Dialogue 71 — Transcript

[00:02] Bob Dobbs: Okay,

[00:02] Bob Dobbs: this is Cameron and Bob once again,

[00:05] Bob Dobbs: and we're analyzing my book on Trump and the tech body,

[00:14] Bob Dobbs: and this is episode 71,

[00:17] Bob Dobbs: and we're at page 149 at the top.

[00:22] Bob Dobbs: But before we go into that,

[00:24] Bob Dobbs: if you were listening to number 70,

[00:29] Bob Dobbs: Cameron came up with this quote about the tactile eye.

[00:32] Bob Dobbs: And he read it,

[00:33] Bob Dobbs: and I wanted to find out where it was,

[00:35] Bob Dobbs: so I looked in Project 69,

[00:38] Bob Dobbs: and eventually I found it,

[00:40] Bob Dobbs: and it's not paginated,

[00:41] Bob Dobbs: that section.

[00:42] Bob Dobbs: So for those who are really into all this and are going to get a copy of Project 69,

[00:49] Bob Dobbs: this is how you find it.

[00:51] Bob Dobbs: You go to a section called General Introduction to the Languages and Grammars of the Media,

[00:58] Bob Dobbs: and then

[00:58] Bob Dobbs: I have written this out.

[00:59] Bob Dobbs: before that section above.

[01:02] Bob Dobbs: There are four pages numbered two to four,

[01:05] Bob Dobbs: but no number one under the title Purpose of Project 69.

[01:10] Bob Dobbs: That is the first section of the book.

[01:12] Bob Dobbs: Then the second section after Purpose of Project 69 are five pages numbered two to five with no number one.

[01:19] Bob Dobbs: One is not numbered.

[01:21] Bob Dobbs: It's called Itinerary and Summary of Activities of the Consultant.

[01:25] Bob Dobbs: Then there is one non-numbered page listing the table of contents for the first two-thirds of the book.

[01:32] Bob Dobbs: titled Materials Developed by Project.

[01:34] Bob Dobbs: Then there is one non-numbered page with only the title,

[01:37] Bob Dobbs: which I already mentioned,

[01:39] Bob Dobbs: General Introduction to the Languages and Grammars of the Media.

[01:42] Bob Dobbs: Then the third section,

[01:43] Bob Dobbs: ten pages,

[01:44] Bob Dobbs: number two to ten,

[01:45] Bob Dobbs: with no number one,

[01:47] Bob Dobbs: with the quotation that Cameron gave us.

[01:51] Bob Dobbs: And

[01:54] Bob Dobbs: Cameron doesn't give the complete page quotation.

[01:57] Bob Dobbs: He breaks it up.

[02:00] Bob Dobbs: If you ever get Project 69,

[02:02] Bob Dobbs: you go to the general introduction to the languages and grammars of the media,

[02:05] Bob Dobbs: and you'll find this section.

[02:09] Bob Dobbs: So then

[02:11] Bob Dobbs: Cameron sent me some samples of words used in some blogs.

[02:17] Bob Dobbs: He uses it,

[02:18] Bob Dobbs: quotes it,

[02:20] Bob Dobbs: but you have to go to

[02:22] Bob Dobbs: Cameron's site to see this stuff.

[02:28] Bob Dobbs: Look up Heinrich Wolflin.

[02:29] Bob Dobbs: W-O-L-F-F-L-I-N in his index and look up any quotes with him.

[02:34] Bob Dobbs: That's where there's an excerpt of the tactile eye.

[02:39] Bob Dobbs: So

[02:40] Bob Dobbs: I just wanted to say that.

[02:42] Bob Dobbs: So now we ended with doing an Arthur Kroker quote on page

[02:48] Bob Dobbs: 149. Let's bring it up here.

[02:55] Bob Dobbs: Do we want to read this long quote again?

[03:00] Bob Dobbs: Or just start tombol.

[03:01] Bob Dobbs: So I talk about it.

[03:02] Bob Dobbs: Let's see what I say.

[03:12] Bob Dobbs: So in the casual talk,

[03:16] Bob Dobbs: I say we don't have five senses anymore.

[03:19] Bob Dobbs: We have

[03:20] Bob Dobbs: 14 or 28.

[03:22] Bob Dobbs: Just a minute.

[03:22] Bob Dobbs: Hello?

[03:24] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,

[03:24] Bob Dobbs: it's still there.

[03:25] Bob Dobbs: It's still recording.

[03:27] Bob Dobbs: We don't have five senses anymore.

[03:29] Bob Dobbs: We have 14 or 28.

[03:30] Bob Dobbs: Consider every little app and device you put into your armamentarium,

[03:36] Bob Dobbs: your reservoir of ammunition,

[03:38] Bob Dobbs: is a collection of new senses because there are all kinds of bodies.

[03:42] Bob Dobbs: Arthur Kroker just talks about plural bodies.

[03:45] Bob Dobbs: He doesn't get into the five types that I came up with.

[03:48] Bob Dobbs: I put it in order.

[03:49] Bob Dobbs: When he's talking about the body,

[03:51] Bob Dobbs: the body has no meaning today.

[03:52] Bob Dobbs: He's writing about the chemical body,

[03:54] Bob Dobbs: but you could project that he's describing the tech body.

[03:58] Bob Dobbs: Kroker then takes his term hauntology,

[04:00] Bob Dobbs: a concept invented by Jacques Derrida,

[04:03] Bob Dobbs: and explores the afterimage with that word,

[04:05] Bob Dobbs: hauntology.

[04:07] Bob Dobbs: By the way,

[04:08] Cameron McEwen: I wonder if that was invented by

[04:11] Cameron McEwen: Derrida, because

[04:14] Cameron McEwen: McLuhan in the

[04:15] Cameron McEwen: 50s was talking about the haunting of different kinds of writing,

[04:22] Cameron McEwen: different media,

[04:24] Cameron McEwen: and

[04:25] Cameron McEwen: Derrida was...

[04:27] Cameron McEwen: paying attention to exploration,

[04:30] Cameron McEwen: so they say.

[04:32] Cameron McEwen: So it's possible that that was one of the things that Derrida got from McLuhan.

[04:38] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,

[04:38] Bob Dobbs: McLuhan used to say the specter of communism,

[04:41] Bob Dobbs: S-P-C-T-R-E,

[04:43] Bob Dobbs: right?

[04:43] Bob Dobbs: That's the ghost.

[04:46] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,

[04:46] Cameron McEwen: well,

[04:46] Cameron McEwen: I mean,

[04:46] Cameron McEwen: that's from Marx.

[04:47] Cameron McEwen: That's directly from Marx.

[04:49] Cameron McEwen: You mean

[04:51] Bob Dobbs: Marx used the word specter?

[04:54] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,

[04:54] Cameron McEwen: the specter of communism.

[04:57] Cameron McEwen: Hmm?

[04:58] Bob Dobbs: Well,

[04:59] Bob Dobbs: the specter of communism means the ghost.

[05:01] Bob Dobbs: Like,

[05:02] Bob Dobbs: in the 20th century,

[05:04] Bob Dobbs: communism becomes a specter.

[05:06] Bob Dobbs: It's a rear-view mirror image.

[05:08] Bob Dobbs: That's how McLuhan,

[05:08] Bob Dobbs: I thought,

[05:09] Bob Dobbs: meant it.

[05:11] Cameron McEwen: Well,

[05:11] Cameron McEwen: but,

[05:12] Cameron McEwen: I mean,

[05:12] Cameron McEwen: that's a direct quotation from Marx.

[05:14] Bob Dobbs: Okay.

[05:15] Cameron McEwen: So,

[05:16] Cameron McEwen: but

[05:17] Cameron McEwen: McLuhan uses the term haunting and haunted.

[05:22] Cameron McEwen: I don't know that he actually uses hauntology.

[05:25] Cameron McEwen: I'd have to look that up.

[05:27] Bob Dobbs: Right.

[05:28] Cameron McEwen: But he uses those terms in the

[05:34] Cameron McEwen: 1950s as a term of art in criticism.

[05:38] Cameron McEwen: And so it would be interesting to know when

[05:43] Cameron McEwen: Derrida started using hauntology.

[05:46] Cameron McEwen: If it was in the

[05:47] Cameron McEwen: 60s, as I suspect,

[05:50] Cameron McEwen: I wouldn't be surprised that that came from McLuhan.

[05:54] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,

[05:55] Bob Dobbs: I looked up hauntology and...

[05:57] Bob Dobbs: Derrida gets credit in Wikipedia,

[06:00] Bob Dobbs: if that's accurate,

[06:02] Bob Dobbs: for making the term.

[06:04] Bob Dobbs: But they may not know what we're talking about.

[06:07] Bob Dobbs: So Spectre isn't necessarily an afterimage.

[06:11] Bob Dobbs: It's just a haunting.

[06:14] Bob Dobbs: Spectre's like a ghost,

[06:15] Bob Dobbs: right?

[06:16] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.

[06:17] Cameron McEwen: I mean,

[06:18] Cameron McEwen: for Marx,

[06:19] Cameron McEwen: it's like a threat.

[06:25] Cameron McEwen: Exactly.

[06:27] Cameron McEwen: I don't know if you know the painting by Goya called

[06:31] Cameron McEwen: El Coloso,

[06:33] Cameron McEwen: which is this huge figure that dominates the landscape,

[06:39] Cameron McEwen: you know,

[06:41] Cameron McEwen: orders of magnitude larger than human beings.

[06:46] Cameron McEwen: And

[06:48] Cameron McEwen: Marx means it in that sense.

[06:50] Bob Dobbs: Okay.

[06:52] Cameron McEwen: Communism is this...

[06:57] Cameron McEwen: specter that is driving people through their fear of it.

[07:05] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,

[07:06] Bob Dobbs: it's looming over the horizon,

[07:07] Bob Dobbs: this giant.

[07:10] Bob Dobbs: Okay,

[07:10] Bob Dobbs: so

[07:11] Bob Dobbs: I'm taking hauntology as an afterimage.

[07:14] Bob Dobbs: The ghost,

[07:15] Bob Dobbs: something is gone,

[07:16] Bob Dobbs: died,

[07:17] Bob Dobbs: and then it's still around.

[07:18] Bob Dobbs: So hauntology,

[07:19] Bob Dobbs: a concept invented by Jacques Derrida,

[07:21] Bob Dobbs: explores the afterimage.

[07:23] Bob Dobbs: My defining of the Android meme as an afterimage is supported by Kroker's quotation.

[07:29] Bob Dobbs: The second phase of the Android meme breaks up the,

[07:31] Bob Dobbs: quote,

[07:32] Bob Dobbs: mythic stages.

[07:34] Bob Dobbs: I've explained that before.

[07:35] Bob Dobbs: It actually becomes more and more,

[07:37] Bob Dobbs: quote,

[07:37] Bob Dobbs: shrunken holeopathic cliché probes,

[07:41] Bob Dobbs: shrunken holeopathic cliché probes,

[07:42] Bob Dobbs: or memes.

[07:45] Bob Dobbs: The second phase,

[07:46] Bob Dobbs: 1986 to 2012,

[07:48] Bob Dobbs: breaks up the mythic stages phase,

[07:50] Bob Dobbs: is outlined in part three above.

[07:52] Bob Dobbs: of the Android meme.

[07:54] Bob Dobbs: So after saying that,

[07:57] Bob Dobbs: let's go back and go through the Kroker quote.

[08:01] Bob Dobbs: I've said this sort of explanation.

[08:03] Bob Dobbs: Let's see if it does map onto this complicated quote.

[08:09] Bob Dobbs: See,

[08:09] Bob Dobbs: what Kroker does,

[08:11] Bob Dobbs: he uses more words than McLuhan to describe the disembodied state,

[08:18] Bob Dobbs: and he kind of makes flesh mix with the

[08:22] Bob Dobbs: the cyber so there's a bit of a flesh coming back and that's what i say is the as the androids mean shrinks the Anthropomorphic Physical comes back um people think you know they got the palm pilot in their hands when this started

[08:39] Bob Dobbs: 25 years ago and they got access to everything and even have other bodies in it but they they're looking at it by holding

[08:50] Bob Dobbs: it in their hand so they think their physical body is back and that leads to all kinds of abuse of the body but they are made up of other bodies that are invisible so the the chemical body that's holding the palm pilot is

[09:08] Bob Dobbs: almost a specter or an afterimage itself it's only one-fifth of the five bodies so that's my way of explaining that

[09:19] Bob Dobbs: People don't know that,

[09:20] Bob Dobbs: yes,

[09:20] Bob Dobbs: they have a sense of mastery of the media,

[09:23] Bob Dobbs: what I call co-anesthetic.

[09:24] Bob Dobbs: They're put into the center,

[09:26] Bob Dobbs: the director's seat of their media layout in Web 2.0,

[09:31] Bob Dobbs: in social media,

[09:33] Bob Dobbs: and they think they've retrieved a physical body.

[09:37] Bob Dobbs: No,

[09:38] Bob Dobbs: a physical body is all they can see.

[09:40] Bob Dobbs: It's inside these other bodies,

[09:42] Bob Dobbs: which is where most of your activity is.

[09:44] Bob Dobbs: So people in their chemical bodies are just staring at their...

[09:49] Bob Dobbs: phone,

[09:50] Bob Dobbs: and that's engagement with the invisible chip body.

[09:54] Bob Dobbs: So they're not aware of that.

[09:56] Bob Dobbs: They're just hypnotized by it.

[09:58] Bob Dobbs: So there's a lot of talk about this stuff now with AI.

[10:02] Bob Dobbs: And another major Internet person is thrown in the towel.

[10:09] Bob Dobbs: Somebody,

[10:10] Bob Dobbs: I forget their name,

[10:11] Bob Dobbs: last week,

[10:12] Bob Dobbs: they said,

[10:12] Bob Dobbs: no,

[10:13] Bob Dobbs: we're in big trouble.

[10:14] Bob Dobbs: Oh,

[10:14] Bob Dobbs: yeah,

[10:14] Bob Dobbs: it was Jack Dorsey,

[10:16] Bob Dobbs: I guess his name,

[10:16] Bob Dobbs: the head of Twitter.

[10:17] Bob Dobbs: He announced the other day that we're all going to end up like the Matrix movie,

[10:21] Bob Dobbs: you know,

[10:21] Bob Dobbs: little strands of nothing inside a Matrix tube.

[10:26] Bob Dobbs: So he's gone paranoid.

[10:28] Bob Dobbs: And they're just all scared shitless of the other four bodies that are invisible because they can't see it.

[10:37] Bob Dobbs: And they see the AI is taking over the chemical body.

[10:42] Bob Dobbs: But they don't know that the AI is taking over the chip body as well and the TV body.

[10:48] Bob Dobbs: So

[10:49] Bob Dobbs: I find the complexity of

[10:51] Bob Dobbs: Kroker's description of this situation is that he's...

[10:56] Bob Dobbs: Standing on the postmodern scholars,

[10:59] Bob Dobbs: Baudrillard and Barth and

[11:00] Bob Dobbs: Deleuze and Guattari and Lyotard and Virilio and all these guys,

[11:04] Bob Dobbs: he's got more words.

[11:05] Bob Dobbs: They're all extensions of McLuhan,

[11:07] Bob Dobbs: but they have their own vocabularies,

[11:09] Bob Dobbs: and they're French,

[11:09] Bob Dobbs: and so they're very wordy.

[11:12] Bob Dobbs: So Kroker sort of appropriates all these guys'

[11:15] Bob Dobbs: words.

[11:15] Bob Dobbs: He's done a book on about six of the postmodern people called The Possessed Individual,

[11:20] Bob Dobbs: and he has these very complex essays about all of them.

[11:23] Bob Dobbs: And he's actually...

[11:24] Bob Dobbs: quote,

[11:24] Bob Dobbs: further out than any of those guys in what he does,

[11:27] Bob Dobbs: because he has a better understanding of McLuhan.

[11:30] Bob Dobbs: So this thing we're going to read is him breaking down the parts of the five bodies,

[11:37] Bob Dobbs: though he just calls it bodies,

[11:39] Bob Dobbs: plural.

[11:40] Bob Dobbs: He hasn't made these categories.

[11:42] Bob Dobbs: This may be a literate projection by me of

[11:46] Bob Dobbs: Aristotelian categorizing of this electronic membrane.

[11:52] Bob Dobbs: So he adds a lot of these words,

[11:55] Bob Dobbs: which people would rather read Kroker,

[12:00] Bob Dobbs: because I like thinking nowadays.

[12:01] Bob Dobbs: I was telling people today on the show how thought is obsolete.

[12:05] Bob Dobbs: So people have spent a lot of time thinking more than they ever did before.

[12:09] Bob Dobbs: They don't get anywhere with it,

[12:11] Bob Dobbs: but they spend a lot of time watching,

[12:14] Bob Dobbs: reading complex essays and stuff,

[12:17] Bob Dobbs: and engaging thought.

[12:20] Bob Dobbs: So the dream of the 19th century...

[12:22] Bob Dobbs: to make the population,

[12:23] Bob Dobbs: the worker,

[12:24] Bob Dobbs: more intelligent,

[12:25] Bob Dobbs: more thoughtful,

[12:26] Bob Dobbs: to think more of concepts,

[12:29] Bob Dobbs: that dream's come true.

[12:31] Bob Dobbs: Just like McLuhan said,

[12:32] Bob Dobbs: you know,

[12:32] Bob Dobbs: the Bauhaus dream of tactile sensorium came in with television.

[12:37] Bob Dobbs: Well,

[12:37] Bob Dobbs: now we've got this living at the speed of thought,

[12:41] Bob Dobbs: so the mind is obsolete.

[12:43] Bob Dobbs: The chemical body mind is obsolete.

[12:45] Bob Dobbs: It can't grasp or visualize what's going on unless you get some kind of sensory training from me.

[12:51] Bob Dobbs: Mr.

[12:51] Bob Dobbs: Joyce,

[12:53] Bob Dobbs: maybe Cameron helps a little,

[12:55] Bob Dobbs: and you then learn how to visualize with the tactile eye what's going on here.

[13:02] Bob Dobbs: So Kroker,

[13:03] Bob Dobbs: he doesn't talk with a tactile eye,

[13:05] Bob Dobbs: he just gets into this fragmented constituents discussion.

[13:11] Bob Dobbs: So let me read this.

[13:13] Cameron McEwen: I think

[13:14] Cameron McEwen: I read this sort of passage in Kroker as him.

[13:19] Cameron McEwen: trying to come to terms with it himself.

[13:22] Cameron McEwen: He's writing with a purpose.

[13:25] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,

[13:25] Bob Dobbs: it's reaching.

[13:26] Bob Dobbs: What is it?

[13:27] Bob Dobbs: His metaphor exceeds his grasp.

[13:30] Bob Dobbs: And he's trying to fill in all the aspects.

[13:33] Bob Dobbs: He just can't make it simple,

[13:35] Bob Dobbs: which McLuhan got to the point where he could see it simply.

[13:38] Bob Dobbs: And I think I get the simple level,

[13:40] Bob Dobbs: the discarnate,

[13:41] Bob Dobbs: especially understanding how this...

[13:42] Cameron McEwen: No,

[13:43] Cameron McEwen: I think that's right.

[13:44] Cameron McEwen: I think that's absolutely right.

[13:46] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,

[13:46] Bob Dobbs: so I don't make this complexity.

[13:50] Bob Dobbs: I used to meet people,

[13:52] Bob Dobbs: Generation Xers in New York,

[13:54] Bob Dobbs: you know,

[13:54] Bob Dobbs: in the

[13:56] Bob Dobbs: 90s, in the 15 years I was there.

[13:59] Bob Dobbs: And a lot of the women,

[14:00] Bob Dobbs: the young students,

[14:01] Bob Dobbs: they loved reading Derrida and Barth and this complex stuff for bedtime reading.

[14:08] Bob Dobbs: So I thought they enjoyed thinking,

[14:10] Bob Dobbs: and so they wanted it to be more complex.

[14:13] Bob Dobbs: If you read McLuhan,

[14:14] Bob Dobbs: you don't understand him,

[14:15] Bob Dobbs: but he's too simple for you.

[14:17] Bob Dobbs: The vocabulary is limited.

[14:18] Bob Dobbs: He's repeating the vocabulary.

[14:20] Bob Dobbs: Remember,

[14:20] Bob Dobbs: people didn't like his later books because they thought he just kept repeating himself.

[14:25] Bob Dobbs: They didn't understand the drilling he was doing.

[14:27] Bob Dobbs: Repetition is drilling.

[14:28] Bob Dobbs: And you have to do that to break through all your conceptual filtering that you're unaware of.

[14:35] Bob Dobbs: So it gets simple after a while when you really get it.

[14:39] Bob Dobbs: But the

[14:41] Bob Dobbs: Generation X and younger,

[14:42] Bob Dobbs: the millennials,

[14:43] Bob Dobbs: they're lost in thought.

[14:45] Bob Dobbs: Because it's got no foundation in any of this stuff,

[14:47] Bob Dobbs: which our dialogues are trying to provide,

[14:49] Bob Dobbs: some basic,

[14:51] Bob Dobbs: accurate replay of what McLuhan did.

[14:55] Bob Dobbs: So let's...

[14:56] Bob Dobbs: Let's read this thing because it does get to the complexity of the tech body.

[15:01] Bob Dobbs: So he says,

[15:03] Bob Dobbs: and we already did it at the end of the last recording,

[15:06] Bob Dobbs: but let's do it again.

[15:09] Bob Dobbs: Okay,

[15:09] Bob Dobbs: so he's describing the situation where an object of viral invasion,

[15:16] Bob Dobbs: so line two.

[15:17] Bob Dobbs: So the qualifying clause for that is at the beginning,

[15:21] Bob Dobbs: circuited by all the flows of power.

[15:25] Bob Dobbs: Pattern by CodeWorks.

[15:27] Cameron McEwen: Where is this one?

[15:29] Cameron McEwen: I thought you were going to read the one on 149.

[15:32] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,

[15:32] Bob Dobbs: this is at the,

[15:33] Bob Dobbs: that's 148.

[15:40] Bob Dobbs: Okay,

[15:40] Bob Dobbs: maybe it's at the bottom of 148.

[15:44] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,

[15:44] Cameron McEwen: part.

[15:44] Cameron McEwen: Oh,

[15:44] Cameron McEwen: I see what you're doing.

[15:45] Cameron McEwen: You've gone back to 148,

[15:48] Bob Dobbs: yeah.

[15:48] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,

[15:48] Bob Dobbs: the first part of the quote.

[15:49] Bob Dobbs: It's a long quote,

[15:50] Bob Dobbs: and I break it up.

[15:51] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.

[15:52] Bob Dobbs: Okay,

[15:53] Bob Dobbs: so.

[15:53] Bob Dobbs: An object of viral invasion,

[15:56] Bob Dobbs: that's the noun so to speak,

[15:58] Bob Dobbs: so the qualifying clause is circuited,

[16:02] Bob Dobbs: so the object is circuited by all the flows of power,

[16:05] Bob Dobbs: patterned by code works,

[16:07] Bob Dobbs: shaped by norms of cultural intelligibility.

[16:11] Bob Dobbs: That's the world of pattern recognition and referencing some computer digital terminology from the technology,

[16:21] Bob Dobbs: you know,

[16:21] Bob Dobbs: like code works.

[16:23] Bob Dobbs: So it's circuited by the flows of power,

[16:25] Bob Dobbs: patterned by code works,

[16:27] Bob Dobbs: shaped by norms of cultural intelligibility,

[16:30] Bob Dobbs: an object of viral invasion with its subjectivity increasingly taking the form of possessed individualism.

[16:38] Bob Dobbs: So we're all being possessed by these media and now bodies.

[16:43] Bob Dobbs: The body,

[16:44] Bob Dobbs: actually I guess the body is the noun.

[16:47] Bob Dobbs: An object of viral invasion is further description of this body.

[16:52] Bob Dobbs: Taking the form of possessed individualism,

[16:54] Bob Dobbs: the body can acquire such a powerful epistemological presence as a universal sign,

[17:00] Bob Dobbs: so they've got to bring in their semiotics,

[17:02] Bob Dobbs: because the bodies that we are or would like to become are themselves increasingly dispersed,

[17:08] Bob Dobbs: intermediated,

[17:09] Bob Dobbs: unfinished,

[17:10] Bob Dobbs: spliced,

[17:10] Bob Dobbs: and straining.

[17:12] Bob Dobbs: Now remember,

[17:13] Bob Dobbs: I have the number 14 for the chip body.

[17:16] Bob Dobbs: One is the Global Membrane merger.

[17:19] Bob Dobbs: We're all in this resonant node.

[17:21] Bob Dobbs: But we spiral off into paranoia,

[17:24] Bob Dobbs: schizophrenia,

[17:25] Bob Dobbs: panic,

[17:26] Bob Dobbs: ecstasy,

[17:27] Bob Dobbs: and hysteria.

[17:28] Bob Dobbs: So that's the splicing,

[17:31] Bob Dobbs: the straining,

[17:32] Bob Dobbs: the unfinished,

[17:32] Bob Dobbs: the dispersed.

[17:34] Bob Dobbs: That's what he's trying to get at here.

[17:36] Bob Dobbs: And I simplified into the number 14,

[17:39] Bob Dobbs: 1 and 4.

[17:42] Bob Dobbs: Clinton was talking about the fragmentation that came in with the printing press.

[17:47] Bob Dobbs: I said,

[17:48] Bob Dobbs: Clinton,

[17:49] Bob Dobbs: during the Bloomberg Galaxy,

[17:51] Bob Dobbs: People did not consider themselves fragmented.

[17:55] Bob Dobbs: The printing press was a new technology.

[17:56] Bob Dobbs: They loved the technology.

[17:58] Bob Dobbs: They wallowed in it.

[18:00] Bob Dobbs: Having these books to read was a whole new experience.

[18:02] Bob Dobbs: It's only when you get into the next water or environment,

[18:05] Bob Dobbs: the electric environment,

[18:07] Bob Dobbs: that you notice the disservice in relation to the electric of the print world.

[18:11] Bob Dobbs: And in retrospect,

[18:13] Bob Dobbs: you say it was fragmented.

[18:15] Bob Dobbs: But people didn't know they were being fragmented by print.

[18:17] Bob Dobbs: They're just wallowing in the...

[18:19] Bob Dobbs: The new joy of extending the visual sense.

[18:22] Bob Dobbs: Do you agree with that?

[18:24] Cameron McEwen: Yes,

[18:24] Cameron McEwen: I do.

[18:25] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.

[18:26] Cameron McEwen: And the people that did talk about fragmentation,

[18:32] Cameron McEwen: people like Shakespeare,

[18:33] Cameron McEwen: were already beyond the Gutenberg Galaxy,

[18:36] Cameron McEwen: and that's why they were able to do it.

[18:38] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,

[18:39] Bob Dobbs: the geniuses,

[18:40] Bob Dobbs: the romantic poets,

[18:41] Bob Dobbs: Coleridge,

[18:42] Bob Dobbs: these eccentric few individuals,

[18:45] Bob Dobbs: they could see the fragmentation as artists.

[18:48] Cameron McEwen: Right.

[18:49] Cameron McEwen: But precisely because they weren't immersed in the Goodberg Galaxy.

[18:55] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,

[18:55] Bob Dobbs: and that's the mystery of the creative process.

[18:57] Bob Dobbs: You don't know what makes a person genius.

[18:59] Bob Dobbs: You don't know why they're not immersed.

[19:00] Bob Dobbs: Why are they detached?

[19:01] Bob Dobbs: Why was McLuhan detached?

[19:02] Bob Dobbs: You know,

[19:03] Bob Dobbs: we don't know why.

[19:06] Bob Dobbs: So

[19:09] Bob Dobbs: I'm glad you agree with that because that was a new insight for Clinton.

[19:13] Bob Dobbs: He's going to have to rewrite his essay or write a new essay after he...

[19:18] Bob Dobbs: presents this one.

[19:19] Bob Dobbs: He says he's putting on the biases of the millennials and using their language.

[19:27] Bob Dobbs: It's very complex what he does.

[19:30] Bob Dobbs: But he says you have to talk that way because that's the way they write and that's what they're interested in,

[19:33] Bob Dobbs: his audience.

[19:34] Bob Dobbs: They want complex,

[19:35] Bob Dobbs: thought-provoking stuff.

[19:37] Bob Dobbs: He says he will get to what I'm talking about later.

[19:41] Bob Dobbs: I said,

[19:41] Bob Dobbs: okay,

[19:42] Bob Dobbs: so you're doing your mechanical bride.

[19:43] Bob Dobbs: He says,

[19:44] Bob Dobbs: yeah,

[19:44] Bob Dobbs: I want to establish my reputation.

[19:47] Bob Dobbs: and get more clicks,

[19:49] Bob Dobbs: and then I'll do the flip that McLuhan did out of Mechanical Bride and say,

[19:53] Bob Dobbs: everything you've been reading the last year,

[19:55] Bob Dobbs: my essays,

[19:56] Bob Dobbs: it's not what I mean.

[19:58] Bob Dobbs: I mean something else.

[19:59] Bob Dobbs: So I was giving him some guidance on how to be meta with his stuff when he gets to that level.

[20:04] Bob Dobbs: Anyways,

[20:04] Bob Dobbs: that's his alibi,

[20:05] Bob Dobbs: that he's putting it on,

[20:07] Bob Dobbs: this complex stuff.

[20:11] Bob Dobbs: It's not as good as Kroker's,

[20:13] Bob Dobbs: because he's trying to explain McLuhan,

[20:14] Bob Dobbs: but do you see?

[20:16] Bob Dobbs: This is ridiculous.

[20:18] Bob Dobbs: This quote we have,

[20:21] Bob Dobbs: it's ridiculous in relation to what we're saying,

[20:24] Bob Dobbs: right?

[20:25] Cameron McEwen: Sure.

[20:27] Bob Dobbs: But for the people who...

[20:29] Cameron McEwen: It's floundering about in the water instead of swimming.

[20:32] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.

[20:32] Bob Dobbs: And he has to bring in all the different POMO disciplines,

[20:37] Bob Dobbs: semiotics,

[20:38] Bob Dobbs: Baudrillard,

[20:39] Bob Dobbs: a little bit of Baudrillard simulation,

[20:41] Bob Dobbs: a little bit of sign talk,

[20:43] Bob Dobbs: a little bit of...

[20:45] Bob Dobbs: Virilio,

[20:46] Bob Dobbs: you know,

[20:47] Bob Dobbs: Total Speed,

[20:50] Bob Dobbs: and Leotard,

[20:51] Bob Dobbs: and the Deleuze and Guattari for mobility.

[20:53] Bob Dobbs: So it's a mixture.

[20:55] Cameron McEwen: Most of,

[20:56] Cameron McEwen: yeah,

[20:56] Cameron McEwen: most of the problems,

[20:58] Cameron McEwen: or I'll put it another way,

[21:01] Cameron McEwen: the reason these things are problems,

[21:05] Cameron McEwen: things like being unfinished,

[21:06] Cameron McEwen: being spliced,

[21:07] Cameron McEwen: being straining,

[21:08] Cameron McEwen: being intermediated,

[21:10] Cameron McEwen: the reason that these things appear to be negative

[21:15] Cameron McEwen: is that they're negative against the standard of the Gutenberg Galaxy.

[21:21] Cameron McEwen: But if on an electric scale,

[21:25] Cameron McEwen: there's nothing wrong with these things at all.

[21:27] Bob Dobbs: That's right.

[21:29] Bob Dobbs: As a matter of fact,

[21:29] Bob Dobbs: you can't stop people wallowing in the latest digital stuff.

[21:33] Bob Dobbs: You can have

[21:35] Bob Dobbs: Steve Jobs and these people panicking,

[21:37] Bob Dobbs: saying,

[21:37] Bob Dobbs: you know,

[21:38] Bob Dobbs: Jack Dorsey,

[21:39] Bob Dobbs: the

[21:40] Bob Dobbs: AI is taking over.

[21:44] Bob Dobbs: But the people,

[21:45] Bob Dobbs: they like new technology,

[21:47] Bob Dobbs: they like new environments.

[21:48] Bob Dobbs: Now,

[21:48] Bob Dobbs: they're sleepwalking through it,

[21:50] Bob Dobbs: but you can't stop them using it.

[21:52] Bob Dobbs: And they don't care about this stuff.

[21:54] Bob Dobbs: They recognize there's some kind of problem and cultural war is going on,

[21:58] Bob Dobbs: and they don't know where it's coming from.

[22:00] Bob Dobbs: They don't know it's coming from the use of their technologies,

[22:03] Bob Dobbs: but they don't care.

[22:04] Bob Dobbs: They just keep using it and buying the latest stuff.

[22:10] Cameron McEwen: Sure.

[22:10] Bob Dobbs: Do you agree with that?

[22:13] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,

[22:13] Cameron McEwen: well,

[22:15] Cameron McEwen: as the generations move along the moving staircase,

[22:22] Cameron McEwen: they don't even know that it's,

[22:24] Cameron McEwen: you know,

[22:25] Cameron McEwen: a new technology or something.

[22:27] Cameron McEwen: It's just the stuff that appears on the shelf at a time when they're interested in what's on the shelf.

[22:35] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,

[22:36] Bob Dobbs: and they just dive into it.

[22:38] Bob Dobbs: They don't know anything about the water.

[22:40] Bob Dobbs: They just start swimming around in it.

[22:42] Bob Dobbs: Okay,

[22:43] Bob Dobbs: so now I like,

[22:45] Bob Dobbs: because I can understand Kroker,

[22:46] Bob Dobbs: I enjoy his complexity because

[22:49] Bob Dobbs: I've read his book on possessed individualism,

[22:52] Bob Dobbs: where he analyzes the guys that he takes each one,

[22:57] Bob Dobbs: Barth,

[22:58] Bob Dobbs: Borrelli on these people,

[22:59] Bob Dobbs: and he does really interesting essays,

[23:02] Bob Dobbs: if you like thinking about them.

[23:05] Bob Dobbs: But what we just read,

[23:06] Bob Dobbs: and that book is called Possessed Individualism,

[23:08] Bob Dobbs: he just used that phrase.

[23:12] Bob Dobbs: It's a mixture of those six people is in this quote.

[23:18] Bob Dobbs: And then he refers to it by saying possessed individualism.

[23:21] Bob Dobbs: He refers to his book.

[23:23] Bob Dobbs: Okay,

[23:23] Bob Dobbs: so then continuing,

[23:25] Bob Dobbs: he says,

[23:27] Bob Dobbs: nothing is as imaginary as a material body.

[23:31] Bob Dobbs: Okay,

[23:31] Bob Dobbs: I agree with that.

[23:32] Bob Dobbs: It's an afterimage.

[23:35] Bob Dobbs: The visual space,

[23:36] Bob Dobbs: the Gutenberg body,

[23:37] Bob Dobbs: is not of any constituent influence anymore.

[23:42] Bob Dobbs: Okay?

[23:45] Bob Dobbs: Constituating influence or constitutive.

[23:49] Bob Dobbs: So again,

[23:49] Bob Dobbs: it's circulating,

[23:50] Bob Dobbs: it's fluid,

[23:51] Bob Dobbs: it's borderless,

[23:53] Bob Dobbs: with no certain boundaries or predetermined history.

[23:56] Bob Dobbs: The body has no meaning today other than its intermediations,

[24:01] Bob Dobbs: no autobiography that does not possess its own hauntology,

[24:05] Bob Dobbs: and certainly no drift that does not leave a trace of its presence.

[24:10] Bob Dobbs: So to me,

[24:11] Bob Dobbs: he's describing the other bodies,

[24:13] Bob Dobbs: not just the material.

[24:14] Bob Dobbs: The other four bodies are material,

[24:17] Bob Dobbs: but they're not visual space.

[24:18] Bob Dobbs: They're acoustic,

[24:19] Bob Dobbs: tactile,

[24:20] Bob Dobbs: proprioceptive,

[24:21] Bob Dobbs: kinetic.

[24:23] Bob Dobbs: Then Corker says,

[24:24] Bob Dobbs: there definitely are codes of gender that can be transgressed only at the price of punishment.

[24:30] Bob Dobbs: So this was written

[24:35] Bob Dobbs: 30 years ago.

[24:36] Bob Dobbs: What is this?

[24:37] Bob Dobbs: Oh,

[24:37] Bob Dobbs: no,

[24:37] Bob Dobbs: 2012.

[24:39] Bob Dobbs: Okay,

[24:39] Bob Dobbs: only 10 years ago.

[24:41] Bob Dobbs: But a lot of the stuff is in his earlier books in the

[24:43] Bob Dobbs: 90s. So he can be given credit for anticipating the transgender wars,

[24:49] Bob Dobbs: because he's getting at it.

[24:52] Bob Dobbs: There definitely are codes of gender that can be transgressed.

[24:54] Bob Dobbs: That's what the trans people do,

[24:57] Bob Dobbs: and only at the price of punishment.

[24:59] Bob Dobbs: There's a lot of backlash about it.

[25:02] Bob Dobbs: But there are always gender drifters who remix,

[25:04] Bob Dobbs: recombine,

[25:05] Bob Dobbs: and resplice the codes of gender performance.

[25:08] Bob Dobbs: So he says codes of gender performance.

[25:11] Bob Dobbs: I have a broader category.

[25:13] Bob Dobbs: I say astro.

[25:15] Bob Dobbs: TV and chip body and the mystery body,

[25:19] Bob Dobbs: you know,

[25:19] Bob Dobbs: instead of codes of gender performance.

[25:23] Bob Dobbs: He still has references to the chemical body in there.

[25:27] Cameron McEwen: Correct.

[25:28] Cameron McEwen: Correct.

[25:29] Cameron McEwen: And so he's taking something material and trying to find a code in terms of that materiality.

[25:42] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.

[25:42] Cameron McEwen: Whereas what you do is you...

[25:45] Cameron McEwen: start with a recognized pattern and try to show that the material around us,

[25:55] Cameron McEwen: and material understood not just as a material body,

[25:59] Cameron McEwen: but in terms of ethereal bodies and wave bodies,

[26:03] Cameron McEwen: and every conceivable type of body comes down to your categories.

[26:08] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.

[26:08] Cameron McEwen: So those are two different ways of proceeding.

[26:11] Cameron McEwen: He's proceeding towards the categories.

[26:14] Cameron McEwen: And you're proceeding from the category.

[26:19] Bob Dobbs: It's a bit different.

[26:21] Bob Dobbs: Yes,

[26:22] Bob Dobbs: good way to say that.

[26:23] Bob Dobbs: There certainly is a disciplinary regime of sexuality,

[26:27] Bob Dobbs: but there are also sex code drifters who make of their own sexual assignment an opportunity to transgress the codes,

[26:35] Bob Dobbs: to refuse the normative,

[26:37] Bob Dobbs: to overcome the predetermined.

[26:39] Bob Dobbs: Now,

[26:39] Bob Dobbs: McLuhan says in 67,

[26:41] Bob Dobbs: we're going to witness a lot more bizarre forms.

[26:43] Bob Dobbs: bizarre fads,

[26:44] Bob Dobbs: just bizarreness.

[26:46] Bob Dobbs: That's what the bizarreness is,

[26:49] Bob Dobbs: the chemical body trying to figure out how to absorb the discarnate state,

[26:54] Bob Dobbs: the chip body and the TV body,

[26:57] Bob Dobbs: and the digital landscapes before they become bodies,

[27:00] Bob Dobbs: which is the shrinking of the digital landscapes.

[27:03] Bob Dobbs: So the normal rebellion by people,

[27:09] Bob Dobbs: in

[27:09] Bob Dobbs: Gutenberg chemical body terms,

[27:12] Bob Dobbs: McLuhan would...

[27:14] Bob Dobbs: mock,

[27:15] Bob Dobbs: categorized in mock,

[27:17] Bob Dobbs: but Kroker celebrates it,

[27:20] Bob Dobbs: kind of celebrates this transgression.

[27:24] Bob Dobbs: All right.

[27:25] Bob Dobbs: So he says all these different fads are refusing the normative,

[27:32] Bob Dobbs: overcoming the predetermined,

[27:34] Bob Dobbs: which is the autonomy that the chip body brings in,

[27:37] Bob Dobbs: the autonomy from the Gutenberg structure,

[27:41] Bob Dobbs: what...

[27:42] Bob Dobbs: a deal called the co-anesthesia,

[27:46] Bob Dobbs: and opportunity to transgress the codes.

[27:50] Bob Dobbs: So the postmodern

[27:52] Bob Dobbs: Generation X and younger rebels,

[27:55] Bob Dobbs: they like this idea of their chemical bodies rebelling against some kind of possession,

[27:59] Bob Dobbs: right?

[28:01] Bob Dobbs: And they think they've got to act out this resistance.

[28:04] Bob Dobbs: So then he goes into that in the next sentence.

[28:07] Bob Dobbs: Against class inequities,

[28:09] Bob Dobbs: keep the class war going.

[28:11] Bob Dobbs: Against class inequities burned into disciplined laboring bodies,

[28:15] Bob Dobbs: there are class drifters who make of their own protesting,

[28:19] Bob Dobbs: rebelling,

[28:19] Bob Dobbs: insurgent bodies a marker of the struggle for freedom.

[28:23] Bob Dobbs: See,

[28:23] Bob Dobbs: that's rearview mirror.

[28:24] Bob Dobbs: That's the Gutenberg afterimage of so many groups and tribes and individuals pissed off at the

[28:33] Bob Dobbs: WEF. It's going to swallow them up,

[28:35] Bob Dobbs: the digital economy,

[28:36] Bob Dobbs: you know.

[28:38] Bob Dobbs: They're reacting.

[28:39] Bob Dobbs: They're not acting.

[28:41] Bob Dobbs: as McLuhan would say.

[28:42] Bob Dobbs: He used to say William Burroughs reacts.

[28:44] Bob Dobbs: He doesn't act.

[28:46] Bob Dobbs: He doesn't include the effects and causes in his writing.

[28:50] Bob Dobbs: He just sort of lays out the effects and the symptoms.

[28:54] Bob Dobbs: So while the age of specialization resulted in the definitive separation of the senses,

[28:59] Bob Dobbs: Body Drift,

[29:01] Bob Dobbs: which is moving towards my five bodies,

[29:03] Bob Dobbs: begins with a grand unification of the human sensorium.

[29:07] Bob Dobbs: Yet,

[29:08] Bob Dobbs: there's a grand unification.

[29:09] Bob Dobbs: I would say of the Anthropomorphic Physical,

[29:12] Bob Dobbs: which is us projecting some kind of human separateness from the machines and from animals as a separate glorified situation,

[29:22] Bob Dobbs: while at the same time you're merging.

[29:25] Bob Dobbs: So Kroker's caught between the merger and the resistance.

[29:30] Bob Dobbs: And so he calls it a grand unification of the human sensorium.

[29:33] Bob Dobbs: Well,

[29:34] Bob Dobbs: it's so grand,

[29:35] Bob Dobbs: everybody's uptight and strained and overdetermined.

[29:39] Bob Dobbs: and fighting what's going on around us,

[29:43] Bob Dobbs: what's going on inside us with this invasion.

[29:46] Bob Dobbs: So it's a good inventory of

[29:50] Bob Dobbs: Gutenberg responses,

[29:52] Bob Dobbs: you would say,

[29:53] Bob Dobbs: to the situation we have.

[29:56] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.

[29:57] Cameron McEwen: I would just note that

[29:59] Cameron McEwen: McLuhan would say that all of this writing is itself an effect.

[30:05] Cameron McEwen: So Kroker's writing about effects.

[30:08] Cameron McEwen: But he,

[30:09] Cameron McEwen: at least in this quotation and in other stuff that I know of him,

[30:14] Cameron McEwen: but I don't know a hell of a lot about Kroker.

[30:17] Cameron McEwen: But what's needed here is,

[30:22] Cameron McEwen: from McLuhan's point of view,

[30:23] Cameron McEwen: is to see these confusions and these difficulties as an effect.

[30:29] Cameron McEwen: And in order to get beyond that effect,

[30:34] Cameron McEwen: what's needed is...

[30:37] Cameron McEwen: to understand where the effect is coming from.

[30:41] Cameron McEwen: And for McLuhan,

[30:42] Cameron McEwen: it comes from the transition between the Gutenberg Galaxy and the

[30:48] Cameron McEwen: Electric Age.

[30:49] Bob Dobbs: The Marconi Galaxy.

[30:51] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,

[30:52] Cameron McEwen: yeah,

[30:52] Cameron McEwen: exactly.

[30:53] Bob Dobbs: Now,

[30:54] Bob Dobbs: the digital,

[30:56] Bob Dobbs: quote,

[30:56] Bob Dobbs: fragmentation,

[30:58] Bob Dobbs: or they like to say the human now is atomized.

[31:05] Bob Dobbs: That's a cliche people use,

[31:07] Bob Dobbs: atomized.

[31:08] Bob Dobbs: So to project again the Gutenberg fragmentation,

[31:11] Bob Dobbs: we are more fused and not fragmented in actual reality,

[31:16] Bob Dobbs: the way we live.

[31:18] Bob Dobbs: It's only the older media see us as fragmented because they're fragmented in relation to it.

[31:25] Bob Dobbs: They're visual space.

[31:26] Bob Dobbs: They can't see the post-visual space situation,

[31:30] Bob Dobbs: which is quite a resonant node merger.

[31:34] Bob Dobbs: convergence of all kinds of factors.

[31:38] Bob Dobbs: So you have this complex Kroker quote.

[31:42] Bob Dobbs: And then my commentary in the blue part,

[31:45] Bob Dobbs: we did that.

[31:47] Bob Dobbs: So we're now trying to head to the tech body.

[31:51] Bob Dobbs: So let's see,

[31:54] Bob Dobbs: what do I say about the first phase?

[31:56] Bob Dobbs: Because I have here the second phase.

[31:58] Bob Dobbs: I want to just see if I've got the phrase first phase somewhere that it'll go to.

[32:06] Cameron McEwen: You indicate that it's part three.

[32:09] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.

[32:10] Bob Dobbs: The first phase,

[32:11] Bob Dobbs: 1960 to 1985,

[32:13] Bob Dobbs: is presented in my article,

[32:15] Bob Dobbs: Cloning ESP,

[32:16] Bob Dobbs: which I wrote in 99.

[32:19] Bob Dobbs: That's page,

[32:20] Bob Dobbs: what page is that on?

[32:24] Bob Dobbs: That's on page,

[32:31] Bob Dobbs: looks like

[32:33] Bob Dobbs: 109.

[32:36] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,

[32:37] Cameron McEwen: that's where section three starts.

[32:39] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,

[32:40] Bob Dobbs: phase one.

[32:42] Bob Dobbs: And so I put ridiculous years there,

[32:44] Bob Dobbs: but I've got to use fucking visual space to these visual space people.

[32:49] Bob Dobbs: The first phase,

[32:50] Bob Dobbs: 1960-1985,

[32:52] Bob Dobbs: is presented in my article,

[32:53] Bob Dobbs: Cloning ESP.

[32:55] Bob Dobbs: Then,

[32:56] Bob Dobbs: now we're down

[32:58] Bob Dobbs: 40 pages later to phase two.

[33:03] Bob Dobbs: Let me get back there.

[33:10] Bob Dobbs: So it was 85,

[33:13] Bob Dobbs: no,

[33:14] Bob Dobbs: 60 to 85.

[33:15] Bob Dobbs: The second phase is 86 to 2012,

[33:19] Bob Dobbs: which is just an iconic date.

[33:22] Bob Dobbs: Everybody thought the world was going to end in 2012,

[33:24] Bob Dobbs: at least those that were in the

[33:26] Bob Dobbs: Inca

[33:28] Bob Dobbs: Aztec mythology,

[33:29] Bob Dobbs: Inca mythology.

[33:31] Bob Dobbs: Remember that?

[33:32] Bob Dobbs: 2012 was the end of the

[33:37] Bob Dobbs: Mayan calendar.

[33:39] Bob Dobbs: So...

[33:39] Bob Dobbs: The second phase,

[33:40] Bob Dobbs: 86 to 2012,

[33:42] Bob Dobbs: breaks up the mythic stages phase,

[33:44] Bob Dobbs: as outlined in part three above,

[33:46] Bob Dobbs: of the Android meme.

[33:47] Bob Dobbs: So two phases of the Android meme.

[33:50] Bob Dobbs: Then I quote from my memoir,

[33:52] Bob Dobbs: Prince Charles,

[33:53] Bob Dobbs: in 1987,

[33:57] Bob Dobbs: where I lay out these different phases of ground.

[34:02] Bob Dobbs: So I just directly quote from that.

[34:04] Bob Dobbs: So let's read that.

[34:06] Bob Dobbs: After the bottom-up ground phase between...

[34:09] Cameron McEwen: Did you stay on 109 or did you come back to...

[34:11] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,

[34:12] Bob Dobbs: I'm on 150.

[34:13] Cameron McEwen: 150,

[34:15] Cameron McEwen: okay.

[34:16] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,

[34:17] Bob Dobbs: we've done the Kroker quote,

[34:19] Bob Dobbs: then my commentary,

[34:21] Bob Dobbs: so that's 149 into 150,

[34:22] Bob Dobbs: then the second phase,

[34:24] Bob Dobbs: and now I'm going to try to describe how we get to the second phase,

[34:27] Bob Dobbs: which is all towards trying to get to the understanding the tech body.

[34:32] Bob Dobbs: How does that go beyond the Android meme?

[34:35] Bob Dobbs: So I say...

[34:36] Bob Dobbs: After the bottom-up ground phase versus top-down,

[34:42] Bob Dobbs: and this is my Tiny Note chart,

[34:44] Bob Dobbs: after the bottom-up ground phase between 45 and 60,

[34:48] Bob Dobbs: the peruser slash lurker will notice that the next phase of the ongoing evolution of the bottom-up ground is called holeopathic cliche probes.

[34:58] Bob Dobbs: And I have holeopathic in quotes as a word that combines the two processes of homeopathy and the hologram.

[35:05] Bob Dobbs: You know,

[35:05] Bob Dobbs: the hologram is an effect of the satellite,

[35:07] Bob Dobbs: the global theater,

[35:09] Bob Dobbs: but with digital technology,

[35:10] Bob Dobbs: it keeps shrinking.

[35:11] Bob Dobbs: Like homeopathy,

[35:12] Bob Dobbs: it gets tinier and tinier,

[35:14] Bob Dobbs: and...

[35:15] Bob Dobbs: less of the memory or the memory is all that's left.

[35:19] Bob Dobbs: Memory is a way of saying the digital space.

[35:22] Bob Dobbs: It's just memory or memes.

[35:26] Bob Dobbs: But

[35:27] Bob Dobbs: I wouldn't limit that.

[35:28] Bob Dobbs: But it helps people understand that you take the fact that homeopathy supposedly preserves the memory of the substance,

[35:35] Bob Dobbs: even though the rest of the substance is gone.

[35:39] Bob Dobbs: So this memory,

[35:42] Bob Dobbs: or what McLuhan would say,

[35:44] Bob Dobbs: endless retrievals.

[35:45] Bob Dobbs: What he called the repertoire of the global theater was to replay anything from the past.

[35:51] Bob Dobbs: Remember that statement?

[35:54] Cameron McEwen: Sure.

[35:55] Cameron McEwen: But I would point out that the past there isn't only the chronological past.

[36:02] Bob Dobbs: Right.

[36:03] Cameron McEwen: It's also the past of the genesis of experience.

[36:06] Cameron McEwen: And the genesis of experience is always made from what can be called the memory theater.

[36:12] Cameron McEwen: And it's a kind of...

[36:14] Cameron McEwen: selection of a role.

[36:18] Bob Dobbs: Well,

[36:18] Bob Dobbs: the past is made up of different technological situations or ratios of sensory development.

[36:26] Bob Dobbs: You have the pre-Homer phase,

[36:27] Bob Dobbs: then the Greek phase,

[36:30] Bob Dobbs: then the Dark Ages because the print,

[36:33] Bob Dobbs: the alphabet has diminished a bit in the West,

[36:36] Bob Dobbs: and then you have the print phase,

[36:40] Bob Dobbs: then the kinetic machine phase,

[36:42] Bob Dobbs: then the electric phase.

[36:43] Cameron McEwen: all of these are also all at once.

[36:46] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.

[36:47] Cameron McEwen: Right?

[36:47] Cameron McEwen: So there's a replay of the chronological past,

[36:54] Cameron McEwen: but whatever experience is generated is a replay of a possibility in the memory theater.

[37:05] Cameron McEwen: And that possibility...

[37:09] Cameron McEwen: Pardon me?

[37:09] Bob Dobbs: In the present.

[37:11] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,

[37:11] Cameron McEwen: absolutely.

[37:13] Cameron McEwen: But just as you said,

[37:15] Cameron McEwen: every one of those possibilities is a sensory ratio.

[37:19] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.

[37:20] Cameron McEwen: And,

[37:21] Cameron McEwen: you know,

[37:21] Cameron McEwen: that's sort of McLuhan's gig right there.

[37:24] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,

[37:24] Bob Dobbs: and you can see the chemical elements,

[37:26] Bob Dobbs: but now there's media elements of each ratio set up.

[37:30] Cameron McEwen: Correct.

[37:31] Bob Dobbs: So,

[37:32] Bob Dobbs: Gutenberg is like carbon.

[37:34] Bob Dobbs: Marconi is potassium.

[37:38] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,

[37:38] Cameron McEwen: exactly.

[37:41] Bob Dobbs: Okay,

[37:41] Bob Dobbs: so I say,

[37:42] Bob Dobbs: since the technologies of the industrial and subsequent electronic revolutions had been subsumed by the burgeoning television environment after 1945,

[37:52] Bob Dobbs: one might as well say that,

[37:53] Bob Dobbs: quote,

[37:54] Bob Dobbs: everything had disappeared.

[37:55] Bob Dobbs: That means the end of visual space.

[37:58] Bob Dobbs: But quite dramatic.

[38:00] Bob Dobbs: However,

[38:00] Bob Dobbs: now,

[38:00] Bob Dobbs: Bucky Fuller used to talk about this.

[38:02] Bob Dobbs: If you read him,

[38:03] Bob Dobbs: he talks about,

[38:03] Bob Dobbs: well,

[38:04] Bob Dobbs: in the 20th century,

[38:04] Bob Dobbs: we moved into the invisible electric world.

[38:08] Bob Dobbs: He was writing this,

[38:09] Bob Dobbs: I think,

[38:09] Bob Dobbs: before McLuhan.

[38:10] Bob Dobbs: maybe in the 30s or

[38:12] Bob Dobbs: 40s. And McLuhan tips the hat to Bucky Fuller,

[38:15] Bob Dobbs: but he made it not so

[38:20] Bob Dobbs: 19th century-minded like Bucky did.

[38:22] Bob Dobbs: But Bucky did talk about things we moved into the invisible realm.

[38:28] Bob Dobbs: Do you know that he said that?

[38:30] Cameron McEwen: Sure.

[38:30] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.

[38:31] Cameron McEwen: Sure.

[38:32] Cameron McEwen: He and Toynbee were both talking about etherealization.

[38:36] Bob Dobbs: Yes.

[38:37] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,

[38:38] Cameron McEwen: sure.

[38:39] Bob Dobbs: Etherealization.

[38:41] Bob Dobbs: Okay,

[38:42] Bob Dobbs: however,

[38:42] Bob Dobbs: in homeopathic terms,

[38:44] Bob Dobbs: one should understand that everything,

[38:45] Bob Dobbs: or at least the memory of everything,

[38:48] Bob Dobbs: was being diluted to ever more invisible and inaudible but potent effect.

[38:53] Bob Dobbs: This is a proven homeopathic principle.

[38:56] Bob Dobbs: C.

[38:57] Bob Dobbs: Benveniste,

[38:57] Bob Dobbs: now he's a scientist who proved in 88,

[39:01] Bob Dobbs: he had his article written in Nature magazine,

[39:04] Bob Dobbs: proved his homeopathic laboratory work,

[39:08] Bob Dobbs: and then ran...

[39:09] Bob Dobbs: The Amazing Randi and the skeptics raided his lab,

[39:13] Bob Dobbs: fucking beat it up,

[39:14] Bob Dobbs: and were disgraceful.

[39:16] Bob Dobbs: But they convinced Nature magazine to turn against Benveniste.

[39:22] Bob Dobbs: So when I met Baudrillard in 1996 in New York through Severo Lutrange,

[39:29] Bob Dobbs: he had quoted Benveniste.

[39:31] Bob Dobbs: So I bring it up,

[39:32] Bob Dobbs: and I tell him that my wife is in regular contact with Benveniste because

[39:39] Bob Dobbs: The mirror technology we were doing in the

[39:41] Bob Dobbs: 90s, which was pretty avant-garde technology that could treat AIDS successfully,

[39:46] Bob Dobbs: Benveniste understood it because it was based on homeopathy and he celebrated this technology.

[39:51] Bob Dobbs: So he was quite impressed that we were friends of Benveniste and he asked me to pass on a hello to him because he hadn't talked to him in a few years.

[40:01] Bob Dobbs: So that's a little anecdote about Baudrillard and Benveniste because

[40:05] Bob Dobbs: Baudrillard used the homeopathic metaphor a lot in his writings.

[40:10] Cameron McEwen: Where was then Venice?

[40:12] Bob Dobbs: In

[40:13] Bob Dobbs: Paris, I think.

[40:15] Bob Dobbs: I think it was French.

[40:18] Bob Dobbs: Well,

[40:18] Cameron McEwen: it's a French name for sure.

[40:20] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,

[40:20] Bob Dobbs: let me just wiki him and see what they say his chemical body locations are.

[40:32] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,

[40:33] Bob Dobbs: there it is.

[40:33] Bob Dobbs: Okay,

[40:35] Bob Dobbs: so Benveniste,

[40:39] Bob Dobbs: Jacques Benveniste.

[40:43] Bob Dobbs: So he was born in 1935 and lived until 2004.

[40:47] Bob Dobbs: So he dies,

[40:48] Bob Dobbs: you know,

[40:49] Bob Dobbs: eight years after I'm talking to Beaujard about him.

[40:52] Bob Dobbs: He was a French immunologist born in Paris.

[40:54] Bob Dobbs: In 1979,

[40:56] Bob Dobbs: he published a well-known paper on the structure of platelet activating factor and its relationship with histamine.

[41:02] Bob Dobbs: He was head of allergy and inflammation immunology at the French biomedical research agency

[41:09] Bob Dobbs: INSERM,

[41:10] Bob Dobbs: I-N-S-E-R-M.

[41:12] Bob Dobbs: In 1988,

[41:14] Bob Dobbs: Benveniste and colleagues published a paper in Nature magazine describing the action of very high dilutions of anti-IgE antibody on the degranulation of human basophils,

[41:26] Bob Dobbs: findings that seem to support the concept of homeopathy.

[41:29] Bob Dobbs: After the article was published,

[41:30] Bob Dobbs: a follow-up investigation was set up by a team called,

[41:34] Bob Dobbs: including John Maddox,

[41:36] Bob Dobbs: James Randi,

[41:37] Bob Dobbs: that's Amazing Randi,

[41:38] Bob Dobbs: and Walter Stewart.

[41:39] Bob Dobbs: Do you know about the skeptics?

[41:40] Bob Dobbs: They're the skeptics.

[41:41] Bob Dobbs: and they have Skeptic magazine.

[41:44] Bob Dobbs: They attack anything new agey or ethereal or

[41:48] Bob Dobbs: McLuhan probably.

[41:51] Bob Dobbs: So those three guys did this fraudulent attack on Benveniste.

[41:56] Bob Dobbs: So it says,

[41:58] Bob Dobbs: with the cooperation of Benveniste's own team,

[42:01] Bob Dobbs: this group failed to replicate the original results,

[42:04] Bob Dobbs: and subsequent investigations did not support Benveniste's findings.

[42:09] Bob Dobbs: Benveniste refused to retract.

[42:11] Bob Dobbs: damaging his reputation and forcing him to fund research himself,

[42:15] Bob Dobbs: as external sources of funding were withdrawn.

[42:17] Bob Dobbs: In 1997,

[42:19] Bob Dobbs: he founded the company Digibio to,

[42:22] Bob Dobbs: quote,

[42:22] Bob Dobbs: develop and commercialize applications of digital biology,

[42:27] Bob Dobbs: unquote.

[42:28] Bob Dobbs: And then he dies.

[42:29] Bob Dobbs: He dies in 2004 in Paris following heart surgery.

[42:32] Bob Dobbs: He should have fucking come over and hung out with Carolyn.

[42:36] Bob Dobbs: She would have used the mirror on him,

[42:37] Bob Dobbs: and he wouldn't have to have done heart surgery.

[42:40] Bob Dobbs: But that's...

[42:42] Bob Dobbs: over now.

[42:43] Bob Dobbs: So that's who he is.

[42:45] Bob Dobbs: Interesting guy.

[42:47] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.

[42:48] Bob Dobbs: So you hadn't heard of him before?

[42:50] Cameron McEwen: No.

[42:51] Bob Dobbs: Okay,

[42:51] Bob Dobbs: so there's something for the McLuhanites to learn about,

[42:55] Bob Dobbs: all about Mr.

[42:55] Bob Dobbs: Benveniste.

[42:56] Bob Dobbs: So I say this is a proven homeopathic principle,

[42:59] Bob Dobbs: see Benveniste.

[43:00] Bob Dobbs: So we supported Benveniste because we knew with our own homeopathic device that it worked.

[43:06] Bob Dobbs: And we had a study that proved that it removed

[43:09] Bob Dobbs: AIDS from people.

[43:11] Bob Dobbs: And Liz Taylor and Michael Jordan got in and supported it,

[43:14] Bob Dobbs: and Malcolm Forbes,

[43:14] Bob Dobbs: but then he died,

[43:15] Bob Dobbs: and then it all fell apart.

[43:17] Bob Dobbs: So we had to do the second study.

[43:19] Bob Dobbs: That's when Carolyn was brought in.

[43:21] Bob Dobbs: And then the guy who invented this thing,

[43:25] Bob Dobbs: Walter Fischman,

[43:26] Bob Dobbs: he died in August 1993.

[43:28] Bob Dobbs: So Carolyn and his widow had clinics for it through 94,

[43:36] Bob Dobbs: 95,

[43:36] Bob Dobbs: 96,

[43:37] Bob Dobbs: 97.

[43:37] Bob Dobbs: And Cuomo,

[43:39] Bob Dobbs: Mario Cuomo,

[43:39] Bob Dobbs: the governor,

[43:40] Bob Dobbs: he...

[43:41] Bob Dobbs: He kind of allowed new aid or alternative medicine room to work and not be harassed by the AMA in the

[43:48] Bob Dobbs: 90s, starting in 94.

[43:50] Bob Dobbs: But by 97,

[43:51] Bob Dobbs: the mafia-like AMA was starting to poke around and harass people in New York State.

[43:58] Bob Dobbs: So they started to harass

[44:00] Bob Dobbs: Carolyn and

[44:01] Bob Dobbs: Walter's widow to the point where they couldn't do it anymore.

[44:05] Bob Dobbs: They couldn't ship it to any other states,

[44:07] Bob Dobbs: so they had to stop.

[44:09] Bob Dobbs: So that led to Carolyn.

[44:12] Bob Dobbs: studying

[44:13] Bob Dobbs: Chinese medicine while that was in abeyance.

[44:16] Bob Dobbs: She always thought she'd go back to it when things loosened up again.

[44:23] Bob Dobbs: So she did some

[44:25] Bob Dobbs: Chinese studies,

[44:26] Bob Dobbs: and then she wanted to do a book on this new Chinese discipline.

[44:34] Bob Dobbs: She went to a random house,

[44:35] Bob Dobbs: and they said,

[44:36] Bob Dobbs: No,

[44:36] Bob Dobbs: we just did a book on Chinese medicine,

[44:38] Bob Dobbs: but there's this thing about magnesium you should look at.

[44:42] Bob Dobbs: And we would like someone to do a book on magnesium.

[44:43] Bob Dobbs: So she didn't know anything about magnesium.

[44:46] Bob Dobbs: And so she got in touch with a scientist who had done

[44:50] Bob Dobbs: 25 years of studies,

[44:52] Bob Dobbs: hundreds of studies,

[44:53] Bob Dobbs: proved all this stuff,

[44:53] Bob Dobbs: and nobody paid attention.

[44:55] Bob Dobbs: She met them.

[44:57] Bob Dobbs: They were working with another woman,

[44:59] Bob Dobbs: but she was slower at writing her book.

[45:01] Bob Dobbs: So Carol,

[45:03] Bob Dobbs: they gave the information to her.

[45:04] Bob Dobbs: So she wrote the book and got it out there before the other person.

[45:08] Bob Dobbs: And it became,

[45:09] Bob Dobbs: over the years,

[45:09] Bob Dobbs: a bestseller.

[45:11] Bob Dobbs: And then she found a guy to make magnesium at a tiny pico level called...

[45:22] Bob Dobbs: What's the word?

[45:23] Bob Dobbs: Pico potassium,

[45:24] Bob Dobbs: pico silver,

[45:25] Bob Dobbs: pico magnesium.

[45:28] Bob Dobbs: This very tiny level found a lab that would do it.

[45:30] Bob Dobbs: That was in 2012,

[45:33] Bob Dobbs: 2014.

[45:35] Bob Dobbs: And we started offering it to people and it had miraculous effects.

[45:38] Cameron McEwen: What does the word pico refer to?

[45:44] Bob Dobbs: For people in general jargon it is an alternative word to nano.

[45:48] Bob Dobbs: No,

[45:49] Cameron McEwen: no,

[45:49] Cameron McEwen: I understand the word.

[45:51] Cameron McEwen: I understand what the word means.

[45:54] Cameron McEwen: I mean,

[45:54] Cameron McEwen: when it's used for,

[45:58] Cameron McEwen: for example,

[45:58] Cameron McEwen: picomagnesium,

[46:00] Cameron McEwen: what does it refer to?

[46:02] Cameron McEwen: The balancing of the ions.

[46:05] Cameron McEwen: No,

[46:05] Bob Dobbs: here's what she says.

[46:06] Bob Dobbs: It's the balancing of ions.

[46:09] Bob Dobbs: She found a way to make something real tiny on a pico level,

[46:14] Bob Dobbs: but it's a balance of the ions.

[46:17] Bob Dobbs: It's ionized magnesium,

[46:19] Bob Dobbs: basically.

[46:21] Bob Dobbs: You'd have to get her to explain that a little more.

[46:24] Bob Dobbs: But that's the term they use.

[46:25] Bob Dobbs: It's ionized.

[46:27] Bob Dobbs: That balances the situation.

[46:29] Bob Dobbs: And so the guy knew that,

[46:31] Bob Dobbs: and he made a,

[46:33] Bob Dobbs: this is all hidden,

[46:34] Bob Dobbs: what he does.

[46:35] Bob Dobbs: Nobody knows about it,

[46:36] Bob Dobbs: but he makes our product.

[46:41] Bob Dobbs: Only he can make it.

[46:44] Bob Dobbs: So basically,

[46:44] Bob Dobbs: it's magnesium that's so tiny,

[46:46] Bob Dobbs: it gets into the cells.

[46:49] Bob Dobbs: Regular magnesium.

[46:50] Bob Dobbs: It's too big.

[46:51] Bob Dobbs: It doesn't get into the cells,

[46:52] Bob Dobbs: and it causes diarrhea and all that.

[46:55] Bob Dobbs: And so people can't use it.

[46:57] Bob Dobbs: But if you take magnesium,

[46:58] Bob Dobbs: which

[46:59] Bob Dobbs: 1,000 enzyme systems in the body need,

[47:02] Bob Dobbs: it's as important as blood or oxygen.

[47:06] Bob Dobbs: So magnesium is the key mineral.

[47:08] Bob Dobbs: And you can affect all kinds of ailments.

[47:10] Bob Dobbs: There's like 65 ailments that are actually magnesium deficiency,

[47:14] Bob Dobbs: counts tabulated.

[47:17] Bob Dobbs: They have all these medical symptoms and medical Latin names.

[47:20] Bob Dobbs: but they're not what the science says they are.

[47:23] Bob Dobbs: They're just magnesium deficiency.

[47:25] Bob Dobbs: So if you know that and you use our tiny magnesium that gets into cells,

[47:30] Bob Dobbs: which had never happened before,

[47:31] Bob Dobbs: you have miraculous results.

[47:37] Bob Dobbs: Like,

[47:38] Bob Dobbs: let me read you an example.

[47:40] Bob Dobbs: We get these emails all the time.

[47:42] Bob Dobbs: So there's a person I met outside of Carolyn's practice.

[47:50] Bob Dobbs: that she was overweight and had all kinds of medical problems.

[47:56] Bob Dobbs: So

[47:57] Bob Dobbs: I said,

[47:59] Bob Dobbs: take our product.

[48:00] Bob Dobbs: So I sent her some samples.

[48:02] Bob Dobbs: So let me see if I can find it here.

[48:14] Bob Dobbs: So she's only been doing it for a couple of months.

[48:24] Bob Dobbs: This is second here.

[48:33] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,

[48:33] Bob Dobbs: here it is.

[48:35] Bob Dobbs: She wrote to me this yesterday.

[48:38] Bob Dobbs: So she's dealing with me and one of the support team at the warehouse where the stuff is distributed from in

[48:48] Bob Dobbs: North Carolina.

[48:50] Bob Dobbs: So Julie is a very good...

[48:55] Bob Dobbs: consultant that clients,

[48:57] Bob Dobbs: people who buy the products,

[48:58] Bob Dobbs: they don't understand it or they wonder about it,

[49:01] Bob Dobbs: so they talk to Julie.

[49:02] Bob Dobbs: So this person's talking to Julie.

[49:04] Bob Dobbs: So she writes,

[49:05] Bob Dobbs: Dear Bob,

[49:06] Bob Dobbs: I hope all is well with you and yours.

[49:08] Bob Dobbs: Jess got off the phone with Julie,

[49:10] Bob Dobbs: and she is still awesome.

[49:13] Bob Dobbs: And she shared photos from her recent trip.

[49:15] Bob Dobbs: She actually just came to Maui a couple weeks ago and met me and Carolyn.

[49:19] Bob Dobbs: She knew Carolyn because

[49:20] Bob Dobbs: Carolyn had visited in North Carolina,

[49:21] Bob Dobbs: but she never met me.

[49:23] Bob Dobbs: And she says,

[49:24] Bob Dobbs: you look absolutely handsome in your shirt and your skin looks amazing.

[49:28] Bob Dobbs: A lot of people think I've got amazing skin,

[49:30] Bob Dobbs: but that's due to our products.

[49:31] Bob Dobbs: So this person says,

[49:34] Bob Dobbs: Julie was happy to hear how strong I sound.

[49:38] Bob Dobbs: I feel so much better because of your generosity and the wonderful products.

[49:49] Bob Dobbs: I don't think truly I have ever felt this good in my life.

[49:53] Bob Dobbs: Now,

[49:53] Bob Dobbs: she's ill,

[49:54] Bob Dobbs: serious problems,

[49:55] Bob Dobbs: but she's feeling the best way she could ever feel.

[49:58] Bob Dobbs: I have an appointment with the surgeon on the 30th about my gallbladder.

[50:01] Bob Dobbs: I'm going to ask him to run another scan to check on it because the last scan I had was when I was out in California.

[50:07] Bob Dobbs: I'm being hesitant about the removal.

[50:09] Bob Dobbs: I don't want to have it done just because my mom had hers removed.

[50:14] Bob Dobbs: But I just wanted to express my gratitude because you are indeed all things awesome.

[50:20] Bob Dobbs: Then she mentions a friend,

[50:21] Bob Dobbs: mutual friend,

[50:22] Bob Dobbs: said she reached out to you about things and I'm glad.

[50:24] Bob Dobbs: She was amazed at how well I sounded and felt and I told her it was because of you,

[50:29] Bob Dobbs: meaning the products.

[50:30] Bob Dobbs: Thank you so very much.

[50:32] Bob Dobbs: Words cannot express how fantastic I feel.

[50:34] Bob Dobbs: Now,

[50:35] Bob Dobbs: Carolyn gets these testimonies every day from all over the world.

[50:39] Bob Dobbs: This stuff works so dramatically.

[50:42] Bob Dobbs: You know,

[50:42] Bob Dobbs: it's not like vitamins.

[50:43] Bob Dobbs: You take them and you don't feel anything.

[50:45] Bob Dobbs: You feel stuff with our products.

[50:48] Bob Dobbs: you

[50:48] Bob Dobbs: Why am I telling you this?

[50:50] Bob Dobbs: How do we get out of that?

[50:52] Bob Dobbs: Homeopathy,

[50:52] Bob Dobbs: oh yeah,

[50:53] Bob Dobbs: and Ben Benis.

[50:53] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,

[50:54] Bob Dobbs: and then the technology she had called MIR,

[50:59] Bob Dobbs: which was Magnetically Influenced Homeopathic Remedies,

[51:03] Bob Dobbs: had that,

[51:03] Bob Dobbs: and that prepared the great work it did with

[51:07] Bob Dobbs: AIDS, prepared her for working with,

[51:09] Bob Dobbs: quote,

[51:09] Bob Dobbs: miraculous stuff.

[51:10] Bob Dobbs: So now she has her own stuff going.

[51:16] Bob Dobbs: iON is helping us make even better stuff.

[51:18] Bob Dobbs: Our newer products,

[51:19] Bob Dobbs: like I was telling you about the amino acids,

[51:21] Bob Dobbs: are even more incredible than the products we have now.

[51:25] Bob Dobbs: So that's what's coming.

[51:26] Bob Dobbs: Okay,

[51:27] Bob Dobbs: so back to the article.

[51:29] Bob Dobbs: This is a proven homeopathic principle.

[51:31] Bob Dobbs: See Benveniste.

[51:35] Bob Dobbs: Now,

[51:36] Bob Dobbs: this is McLuhan.

[51:37] Bob Dobbs: McLuhan did acupuncture.

[51:39] Bob Dobbs: He was interested in all this alternative stuff.

[51:42] Bob Dobbs: I went to his acupuncturist doctor one day with him.

[51:46] Bob Dobbs: And he knew about homeopathy.

[51:48] Bob Dobbs: He used the term back in the

[51:50] Bob Dobbs: 50s, I think,

[51:51] Bob Dobbs: in an article.

[51:52] Cameron McEwen: So this is in the

[51:55] Cameron McEwen: 1970s, right?

[51:56] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,

[51:57] Bob Dobbs: we went up to the guy.

[51:58] Bob Dobbs: He lived on St.

[51:59] Bob Dobbs: Clair Avenue.

[52:01] Bob Dobbs: Dr.

[52:02] Bob Dobbs: Gay,

[52:04] Bob Dobbs: right next to 219 St.

[52:06] Bob Dobbs: Clair Avenue,

[52:08] Bob Dobbs: which was the building that Michael Blake Read started in when he started the Evergreens in 1974.

[52:14] Bob Dobbs: that McLuhan family went to,

[52:16] Bob Dobbs: that medium I've told you about.

[52:19] Bob Dobbs: That was right beside the building.

[52:20] Bob Dobbs: So like 222 or 221 or something.

[52:24] Bob Dobbs: Actually,

[52:24] Bob Dobbs: my mind is 235.

[52:26] Bob Dobbs: It was a big building.

[52:27] Bob Dobbs: That's where he went in for the acupuncture office,

[52:29] Bob Dobbs: 235 St.

[52:30] Bob Dobbs: Clair Avenue West,

[52:31] Bob Dobbs: right opposite the church that he went to,

[52:34] Bob Dobbs: you know,

[52:35] Bob Dobbs: Trinity Chapel or whatever it's called.

[52:37] Bob Dobbs: Do you know that church in Toronto?

[52:39] Cameron McEwen: No.

[52:43] Cameron McEwen: I don't think so.

[52:45] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,

[52:46] Bob Dobbs: that's his church,

[52:46] Bob Dobbs: just on St.

[52:48] Bob Dobbs: Clair Avenue,

[52:49] Bob Dobbs: just to the left.

[52:50] Bob Dobbs: If you go up Avenue Road,

[52:51] Bob Dobbs: turn left,

[52:52] Bob Dobbs: you get to that church.

[52:54] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,

[52:56] Cameron McEwen: that's probably the closest Catholic parish to their home,

[53:01] Bob Dobbs: right?

[53:01] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,

[53:02] Bob Dobbs: Frank and Groney lived across the street when they lived on Wells Hill in the 50s and

[53:06] Bob Dobbs: 60s before they moved to Witchwood in 68,

[53:08] Bob Dobbs: and Frank was in the church with McLuhan.

[53:11] Bob Dobbs: So he knew him as a boy growing up.

[53:14] Bob Dobbs: And Frank Zingrone did a lot of work with Eric McLuhan.

[53:17] Cameron McEwen: But in the 1970s...

[53:18] Bob Dobbs: It was about 1975 we went to the office.

[53:23] Cameron McEwen: mm-hmm.

[53:25] Cameron McEwen: So was McLuhan in those years sometimes very healthy and then sometimes very sick?

[53:33] Cameron McEwen: Was he sort of going back and forth all of that?

[53:35] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,

[53:35] Bob Dobbs: yeah.

[53:36] Bob Dobbs: And he got,

[53:38] Bob Dobbs: I think I've told you this,

[53:42] Bob Dobbs: the living water...

[53:45] Bob Dobbs: was approximated by Joe

[53:48] Bob Dobbs: Dunsloan in Los Angeles,

[53:50] Bob Dobbs: this eccentric older guy.

[53:52] Bob Dobbs: He made this substance out of grains and then made a little cement cube and put the water,

[53:59] Bob Dobbs: made up the water part of the cement powder to make the cement cube.

[54:02] Bob Dobbs: And that was called the D-cell.

[54:04] Bob Dobbs: And the D-cell cleaned up water and energized it.

[54:12] Bob Dobbs: And we started taking it in 69,

[54:13] Bob Dobbs: and it slowed down our aging.

[54:15] Bob Dobbs: It happened to a lot of other people in this new age network around this medium called Cosmic Awareness that sold this stuff.

[54:24] Bob Dobbs: Well,

[54:24] Bob Dobbs: McLuhan one day in

[54:27] Bob Dobbs: 79, he says to me,

[54:31] Bob Dobbs: you have some kind of water purifier?

[54:33] Bob Dobbs: I said,

[54:33] Bob Dobbs: yep.

[54:35] Bob Dobbs: He said,

[54:35] Bob Dobbs: I'd like to talk to you about it.

[54:36] Bob Dobbs: I said,

[54:37] Bob Dobbs: well,

[54:37] Bob Dobbs: I'll send Carolyn over there.

[54:39] Bob Dobbs: She's the doctor.

[54:40] Bob Dobbs: She'll come over.

[54:41] Bob Dobbs: She'll explain it.

[54:42] Bob Dobbs: And so Karen went up there one Sunday,

[54:45] Bob Dobbs: and she said McLuhan was there with his gloves on,

[54:48] Bob Dobbs: stirring the fire.

[54:50] Bob Dobbs: He's always playing around with the fireplace.

[54:52] Bob Dobbs: And so she laid out the,

[54:54] Bob Dobbs: so this would be

[54:56] Bob Dobbs: September 79.

[54:58] Bob Dobbs: So she explained the D cell,

[55:01] Bob Dobbs: kind of got him,

[55:03] Bob Dobbs: yeah,

[55:03] Bob Dobbs: I'm going to try it.

[55:04] Bob Dobbs: So she left him a sample D cell.

[55:07] Bob Dobbs: And that's like...

[55:09] Cameron McEwen: Couldn't have been late in 79 because he'd already had his stroke.

[55:14] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,

[55:15] Bob Dobbs: so it was not September.

[55:15] Bob Dobbs: It was August 26th,

[55:17] Bob Dobbs: right.

[55:19] Bob Dobbs: So there it is on August

[55:21] Bob Dobbs: 20th or so on the Sunday.

[55:22] Bob Dobbs: I think his stroke was on a Friday,

[55:24] Bob Dobbs: if you look it up.

[55:25] Bob Dobbs: So on the Sunday before that,

[55:28] Bob Dobbs: she's with him.

[55:29] Bob Dobbs: So then a few days later,

[55:31] Bob Dobbs: he has a stroke and nobody has told this,

[55:34] Bob Dobbs: but Marg Stewart tells me.

[55:36] Bob Dobbs: And then I'm friends of her husband,

[55:38] Bob Dobbs: and they know about the D-cell,

[55:40] Bob Dobbs: and

[55:41] Bob Dobbs: Jim said that he went over on Saturday,

[55:44] Bob Dobbs: McLuhan,

[55:45] Bob Dobbs: you know,

[55:45] Bob Dobbs: was in the hospital,

[55:47] Bob Dobbs: and he saw the D-cell sitting in the hall on a little bench,

[55:52] Bob Dobbs: a little table,

[55:53] Bob Dobbs: so it hadn't been used yet.

[55:56] Bob Dobbs: So I always joke later with people who knew about the D-cell,

[55:58] Bob Dobbs: McLuhan,

[55:59] Bob Dobbs: he got to the promised land,

[56:00] Bob Dobbs: but he didn't fucking consume it.

[56:02] Bob Dobbs: He should have taken the D-cell right away.

[56:05] Bob Dobbs: He'd be okay.

[56:06] Bob Dobbs: We'd have survived six days later.

[56:09] Bob Dobbs: Anyways,

[56:09] Bob Dobbs: that might sound a little clued to people,

[56:11] Bob Dobbs: but we're cool.

[56:12] Bob Dobbs: We're detached.

[56:14] Bob Dobbs: We don't identify with the human form.

[56:16] Bob Dobbs: So anyways,

[56:19] Bob Dobbs: that's how dramatic it was.

[56:20] Bob Dobbs: He got the D cell,

[56:22] Bob Dobbs: but he didn't do it yet.

[56:23] Bob Dobbs: He had to put it in a jar of water and let it percolate for 24 hours.

[56:27] Bob Dobbs: He hadn't done it.

[56:28] Bob Dobbs: And then he has a stroke,

[56:30] Bob Dobbs: which for other reasons he had the stroke.

[56:32] Bob Dobbs: I don't know if you know about the story.

[56:34] Bob Dobbs: I'm not going to go into that,

[56:35] Bob Dobbs: but

[56:37] Bob Dobbs: George Thompson was part of the problem.

[56:42] Bob Dobbs: So,

[56:42] Bob Dobbs: let's see.

[56:47] Bob Dobbs: So,

[56:47] Bob Dobbs: yeah,

[56:48] Bob Dobbs: the decel was the beginning of us looking into crazy alternative stuff.

[56:52] Bob Dobbs: And McLuhan was interested in it.

[56:55] Bob Dobbs: See,

[56:55] Bob Dobbs: that's where he wasn't a

[56:57] Bob Dobbs: Western scientific literate Gutenberg guy.

[57:00] Bob Dobbs: He was open to new modalities that were happening.

[57:05] Bob Dobbs: And he wrote about acupuncture in Take Today and yoga and that stuff.

[57:10] Bob Dobbs: And his wife became a heavy yoga person and got involved with a swami who lived at the McLuhan's for a while in the early

[57:18] Bob Dobbs: 70s.

[57:21] Bob Dobbs: All right.

[57:21] Bob Dobbs: And then Marshall started doing yoga.

[57:24] Bob Dobbs: Okay.

[57:26] Bob Dobbs: Did you know that?

[57:27] Bob Dobbs: He did.

[57:27] Cameron McEwen: No.

[57:28] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.

[57:30] Bob Dobbs: Maybe she forced him to do it.

[57:32] Bob Dobbs: He was doing it.

[57:32] Bob Dobbs: That was probably why he was going up and down in his health.

[57:35] Bob Dobbs: He was getting good alternative input,

[57:38] Bob Dobbs: but it wasn't stabilized,

[57:40] Bob Dobbs: so he relapsed.

[57:44] Bob Dobbs: Okay,

[57:44] Bob Dobbs: so we're here at the point where I'm saying the homeopathic principle,

[57:50] Bob Dobbs: and this memory to everything,

[57:52] Bob Dobbs: everything in quotes,

[57:53] Bob Dobbs: was an habitable environment as far as human beings were concerned,

[57:59] Bob Dobbs: even though only one-third perceptible to them.

[58:02] Bob Dobbs: because the effects of environment always precede its causes.

[58:06] Bob Dobbs: Hence,

[58:06] Bob Dobbs: use of the term hologram.

[58:08] Bob Dobbs: I just want to read that again.

[58:10] Bob Dobbs: However,

[58:10] Bob Dobbs: in homeopathic terms,

[58:11] Bob Dobbs: one should understand that everything,

[58:13] Bob Dobbs: or in quotes,

[58:14] Bob Dobbs: everything,

[58:15] Bob Dobbs: or at least the memory of everything,

[58:17] Bob Dobbs: was being diluted to ever more invisible and inaudible but potent effect.

[58:21] Bob Dobbs: This is a proven homeopathy principle.

[58:23] Bob Dobbs: C.

[58:23] Bob Dobbs: Benveniste.

[58:24] Bob Dobbs: And this memory to everything was an habitable,

[58:29] Bob Dobbs: I think that's how you say it,

[58:31] Bob Dobbs: habitable,

[58:31] Bob Dobbs: was an inevitable environment.

[58:35] Bob Dobbs: So that's the new environment,

[58:36] Bob Dobbs: the global theater and the Global Membrane,

[58:38] Bob Dobbs: as far as human beings were concerned,

[58:40] Bob Dobbs: even though only one-third perceptible to them because they can only see the chemical body part of it because the effects of environment always precede its causes,

[58:51] Bob Dobbs: hence the use of the term hologram.

[58:54] Bob Dobbs: Since most everything was being retrieved,

[58:56] Bob Dobbs: there was a necessarily archetypal quality to the situation.

[59:00] Bob Dobbs: And also...

[59:01] Bob Dobbs: Now this is what I wrote in 1987.

[59:03] Bob Dobbs: And also,

[59:04] Bob Dobbs: since it was an ever-changing and ever-fluid context,

[59:07] Bob Dobbs: I didn't have my five-bodied stuff in 87.

[59:11] Bob Dobbs: I'm trying to talk about this shrinking of the,

[59:14] Bob Dobbs: so my homeopathy knowledge mixed with the hologram.

[59:17] Bob Dobbs: Because McLuhan used to say the hologram comes after television.

[59:21] Bob Dobbs: So,

[59:22] Bob Dobbs: and also,

[59:24] Bob Dobbs: since it was an ever-changing,

[59:25] Bob Dobbs: ever-fluid context,

[59:26] Bob Dobbs: remember how

[59:27] Bob Dobbs: Kroker used the word fluid,

[59:29] Bob Dobbs: There was a complementary process of intensity creating the holeopathic cliché probe.

[59:35] Bob Dobbs: And that's the alchemy you've lived in,

[59:38] Bob Dobbs: lived in in quotes,

[59:39] Bob Dobbs: from 86 to 2012,

[59:41] Bob Dobbs: the world of holeopathic cliché probes.

[59:44] Bob Dobbs: These holeopathic cliché probes constitute further refinements of the form and content of the newspaper,

[59:49] Bob Dobbs: movie,

[59:50] Bob Dobbs: radio,

[59:50] Bob Dobbs: television,

[59:51] Bob Dobbs: and computer environments and their inner penetrations of each other under the panoptical surveillance-slash-scanning of the satellite environment.

[1:00:00] Bob Dobbs: Advertising and the Nielsen ratings were the gluons that simulated economic control of these media matings.

[1:00:08] Bob Dobbs: So that's stuff from my chart,

[1:00:11] Bob Dobbs: Tiny Note chart.

[1:00:14] Bob Dobbs: So,

[1:00:16] Bob Dobbs: how are we doing here?

[1:00:18] Bob Dobbs: How was that?

[1:00:19] Bob Dobbs: Do we have to unpack that?

[1:00:24] Cameron McEwen: Well,

[1:00:24] Cameron McEwen: it's good wordsmithing.

[1:00:26] Bob Dobbs: Yeah?

[1:00:28] Bob Dobbs: Okay,

[1:00:28] Bob Dobbs: let me read the commentary,

[1:00:30] Bob Dobbs: then we'll go back to this.

[1:00:31] Cameron McEwen: Okay.

[1:00:32] Bob Dobbs: So the commentary is...

[1:00:35] Bob Dobbs: I say Jacques Benveniste was given validation for a few months of having proven homeopathy exists.

[1:00:41] Bob Dobbs: Till Randy and those guys fuck with him.

[1:00:44] Bob Dobbs: As things get smaller and shrink,

[1:00:46] Bob Dobbs: they keep the memory of the substance.

[1:00:48] Bob Dobbs: In my terms,

[1:00:49] Bob Dobbs: the memory would be the human being or the Anthropomorphic Physical archetype.

[1:00:55] Bob Dobbs: And AP stands for Anthropomorphic Physical.

[1:00:57] Bob Dobbs: McLuhan said,

[1:00:58] Bob Dobbs: quote,

[1:00:59] Bob Dobbs: with the extension of his nervous system as a total information environment,

[1:01:03] Bob Dobbs: Man bridges art and nature.

[1:01:05] Bob Dobbs: Today,

[1:01:06] Bob Dobbs: nature,

[1:01:07] Bob Dobbs: nature in quotes,

[1:01:07] Bob Dobbs: is the mess age,

[1:01:09] Bob Dobbs: but man is still the content.

[1:01:11] Bob Dobbs: That's page 11 of Take Today.

[1:01:14] Bob Dobbs: Then I say,

[1:01:15] Bob Dobbs: man has started to disappear,

[1:01:17] Bob Dobbs: but for most people,

[1:01:18] Bob Dobbs: man is still here.

[1:01:19] Bob Dobbs: Now that's a general sloppy way of saying the chemical body is actually what's disappearing.

[1:01:24] Bob Dobbs: Man doesn't actually disappear.

[1:01:26] Bob Dobbs: He moves into invisible appendage extensions.

[1:01:31] Bob Dobbs: So anyways,

[1:01:31] Bob Dobbs: man has started to disappear,

[1:01:33] Bob Dobbs: but for most people man is still here.

[1:01:35] Bob Dobbs: Humans are still here as the content,

[1:01:37] Bob Dobbs: but it's very archetypal.

[1:01:39] Bob Dobbs: It's like a memory.

[1:01:40] Bob Dobbs: The only memory in the Global Membrane is the one of humans.

[1:01:45] Bob Dobbs: Then I say gluons hold the world together.

[1:01:48] Bob Dobbs: And advertising,

[1:01:49] Bob Dobbs: McLuhan used to say,

[1:01:50] Bob Dobbs: was the glue for the industrial age.

[1:01:53] Bob Dobbs: That's in quotes,

[1:01:54] Bob Dobbs: glue for the industrial age.

[1:01:55] Bob Dobbs: It was the propaganda to keep the first half of the 20th century organized.

[1:02:00] Bob Dobbs: These are in essays McLuhan wrote in the early

[1:02:04] Bob Dobbs: 50s, like Sight,

[1:02:05] Bob Dobbs: Sound,

[1:02:05] Bob Dobbs: and Fury,

[1:02:06] Bob Dobbs: where he talked about,

[1:02:07] Bob Dobbs: you know,

[1:02:07] Bob Dobbs: advertising was the cohesion of public consciousness explaining the benefits of all these machines and factories that people worked in.

[1:02:16] Bob Dobbs: Remember that part?

[1:02:17] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.

[1:02:18] Bob Dobbs: Those statements.

[1:02:19] Bob Dobbs: So that's what I'm trying to replay here.

[1:02:20] Bob Dobbs: It was the propaganda advertising to keep the first half of the 20th century organized,

[1:02:25] Bob Dobbs: that people were motivated to work in the factories to make these products.

[1:02:29] Bob Dobbs: Advertising showed the workers what they were making.

[1:02:32] Bob Dobbs: Advertising was like a Sunday preacher's sermon giving meaning to the new languages that the people were engaged in.

[1:02:39] Bob Dobbs: Gluons as a particle do that.

[1:02:43] Bob Dobbs: Then another bunch of stuff.

[1:02:45] Bob Dobbs: Is this from my 19...

[1:02:49] Bob Dobbs: No,

[1:02:50] Bob Dobbs: I get into the chemical wise.

[1:02:51] Bob Dobbs: So that's later.

[1:02:51] Bob Dobbs: So we go back to...

[1:02:53] Bob Dobbs: I was saying 19.

[1:02:54] Bob Dobbs: I meant,

[1:02:55] Bob Dobbs: yeah,

[1:02:55] Bob Dobbs: 1987.

[1:02:58] Bob Dobbs: So back to 150,

[1:03:01] Bob Dobbs: having explained it,

[1:03:03] Bob Dobbs: let's you read it,

[1:03:06] Bob Dobbs: starting at holeopathic at the top there in quotes,

[1:03:09] Bob Dobbs: and stop and ask questions or make statements as you go along.

[1:03:16] Cameron McEwen: All right,

[1:03:16] Cameron McEwen: we'll try that.

[1:03:17] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.

[1:03:18] Cameron McEwen: holeopathic is a word that combines the two,

[1:03:21] Cameron McEwen: excuse me,

[1:03:21] Cameron McEwen: processes of homeopathy and the hologram.

[1:03:25] Bob Dobbs: You're not,

[1:03:26] Bob Dobbs: you're...

[1:03:26] Bob Dobbs: Are you far from your mic?

[1:03:29] Cameron McEwen: Oh,

[1:03:29] Cameron McEwen: maybe.

[1:03:29] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,

[1:03:30] Bob Dobbs: don't.

[1:03:31] Bob Dobbs: Be closer to the mic.

[1:03:33] Cameron McEwen: Okay.

[1:03:33] Cameron McEwen: How's that?

[1:03:34] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.

[1:03:34] Bob Dobbs: So now do it again.

[1:03:36] Cameron McEwen: Okay.

[1:03:37] Cameron McEwen: holeopathic is a word that combines the two processes of homeopathy and the hologram.

[1:03:45] Cameron McEwen: Since the technologies of the industrial and subsequent electronic revolutions had been subs

[1:03:55] Cameron McEwen: by the burgeoning television environment after 1945,

[1:04:01] Cameron McEwen: one might as well say that everything had disappeared.

[1:04:08] Cameron McEwen: I can understand that.

[1:04:09] Cameron McEwen: I don't know that

[1:04:11] Cameron McEwen: I have questions there.

[1:04:13] Bob Dobbs: Well,

[1:04:14] Bob Dobbs: you remember Lyotard wrote a book defining the postmodern condition about 1979,

[1:04:19] Bob Dobbs: and he made a big deal out of the age of disappearance.

[1:04:24] Bob Dobbs: He used that theme of everything disappearing in the postmodern jargon.

[1:04:31] Bob Dobbs: Do you know that book?

[1:04:32] Cameron McEwen: No.

[1:04:33] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,

[1:04:33] Bob Dobbs: Lyotard is L-Y-O-T-A-R-D.

[1:04:36] Bob Dobbs: He's a famous French thinker of that era.

[1:04:38] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,

[1:04:39] Cameron McEwen: for sure.

[1:04:41] Bob Dobbs: So he wrote a book,

[1:04:41] Bob Dobbs: The Age of Disappearance,

[1:04:42] Bob Dobbs: I think,

[1:04:43] Bob Dobbs: plus one on the postmodern condition.

[1:04:45] Bob Dobbs: So that's my academic reference point for what I'm saying.

[1:04:51] Cameron McEwen: Sure.

[1:04:52] Cameron McEwen: So for...

[1:04:54] Cameron McEwen: In the blog,

[1:04:56] Cameron McEwen: I use Nietzsche as the guru of disappearance.

[1:05:00] Bob Dobbs: Wow,

[1:05:01] Bob Dobbs: does he use that term?

[1:05:03] Cameron McEwen: Well,

[1:05:04] Cameron McEwen: he doesn't say...

[1:05:07] Cameron McEwen: that things disappeared so far as he says that there is no more apparent world.

[1:05:17] Bob Dobbs: No more apparent world.

[1:05:19] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.

[1:05:20] Cameron McEwen: In other words,

[1:05:22] Cameron McEwen: for

[1:05:23] Cameron McEwen: Nietzsche, what happens in the history of Western civilization is that there is progressive attacks between,

[1:05:31] Cameron McEwen: let's say,

[1:05:32] Cameron McEwen: Plato and Hegel on the real world.

[1:05:38] Cameron McEwen: So

[1:05:41] Cameron McEwen: Nietzsche looks back to the start of the

[1:05:43] Cameron McEwen: 19th century and he says,

[1:05:44] Cameron McEwen: well,

[1:05:47] Cameron McEwen: if the real world doesn't hold anymore,

[1:05:51] Cameron McEwen: let's get rid of it.

[1:05:51] Cameron McEwen: Let's just have the apparent world.

[1:05:54] Cameron McEwen: And then he says,

[1:05:55] Cameron McEwen: but there's this problem with the real world.

[1:05:58] Cameron McEwen: We have also lost the apparent world.

[1:06:02] Cameron McEwen: So

[1:06:03] Cameron McEwen: Nietzsche already in the 1880s.

[1:06:08] Cameron McEwen: was talking about the disappearance of reality and along with reality of everything.

[1:06:16] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,

[1:06:16] Bob Dobbs: and McLuhan would say that was a telegraph effect.

[1:06:20] Bob Dobbs: It was happening across the board in all kinds of disciplines.

[1:06:23] Bob Dobbs: They were starting to tap into the tactile,

[1:06:25] Bob Dobbs: invisible acoustic again.

[1:06:31] Cameron McEwen: What happens at the end of the Gutenberg

[1:06:34] Cameron McEwen: Galaxy is that

[1:06:37] Cameron McEwen: It becomes impossible to ignore the gap.

[1:06:44] Cameron McEwen: And so then when people become obsessed by the gap and unable to come to terms with it,

[1:06:53] Cameron McEwen: they kind of get lost in the fog of the gap and everything disappears.

[1:06:59] Bob Dobbs: Right.

[1:07:01] Cameron McEwen: They are unable to see that the gap is transitive,

[1:07:06] Cameron McEwen: that the gap...

[1:07:07] Cameron McEwen: is what holds things together.

[1:07:11] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,

[1:07:11] Bob Dobbs: they think the void is empty.

[1:07:14] Cameron McEwen: Correct,

[1:07:15] Cameron McEwen: correct,

[1:07:17] Cameron McEwen: precisely.

[1:07:18] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,

[1:07:19] Bob Dobbs: and they become airheads.

[1:07:22] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.

[1:07:24] Bob Dobbs: Electric air has occupied their head,

[1:07:26] Bob Dobbs: and they don't understand it,

[1:07:27] Bob Dobbs: so they're just dazed and confused and get on medication.

[1:07:31] Cameron McEwen: Correct,

[1:07:33] Cameron McEwen: correct.

[1:07:35] Bob Dobbs: Okay,

[1:07:36] Bob Dobbs: let's carry on.

[1:07:37] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,

[1:07:38] Cameron McEwen: so however,

[1:07:38] Cameron McEwen: in homeopathic terms,

[1:07:40] Cameron McEwen: one should understand that everything,

[1:07:43] Cameron McEwen: or at least the memory of,

[1:07:45] Cameron McEwen: was being diluted to ever more invisible and inaudible but potent effect.

[1:07:53] Cameron McEwen: And in fact,

[1:07:54] Cameron McEwen: that's more or less what we were just saying about the gap.

[1:07:58] Cameron McEwen: What is happening is that the materiality of things is...

[1:08:07] Cameron McEwen: crumbling in people's hands,

[1:08:10] Cameron McEwen: but that doesn't mean that the effects of the materiality around them isn't having a huge effect.

[1:08:20] Cameron McEwen: So in the transition between technologies,

[1:08:28] Cameron McEwen: there is a strange effect where the more people are affected by something.

[1:08:37] Cameron McEwen: the less they're able to perceive it.

[1:08:40] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.

[1:08:42] Bob Dobbs: And Marshall McLuhan used to say in the Monday night seminars that there were no connections in matter.

[1:08:48] Cameron McEwen: Right.

[1:08:50] Cameron McEwen: Resonances.

[1:08:51] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.

[1:08:54] Cameron McEwen: But that,

[1:08:54] Cameron McEwen: you see,

[1:08:55] Cameron McEwen: that's what the Gutenberg Galaxy did not know and could not learn.

[1:09:00] Bob Dobbs: Right.

[1:09:01] Cameron McEwen: In its own terms.

[1:09:03] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.

[1:09:03] Cameron McEwen: So for...

[1:09:06] Bob Dobbs: It holds on to connectedness.

[1:09:10] Cameron McEwen: Correct.

[1:09:11] Cameron McEwen: So a lot of what McLuhan is about is the condition of being in between before the next stage is known.

[1:09:22] Cameron McEwen: And what that means is that everything becomes dislocated.

[1:09:26] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.

[1:09:28] Bob Dobbs: And he wrote a column,

[1:09:29] Bob Dobbs: The Gap is Where the Action Is,

[1:09:31] Bob Dobbs: for a dental magazine.

[1:09:33] Cameron McEwen: Correct.

[1:09:38] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,

[1:09:38] Cameron McEwen: the dental magazine was the Ontario Dentist.

[1:09:42] Bob Dobbs: Is that right?

[1:09:42] Bob Dobbs: You have it?

[1:09:43] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,

[1:09:44] Cameron McEwen: I have that if you want me to send you a copy.

[1:09:47] Bob Dobbs: I think I have one,

[1:09:48] Bob Dobbs: but if it's easy to send a copy,

[1:09:50] Bob Dobbs: I'll get a digital image,

[1:09:52] Bob Dobbs: you mean?

[1:09:53] Cameron McEwen: Yes.

[1:09:53] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,

[1:09:54] Bob Dobbs: we can post it.

[1:09:58] Cameron McEwen: I think I already have.

[1:09:59] Cameron McEwen: I'll send you a link to where I have it in my blog.

[1:10:04] Bob Dobbs: Okay.

[1:10:06] Bob Dobbs: All right,

[1:10:06] Bob Dobbs: so next sentence after effect.

[1:10:11] Cameron McEwen: Right,

[1:10:12] Cameron McEwen: this is a proven homeopathic principle,

[1:10:14] Cameron McEwen: si ben venis.

[1:10:17] Cameron McEwen: And this memory to everything was a habitable environment as far as human beings were concerned,

[1:10:24] Cameron McEwen: even though only one-third perceptible to them because the effects of an environment always precede its causes.

[1:10:33] Bob Dobbs: So there's the effects are the materialities.

[1:10:36] Bob Dobbs: the effects are the new materiality.

[1:10:40] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,

[1:10:41] Cameron McEwen: so,

[1:10:43] Cameron McEwen: you know,

[1:10:43] Cameron McEwen: the whole idea of effects preceding the causes is very important in

[1:10:48] Cameron McEwen: McLuhan.

[1:10:51] Cameron McEwen: But I'm not sure that I would have put that in this same sentence here.

[1:10:56] Cameron McEwen: This is a very complex sentence.

[1:11:01] Cameron McEwen: For example,

[1:11:01] Cameron McEwen: you say,

[1:11:02] Cameron McEwen: and this memoried everything.

[1:11:06] Cameron McEwen: This memory to everything covers a lot of stuff in McLuhan.

[1:11:11] Cameron McEwen: It goes to roles in the global theater.

[1:11:17] Cameron McEwen: It goes to the ground of what's happening that gives any kind of substance to the world.

[1:11:29] Cameron McEwen: But that substance and ground are unknown to the people living in it.

[1:11:34] Bob Dobbs: Right.

[1:11:35] Bob Dobbs: By being unknown,

[1:11:36] Bob Dobbs: they don't know the causes,

[1:11:38] Bob Dobbs: so they live within the effects.

[1:11:39] Bob Dobbs: They feel it,

[1:11:41] Bob Dobbs: but they don't know what they're feeling.

[1:11:43] Cameron McEwen: Absolutely.

[1:11:45] Cameron McEwen: And that not knowing what you're feeling and not knowing the ground and cause is dislocating.

[1:11:53] Cameron McEwen: So you have human beings are naturally acting and only acting through the Laws of Media.

[1:12:04] Cameron McEwen: but they have no idea what they're doing.

[1:12:07] Cameron McEwen: So for

[1:12:08] Cameron McEwen: McLuhan, that means that you have an awful lot of unhappy people going around.

[1:12:13] Cameron McEwen: But worse than that,

[1:12:14] Cameron McEwen: you have a dysfunctional society that increasingly turns to war,

[1:12:21] Cameron McEwen: for example,

[1:12:23] Cameron McEwen: in a crazed attempt at identity.

[1:12:28] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,

[1:12:28] Bob Dobbs: that's the whole 20th century.

[1:12:30] Cameron McEwen: Yes,

[1:12:30] Cameron McEwen: sir.

[1:12:32] Bob Dobbs: So,

[1:12:32] Bob Dobbs: yeah,

[1:12:32] Bob Dobbs: so it's interesting.

[1:12:33] Bob Dobbs: I'm sort of trying to say,

[1:12:34] Bob Dobbs: okay,

[1:12:35] Bob Dobbs: there is a materiality,

[1:12:37] Bob Dobbs: and you only see one-third of it.

[1:12:40] Bob Dobbs: That would be the chemical body.

[1:12:41] Bob Dobbs: You don't see the TV or a computer landscape.

[1:12:47] Bob Dobbs: So I'm saying the effects precede a knowing of what it is.

[1:12:52] Bob Dobbs: That's the causes.

[1:12:53] Bob Dobbs: So the effects are the materiality because you're feeling it.

[1:12:58] Bob Dobbs: It's...

[1:12:58] Bob Dobbs: It's physical.

[1:12:59] Bob Dobbs: It does something to you,

[1:13:00] Bob Dobbs: this electric tactility.

[1:13:02] Bob Dobbs: So it's an awkwardly stated sentence,

[1:13:05] Bob Dobbs: but if you understand what I'm trying to say,

[1:13:08] Bob Dobbs: it is the reason you feel this stuff is because the effects precede the causes.

[1:13:16] Bob Dobbs: You don't know the causes,

[1:13:18] Bob Dobbs: but you're feeling them.

[1:13:20] Cameron McEwen: So the next sentence you say,

[1:13:22] Cameron McEwen: hence the use of the term hologram.

[1:13:25] Cameron McEwen: So...

[1:13:28] Cameron McEwen: The word hence refers backwards,

[1:13:31] Cameron McEwen: right?

[1:13:31] Cameron McEwen: And so when you're talking about the effects of an environment always precede its causes,

[1:13:39] Cameron McEwen: what you're saying there in terms of the hologram is that the environment is necessarily structured.

[1:13:46] Cameron McEwen: It can't not be structured.

[1:13:49] Cameron McEwen: But what can happen is that the structure goes unrecognized.

[1:13:54] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,

[1:13:54] Bob Dobbs: and I'm thinking...

[1:13:55] Bob Dobbs: I might have been talking etymologically.

[1:13:57] Bob Dobbs: I might have been saying,

[1:13:57] Bob Dobbs: look at that word,

[1:13:58] Bob Dobbs: holo,

[1:13:59] Bob Dobbs: that's holistic.

[1:14:00] Bob Dobbs: That's a tactile reality.

[1:14:02] Bob Dobbs: That might have been what I meant.

[1:14:05] Bob Dobbs: I didn't explain it enough,

[1:14:06] Bob Dobbs: but

[1:14:07] Bob Dobbs: I was saying,

[1:14:08] Bob Dobbs: look at the word itself.

[1:14:09] Bob Dobbs: It kind of talks about this totalistic tactility that the electric environment is causing.

[1:14:15] Bob Dobbs: And then you have a bit of literacy.

[1:14:17] Bob Dobbs: That's the gram,

[1:14:19] Bob Dobbs: you know,

[1:14:19] Bob Dobbs: the hologram.

[1:14:21] Bob Dobbs: That's like tactile eye.

[1:14:23] Bob Dobbs: If hollow is tactile,

[1:14:24] Bob Dobbs: gram is the eye.

[1:14:27] Bob Dobbs: I'm just thinking that now.

[1:14:30] Cameron McEwen: Hollowed means whole,

[1:14:32] Cameron McEwen: right?

[1:14:32] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.

[1:14:36] Bob Dobbs: So it's sort of an odd statement.

[1:14:38] Bob Dobbs: I go,

[1:14:38] Bob Dobbs: hence the use of the term hologram.

[1:14:40] Bob Dobbs: It's not really obvious why I say that links to the previous sentence.

[1:14:48] Cameron McEwen: Well,

[1:14:48] Cameron McEwen: I think it has to do with the fact that the environment is...

[1:14:53] Cameron McEwen: being active in a structured way like a hologram,

[1:15:00] Cameron McEwen: but it's as yet unknown.

[1:15:09] Bob Dobbs: Okay,

[1:15:10] Bob Dobbs: carry on.

[1:15:12] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,

[1:15:12] Cameron McEwen: since most everything was being retrieved,

[1:15:15] Cameron McEwen: there was a necessarily archetypal quality to the situation.

[1:15:20] Cameron McEwen: So that's exactly what we were just saying,

[1:15:22] Cameron McEwen: right?

[1:15:23] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,

[1:15:23] Bob Dobbs: and everything was being retrieved.

[1:15:25] Bob Dobbs: In other words,

[1:15:26] Bob Dobbs: all previous analog media and human culture and nature was the content of this gaping maw,

[1:15:34] Bob Dobbs: the global hologram,

[1:15:35] Bob Dobbs: that was eating everything.

[1:15:38] Bob Dobbs: So everything...

[1:15:39] Bob Dobbs: Marshall McLuhan writes about it in the media approach to inflation in 1974.

[1:15:44] Bob Dobbs: Anything can be invested in.

[1:15:47] Bob Dobbs: Anything can be insured.

[1:15:49] Bob Dobbs: Remember that part of the article?

[1:15:51] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.

[1:15:52] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,

[1:15:53] Bob Dobbs: that's what I was getting at.

[1:15:55] Bob Dobbs: Everything becomes business.

[1:15:58] Bob Dobbs: Everything.

[1:16:00] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.

[1:16:00] Cameron McEwen: So his notion of inflation in that context is very interesting.

[1:16:08] Cameron McEwen: And hangs together with what you're talking about with hologram here.

[1:16:12] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.

[1:16:14] Cameron McEwen: For

[1:16:15] Cameron McEwen: McLuhan, what happens when people get themselves into this dislocated state is that they attempt to get out of it through inflation.

[1:16:29] Cameron McEwen: They attempt to find the meaning of everything,

[1:16:32] Cameron McEwen: you could say.

[1:16:37] Cameron McEwen: The meaning of everything is never going to be this thing or that thing.

[1:16:43] Bob Dobbs: Right,

[1:16:43] Bob Dobbs: so that's what I'm getting at there.

[1:16:45] Bob Dobbs: Everything becomes archetypal.

[1:16:48] Cameron McEwen: Yes.

[1:16:51] Bob Dobbs: And so then the whole merger of the electric fusion itself is archetypal.

[1:17:00] Cameron McEwen: Yes.

[1:17:01] Bob Dobbs: And then that inspires people to want global peace and global world order and all that.

[1:17:07] Bob Dobbs: unity thing is an expression of the archetypal effect.

[1:17:14] Cameron McEwen: Yep.

[1:17:17] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,

[1:17:18] Cameron McEwen: there's a,

[1:17:20] Cameron McEwen: how to put it,

[1:17:22] Cameron McEwen: there's a kind of ballooning that comes with this dislocation,

[1:17:31] Cameron McEwen: and that ties into the whole Superman effect that's...

[1:17:36] Cameron McEwen: McLuhan talks about being on the media.

[1:17:39] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,

[1:17:41] Bob Dobbs: he says at the end of Take Today,

[1:17:43] Bob Dobbs: where he talks about the recently achieved forms of consciousness,

[1:17:47] Bob Dobbs: he says some people would think this is supernatural.

[1:17:50] Bob Dobbs: Correct.

[1:17:52] Bob Dobbs: That's what you're talking about,

[1:17:53] Bob Dobbs: the supernatural inflation.

[1:17:55] Cameron McEwen: Absolutely.

[1:17:56] Cameron McEwen: It's the inflationary attempt to find ground in the wrong place.

[1:18:03] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,

[1:18:03] Bob Dobbs: and they kind of visualize it as something that's huge and swallows everything.

[1:18:09] Bob Dobbs: And then that makes you become a zombie,

[1:18:12] Bob Dobbs: a motivated zombie for some green deal.

[1:18:19] Bob Dobbs: That's what that whole green deal is.

[1:18:20] Bob Dobbs: It's an archetypal fucking icon for some kind of merger that we're describing that appears to be archetypal.

[1:18:27] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,

[1:18:28] Cameron McEwen: it's wokedom.

[1:18:29] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,

[1:18:31] Bob Dobbs: which is interesting that every...

[1:18:32] Bob Dobbs: There's Finnegans Wake.

[1:18:33] Bob Dobbs: Remember,

[1:18:34] Bob Dobbs: he says in 1970 that

[1:18:37] Bob Dobbs: Eliot's auditory imagination was ordinary awareness,

[1:18:40] Bob Dobbs: but Finnegans Wake had not become conscious yet.

[1:18:43] Bob Dobbs: 30,

[1:18:44] Bob Dobbs: 50 years later,

[1:18:45] Bob Dobbs: Finnegans Wake is kind of conscious,

[1:18:48] Bob Dobbs: as an effect anyways,

[1:18:50] Bob Dobbs: in wokeness.

[1:18:51] Bob Dobbs: I mean,

[1:18:51] Bob Dobbs: look at the term.

[1:18:52] Bob Dobbs: That's Finnegans Wake.

[1:18:55] Bob Dobbs: Finnegans Wake.

[1:18:58] Bob Dobbs: And

[1:18:59] Bob Dobbs: Joyce is trying to...

[1:19:00] Bob Dobbs: maybe explain the causes of why you become and think you're awake or archetypal.

[1:19:07] Bob Dobbs: That leads to a lot of religious inspiration in born-again stuff or inspired or drug-taking,

[1:19:14] Bob Dobbs: ayahuasca and that.

[1:19:16] Bob Dobbs: They're trying to mime the archetypal effect of the singularity.

[1:19:21] Bob Dobbs: There's actually the singularity before they popularized the term.

[1:19:29] Cameron McEwen: Yep.

[1:19:30] Cameron McEwen: The inflation,

[1:19:35] Cameron McEwen: the supernatural effect is the attempt to inflate something that is only singular.

[1:19:49] Cameron McEwen: That is to say it locks the gap.

[1:19:52] Cameron McEwen: It's the attempt to take something that's only singular and make it into everything.

[1:19:57] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,

[1:19:57] Bob Dobbs: so that's the...

[1:20:01] Bob Dobbs: The afterimage of visual space,

[1:20:03] Bob Dobbs: which is a container.

[1:20:05] Bob Dobbs: And so it's the last grasp of the visually biased left hemisphere to contain the global experience that's happening,

[1:20:12] Bob Dobbs: to contain it.

[1:20:15] Bob Dobbs: You have to drop the visual attempt to contain it.

[1:20:20] Bob Dobbs: So then you accept or notice its discontinuity,

[1:20:23] Bob Dobbs: and then you have to learn to surf it.

[1:20:25] Cameron McEwen: Right.

[1:20:26] Cameron McEwen: And one of the funny things about this inflationary supernaturalism,

[1:20:34] Cameron McEwen: is that you can do it with anything.

[1:20:37] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.

[1:20:37] Cameron McEwen: So these huge things,

[1:20:40] Cameron McEwen: which want to swallow the entire universe because that's the only way you can get meaning out of them,

[1:20:46] Cameron McEwen: they become tiny.

[1:20:49] Cameron McEwen: And so that gets back into the homeopathy that you're talking about.

[1:20:52] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,

[1:20:53] Bob Dobbs: yeah,

[1:20:53] Cameron McEwen: that's a good point.

[1:20:56] Cameron McEwen: The more huge things you have,

[1:20:58] Cameron McEwen: the smaller the huge things have to be.

[1:21:01] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,

[1:21:01] Bob Dobbs: they flip.

[1:21:01] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.

[1:21:03] Bob Dobbs: And that's why I call it the Tiny Note.

[1:21:05] Bob Dobbs: Zappa talked about the big note,

[1:21:07] Bob Dobbs: so I call it the Tiny Note.

[1:21:10] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,

[1:21:10] Cameron McEwen: they belong together.

[1:21:11] Bob Dobbs: Beg your pardon?

[1:21:12] Cameron McEwen: They belong together.

[1:21:13] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.

[1:21:15] Bob Dobbs: So you were just swallowing everything.

[1:21:21] Bob Dobbs: That's where McLuhan said that this electric technically imposed the integral on people.

[1:21:27] Bob Dobbs: That was his term for what we're talking about here,

[1:21:30] Bob Dobbs: the singularity.

[1:21:31] Bob Dobbs: attempt to frame this inflated hugeness,

[1:21:37] Bob Dobbs: integral awareness.

[1:21:38] Cameron McEwen: I guess

[1:21:40] Cameron McEwen: McLuhan's phrase that you're using there has several different opposed meanings.

[1:21:47] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.

[1:21:47] Cameron McEwen: Right?

[1:21:48] Cameron McEwen: Because the electric is integral in a way that the Gutenberg Galaxy does not know.

[1:21:56] Bob Dobbs: That's right.

[1:21:57] Cameron McEwen: And the effect of...

[1:22:00] Cameron McEwen: the Marconi era is a kind of introduction to that new kind of integrity.

[1:22:10] Cameron McEwen: But in the absence of being able to sense that integrity,

[1:22:19] Cameron McEwen: when people are still on the way to it,

[1:22:22] Cameron McEwen: then what they try to do is find some sort of spurious

[1:22:30] Cameron McEwen: integrity that they can hitch their wagon to.

[1:22:34] Cameron McEwen: Right?

[1:22:34] Cameron McEwen: And so what history becomes is a contest of integrities,

[1:22:41] Cameron McEwen: a contest of integrals.

[1:22:43] Bob Dobbs: Right.

[1:22:43] Bob Dobbs: And the content of tactility is not just visual,

[1:22:47] Bob Dobbs: it's acoustic.

[1:22:48] Bob Dobbs: So music gets louder.

[1:22:50] Bob Dobbs: And rock music is the acoustic complement to this singularity inflation thing we're talking about.

[1:22:56] Cameron McEwen: Correct.

[1:22:57] Cameron McEwen: Absolutely.

[1:22:58] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.

[1:22:59] Cameron McEwen: Absolutely.

[1:22:59] Bob Dobbs: The emotion of multitude.

[1:23:02] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,

[1:23:04] Cameron McEwen: it's the attempt to inflate youth.

[1:23:08] Bob Dobbs: Inflate your ears.

[1:23:09] Bob Dobbs: Inflate the merger effect of space,

[1:23:12] Bob Dobbs: of sound.

[1:23:16] Bob Dobbs: So what,

[1:23:19] Bob Dobbs: as the tactile becomes the content,

[1:23:21] Bob Dobbs: that's what he lays out in

[1:23:23] Bob Dobbs: Media Approach to Inflation in 74.

[1:23:26] Bob Dobbs: And so the...

[1:23:27] Bob Dobbs: the market gets into putting futures on anything.

[1:23:31] Bob Dobbs: Correct.

[1:23:32] Bob Dobbs: And so the tactile becomes the content.

[1:23:36] Bob Dobbs: So we're in this strange post-tactile.

[1:23:39] Bob Dobbs: It might be the digital.

[1:23:42] Bob Dobbs: Well,

[1:23:42] Bob Dobbs: the machines are extending the machines.

[1:23:44] Bob Dobbs: We're not extending our senses anymore.

[1:23:46] Bob Dobbs: So he was trying to explain this post-tactile in that article,

[1:23:54] Bob Dobbs: which is a big...

[1:23:58] Bob Dobbs: development in his work that nobody has noticed except for us.

[1:24:06] Cameron McEwen: Right.

[1:24:07] Cameron McEwen: So you can see the problem that people have reading McLuhan because they always say stuff like,

[1:24:16] Cameron McEwen: you know,

[1:24:17] Cameron McEwen: he thought that television was the answer to everything.

[1:24:21] Cameron McEwen: Right.

[1:24:23] Cameron McEwen: Just ridiculous stuff like that.

[1:24:28] Cameron McEwen: The critique of television was a kind of a reversion to the book in the sense that the book had to balance the

[1:24:42] Cameron McEwen: electric environment.

[1:24:45] Cameron McEwen: In order to understand media,

[1:24:49] Cameron McEwen: you couldn't just go with one medium because that repeats the original mistake.

[1:24:55] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.

[1:24:55] Cameron McEwen: Right.

[1:24:55] Cameron McEwen: the

[1:24:56] Cameron McEwen: So you need to go to media plural.

[1:24:59] Cameron McEwen: And what happens when people simply take the television or computers or the electric environment as the answer,

[1:25:14] Cameron McEwen: as the inflationary meaning of everything,

[1:25:20] Cameron McEwen: then that becomes a way of being lost just as much as if you're immersed.

[1:25:29] Cameron McEwen: only in the Gutenberg Galaxy.

[1:25:32] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,

[1:25:33] Bob Dobbs: we were talking at the beginning of last session,

[1:25:35] Bob Dobbs: number 70,

[1:25:36] Bob Dobbs: about how media should be part of physical analysis of matter,

[1:25:42] Bob Dobbs: about how science needs to incorporate influence knowledge.

[1:25:47] Bob Dobbs: What was I going to say about that?

[1:25:52] Bob Dobbs: So what you were just saying reminded me of that.

[1:25:59] Bob Dobbs: Well,

[1:26:00] Bob Dobbs: can you just repeat a couple of lines you just were saying?

[1:26:03] Cameron McEwen: Well,

[1:26:04] Cameron McEwen: I was saying that the Understanding Media necessarily understands media plural.

[1:26:10] Cameron McEwen: Right.

[1:26:11] Cameron McEwen: It's just as possible to be lost in the electric environment as it is in the print environment.

[1:26:18] Cameron McEwen: Right.

[1:26:18] Bob Dobbs: So the integral,

[1:26:22] Bob Dobbs: I think I lost it.

[1:26:24] Bob Dobbs: We came up with a new,

[1:26:26] Bob Dobbs: oh yeah,

[1:26:26] Bob Dobbs: the theory of everything.

[1:26:28] Bob Dobbs: That's an attempt to do that.

[1:26:30] Bob Dobbs: That's visual space science wanting to be totalistic.

[1:26:35] Bob Dobbs: And so,

[1:26:35] Bob Dobbs: you know,

[1:26:35] Bob Dobbs: what's his name?

[1:26:37] Bob Dobbs: The paralyzed guy,

[1:26:39] Bob Dobbs: Stephen Hawking,

[1:26:40] Bob Dobbs: and other people of the recent last 30,

[1:26:43] Bob Dobbs: 40 years were trying to do a theory of everything.

[1:26:45] Bob Dobbs: I think Einstein tried to do that.

[1:26:48] Bob Dobbs: And the theory of everything was Finnegans Wake,

[1:26:51] Bob Dobbs: which McLuhan translated.

[1:26:54] Bob Dobbs: Finnegans Wake acts out the theory of everything.

[1:26:57] Bob Dobbs: Mimesis the process of noticing it.

[1:27:01] Bob Dobbs: So you get the macro and the micro mirror each other.

[1:27:07] Bob Dobbs: What you were just expressing,

[1:27:08] Bob Dobbs: the attempt to inflate yourself into a big frame,

[1:27:13] Bob Dobbs: which is going to flip into the tiny,

[1:27:16] Bob Dobbs: is the scientific probe that they're trying to figure out the theory of everything.

[1:27:24] Cameron McEwen: Right.

[1:27:25] Cameron McEwen: So the key to...

[1:27:28] Cameron McEwen: a theory of everything,

[1:27:29] Cameron McEwen: at least according to McLuhan,

[1:27:31] Cameron McEwen: is that it's necessarily a theory of everything's plural.

[1:27:36] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,

[1:27:37] Bob Dobbs: and that's translated into economics or politics as the multipolar world.

[1:27:42] Cameron McEwen: Correct,

[1:27:44] Cameron McEwen: exactly.

[1:27:46] Bob Dobbs: William R.

[1:27:46] Bob Dobbs: Thompson pointed out...

[1:27:47] Cameron McEwen: Not only economics,

[1:27:50] Cameron McEwen: but politics.

[1:27:51] Bob Dobbs: That's what I just said,

[1:27:52] Bob Dobbs: economics and politics.

[1:27:53] Cameron McEwen: Oh,

[1:27:53] Cameron McEwen: I'm sorry.

[1:27:54] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,

[1:27:55] Bob Dobbs: they bring in...

[1:27:55] Cameron McEwen: I didn't hear that.

[1:27:56] Bob Dobbs: They both do it.

[1:27:57] Bob Dobbs: And then William R.

[1:27:57] Bob Dobbs: Thompson,

[1:27:58] Bob Dobbs: he had an interesting point that the multipolar is still rearview mirror.

[1:28:07] Bob Dobbs: There's like no polarity in the fused part of 14,

[1:28:13] Bob Dobbs: the one.

[1:28:14] Bob Dobbs: The fourth is the spiraling off,

[1:28:16] Bob Dobbs: and that's the multipolar.

[1:28:20] Cameron McEwen: Well,

[1:28:22] Cameron McEwen: couldn't we say that a true multipolar...

[1:28:26] Cameron McEwen: is the one and the four together.

[1:28:28] Bob Dobbs: Yes,

[1:28:29] Bob Dobbs: yeah.

[1:28:30] Bob Dobbs: Or co-anesthesia and synesthesia.

[1:28:33] Bob Dobbs: Put those two together.

[1:28:36] Bob Dobbs: You're sitting at the center,

[1:28:38] Bob Dobbs: and then to communicate,

[1:28:39] Bob Dobbs: you have to use media with people,

[1:28:42] Bob Dobbs: not words.

[1:28:43] Bob Dobbs: You've got to use different media,

[1:28:46] Bob Dobbs: and that's what you have.

[1:28:49] Bob Dobbs: In social media,

[1:28:50] Bob Dobbs: Web 2.0,

[1:28:51] Bob Dobbs: you have all kinds of analog media to express yourself.

[1:28:56] Bob Dobbs: So it tends to be mostly you'll fall into collage or hyper-edited.

[1:29:05] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,

[1:29:06] Cameron McEwen: that's a little bit like how I read Kroker.

[1:29:10] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.

[1:29:12] Cameron McEwen: I read,

[1:29:14] Cameron McEwen: if somebody's doing collage or somebody doing hyper-editing and all this stuff,

[1:29:19] Cameron McEwen: I see them as trying to emerge from a kind of bog.

[1:29:25] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.

[1:29:26] Cameron McEwen: They're trying to extricate themselves from something that feels like limitation.

[1:29:33] Cameron McEwen: And the problem is that they do that by exercising themselves.

[1:29:41] Cameron McEwen: Exercising like in possession?

[1:29:48] Bob Dobbs: Yes.

[1:29:49] Cameron McEwen: Well,

[1:29:49] Cameron McEwen: it's just there are people that are...

[1:29:53] Cameron McEwen: it's like a poet.

[1:29:57] Cameron McEwen: The poet has to come up with the individual words,

[1:30:01] Cameron McEwen: and the poet has to decide when the end of a line has been reached,

[1:30:08] Cameron McEwen: and finally has to decide when the end of the poem has been reached.

[1:30:12] Cameron McEwen: But the problem is that makes the whole value and meaning of the poem parasitic on the poet.

[1:30:20] Cameron McEwen: But if the poet is the poet,

[1:30:22] Cameron McEwen: problem,

[1:30:23] Cameron McEwen: doing poetry like that is never going to be the answer.

[1:30:26] Bob Dobbs: Right.

[1:30:27] Cameron McEwen: And so that applies to hyper-editing or it applies to taking some tiny thing and inflating it into the supernatural.

[1:30:38] Cameron McEwen: The whole need is to get out of the imperative to direct,

[1:30:47] Cameron McEwen: which comes from Gutenberg Galaxy.

[1:30:50] Cameron McEwen: So...

[1:30:52] Cameron McEwen: Going beyond the Gutenberg Galaxy feels like dislocation to people,

[1:30:57] Cameron McEwen: feels like fragmentation.

[1:30:59] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.

[1:31:02] Cameron McEwen: They're unable to see the new integrity that would be involved.

[1:31:09] Cameron McEwen: And then they say,

[1:31:10] Cameron McEwen: well,

[1:31:10] Cameron McEwen: okay,

[1:31:10] Cameron McEwen: the new integrity,

[1:31:11] Cameron McEwen: that's like television,

[1:31:12] Cameron McEwen: or that's like the computer or something.

[1:31:14] Cameron McEwen: But no,

[1:31:15] Cameron McEwen: the new integrity,

[1:31:16] Cameron McEwen: or it's the new integrity that is the old integrity.

[1:31:22] Cameron McEwen: Integrity comes from media,

[1:31:24] Cameron McEwen: comes,

[1:31:25] Cameron McEwen: plural,

[1:31:25] Cameron McEwen: comes from the perception that the,

[1:31:33] Cameron McEwen: that holograms are plural and are available as a kind of homeopathic remedy.

[1:31:43] Cameron McEwen: The only way to do that is to be,

[1:31:46] Cameron McEwen: accept the smallness of oneself.

[1:31:50] Bob Dobbs: Yep.

[1:31:51] Bob Dobbs: So you were talking about

[1:31:54] Bob Dobbs: McLuhan thought television was the answer.

[1:31:56] Bob Dobbs: So when I was collecting all these articles in 77,

[1:32:00] Bob Dobbs: and I would go to the Fort Book,

[1:32:02] Bob Dobbs: you know,

[1:32:02] Bob Dobbs: Robarts Library,

[1:32:04] Bob Dobbs: and give the guy all these microfilms to Xerox to evoke or print up these articles for me,

[1:32:14] Bob Dobbs: one day this guy maybe did about 10 McLuhan articles.

[1:32:18] Bob Dobbs: So he...

[1:32:19] Bob Dobbs: Turns out he'd never heard of McLuhan,

[1:32:20] Bob Dobbs: so he hands me my stuff and he says,

[1:32:23] Bob Dobbs: who is this guy?

[1:32:24] Bob Dobbs: He seems to really like television.

[1:32:28] Bob Dobbs: So that was his view of,

[1:32:29] Bob Dobbs: he was scanning,

[1:32:31] Bob Dobbs: glancing at the articles and their titles,

[1:32:33] Bob Dobbs: and he was just picking up that point,

[1:32:35] Bob Dobbs: right?

[1:32:36] Bob Dobbs: This guy likes television.

[1:32:39] Bob Dobbs: I said,

[1:32:39] Bob Dobbs: he's a professor here at the university.

[1:32:41] Bob Dobbs: He goes,

[1:32:42] Bob Dobbs: wow,

[1:32:42] Cameron McEwen: yeah.

[1:32:43] Bob Dobbs: I told him to look him up.

[1:32:45] Bob Dobbs: I didn't take time to explain it all.

[1:32:47] Cameron McEwen: Sure.

[1:32:48] Bob Dobbs: But it was cute.

[1:32:49] Bob Dobbs: He said,

[1:32:49] Bob Dobbs: this guy really likes television.

[1:32:52] Cameron McEwen: Well,

[1:32:53] Cameron McEwen: people are still writing articles like that.

[1:32:57] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.

[1:32:58] Bob Dobbs: So early McLuhanism of the

[1:33:01] Bob Dobbs: 60s is interpreted as,

[1:33:02] Bob Dobbs: oh yeah,

[1:33:02] Bob Dobbs: we're going back to an oral acoustic world.

[1:33:05] Bob Dobbs: And then one lucky one out of a million says,

[1:33:09] Bob Dobbs: no,

[1:33:10] Bob Dobbs: he's talking tactility.

[1:33:12] Bob Dobbs: And then that's the next phase of

[1:33:15] Bob Dobbs: McLuhan perception.

[1:33:16] Bob Dobbs: And then you get into what we're talking about,

[1:33:18] Bob Dobbs: the multipolar,

[1:33:20] Bob Dobbs: the multiple bodies,

[1:33:21] Bob Dobbs: and what we've worked up to,

[1:33:24] Bob Dobbs: that's post-grad McLuhan.

[1:33:28] Bob Dobbs: And nobody gets to that level,

[1:33:32] Bob Dobbs: in my experience.

[1:33:34] Cameron McEwen: No.

[1:33:35] Bob Dobbs: But you see...

[1:33:35] Bob Dobbs: Well,

[1:33:36] Cameron McEwen: we're trying to...

[1:33:38] Cameron McEwen: We're doing the same kind of word exercise and mind exercise.

[1:33:45] Cameron McEwen: that we're talking about in Kroker,

[1:33:47] Cameron McEwen: but at a different level.

[1:33:49] Cameron McEwen: What we're trying to do is find out if there's a way of expressing and communicating this level of reading McLuhan that doesn't get bogged down in any of these other things.

[1:34:05] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.

[1:34:08] Bob Dobbs: Okay,

[1:34:08] Bob Dobbs: so we got to situation,

[1:34:11] Bob Dobbs: the word situation,

[1:34:13] Bob Dobbs: and also is the next part.

[1:34:19] Cameron McEwen: I've lost...

[1:34:20] Bob Dobbs: After archetypal quality to the situation.

[1:34:24] Bob Dobbs: Archetypal in quotes.

[1:34:27] Bob Dobbs: So look for the capital word effect and go down about six lines.

[1:34:37] Bob Dobbs: Did you lose the article?

[1:34:39] Cameron McEwen: No,

[1:34:39] Cameron McEwen: no,

[1:34:40] Cameron McEwen: I've got it here,

[1:34:41] Cameron McEwen: hence.

[1:34:43] Cameron McEwen: So are we on since most everything was being retrieved?

[1:34:47] Cameron McEwen: Is that where we are?

[1:34:48] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,

[1:34:48] Bob Dobbs: we did that.

[1:34:49] Bob Dobbs: We explained archetypal quality to the situation.

[1:34:52] Cameron McEwen: Okay,

[1:34:52] Cameron McEwen: so we're down to,

[1:34:55] Cameron McEwen: and also since it was an ever-changing and ever-fluid context,

[1:35:01] Cameron McEwen: there was a complementary process of intensity creating the holeopathic cliché probe.

[1:35:10] Cameron McEwen: Did you want to comment on that,

[1:35:12] Cameron McEwen: or shall I keep going?

[1:35:13] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,

[1:35:13] Bob Dobbs: McLuhan,

[1:35:14] Bob Dobbs: in

[1:35:15] Bob Dobbs: Cliché From Cliché to Archetype,

[1:35:17] Bob Dobbs: there's a chapter called,

[1:35:20] Bob Dobbs: it used the word cliché probe.

[1:35:22] Bob Dobbs: And so that's taking old media and retrieving them like he took the book or Finnegans Wake and used it as a cliche probe.

[1:35:32] Bob Dobbs: We do it environmentally as it's shrinking.

[1:35:35] Bob Dobbs: So we're probing with less and less.

[1:35:39] Bob Dobbs: And that's what I call that holeopathic cliche probe.

[1:35:43] Bob Dobbs: So the etherealization,

[1:35:46] Bob Dobbs: I'm extending that idea.

[1:35:49] Bob Dobbs: to environmental extensions,

[1:35:51] Bob Dobbs: which are holeopathic,

[1:35:53] Bob Dobbs: and applying it to the cliché probe process.

[1:35:56] Bob Dobbs: Because for McLuhan,

[1:35:57] Bob Dobbs: the cliché was creative.

[1:36:00] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,

[1:36:00] Cameron McEwen: definitely.

[1:36:02] Cameron McEwen: In fact,

[1:36:03] Cameron McEwen: there couldn't be anything else.

[1:36:04] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.

[1:36:07] Cameron McEwen: But when you talk about holeopathic as being...

[1:36:16] Bob Dobbs: Tiny environments.

[1:36:18] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.

[1:36:18] Cameron McEwen: But they're tiny environments that are at the same time huge,

[1:36:22] Cameron McEwen: right?

[1:36:22] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.

[1:36:24] Cameron McEwen: The huge environments are becoming available in a tiny form,

[1:36:32] Cameron McEwen: and it's in that tiny form that they'll be subject to pattern recognition.

[1:36:38] Cameron McEwen: But all of this,

[1:36:41] Cameron McEwen: the tininess,

[1:36:42] Cameron McEwen: the hugeness,

[1:36:43] Cameron McEwen: and the pattern recognition is...

[1:36:47] Cameron McEwen: taking place behind everybody's backs.

[1:36:50] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,

[1:36:51] Bob Dobbs: I like to say that you humans,

[1:36:53] Bob Dobbs: you think something has to be big to be powerful.

[1:36:56] Bob Dobbs: You don't realize that the smaller something is,

[1:36:58] Bob Dobbs: the more powerful it is.

[1:37:00] Cameron McEwen: Uh-huh.

[1:37:02] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,

[1:37:03] Cameron McEwen: that makes sense to me.

[1:37:04] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.

[1:37:05] Bob Dobbs: So,

[1:37:06] Bob Dobbs: you know,

[1:37:06] Bob Dobbs: more and more,

[1:37:08] Bob Dobbs: our RNA drops.

[1:37:09] Bob Dobbs: You take one drop and it has an incredible effect on you.

[1:37:12] Bob Dobbs: It's got that Tiny Note power.

[1:37:16] Bob Dobbs: the Tiny Note and what what do rna drops do uh we're not sure but they sure make you feel better it's a new proper healthy organic soma of brave new world uh-huh

[1:37:36] Bob Dobbs: yeah no like i read you that that testimonial like you know i never felt so good in my life that's what the drops do they they've got the eye sal this

[1:37:45] Bob Dobbs: The serious non-physical something that when scientists look at the RNA drops,

[1:37:51] Bob Dobbs: they can't see anything.

[1:37:52] Bob Dobbs: There's nothing here.

[1:37:54] Bob Dobbs: But they don't know why it affects,

[1:37:56] Bob Dobbs: but it has this invisible extension of non-physical.

[1:38:00] Bob Dobbs: See,

[1:38:00] Bob Dobbs: I think I ran through this.

[1:38:01] Bob Dobbs: You have the extension of our senses,

[1:38:04] Bob Dobbs: and then you have the extension of the planet,

[1:38:07] Bob Dobbs: and then the machines extend themselves,

[1:38:10] Bob Dobbs: and then after that you have the extension of non-physical.

[1:38:13] Bob Dobbs: So our...

[1:38:14] Bob Dobbs: Our endless electricity box and our medicines and amino acids are extensions of non-physical.

[1:38:23] Bob Dobbs: That's the new ground that's coming.

[1:38:27] Bob Dobbs: So it comes out of McLuhan.

[1:38:31] Cameron McEwen: In the phrase,

[1:38:33] Cameron McEwen: the extension of the non-physical,

[1:38:36] Cameron McEwen: is that as a generative of the non-physical?

[1:38:41] Cameron McEwen: Is that what is being extended?

[1:38:44] Cameron McEwen: Or is that the extension by or of the non-physical?

[1:38:50] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,

[1:38:50] Bob Dobbs: it's not tactility.

[1:38:52] Bob Dobbs: Tactile is like the physical mirror of the non-physical.

[1:38:55] Bob Dobbs: The non-physical is where spirit is or the astral or where you go when you die.

[1:39:01] Bob Dobbs: iON said it was the guff.

[1:39:03] Bob Dobbs: So you survive death and then you're in service environment.

[1:39:06] Bob Dobbs: And he said that's the non-physical.

[1:39:08] Bob Dobbs: And he said we are non-physical.

[1:39:11] Bob Dobbs: And then I applied McLuhan.

[1:39:12] Bob Dobbs: I said,

[1:39:13] Bob Dobbs: yeah,

[1:39:13] Bob Dobbs: you're non-physical,

[1:39:13] Bob Dobbs: but you're talking.

[1:39:15] Bob Dobbs: He said,

[1:39:15] Bob Dobbs: that's right.

[1:39:15] Bob Dobbs: We've never talked to people before.

[1:39:19] Bob Dobbs: It,

[1:39:19] Bob Dobbs: the environment.

[1:39:20] Bob Dobbs: So it's the first environment or technology that humans created.

[1:39:23] Bob Dobbs: We created non-physical when we fell.

[1:39:26] Bob Dobbs: And it's not a Gnostic fall,

[1:39:28] Bob Dobbs: but when we altered ourselves,

[1:39:31] Bob Dobbs: the metaphor being kicked out of the Garden of Eden,

[1:39:35] Bob Dobbs: we then feared for our situation,

[1:39:37] Bob Dobbs: so we created a place to die.

[1:39:41] Bob Dobbs: into.

[1:39:41] Bob Dobbs: And that was called the guff in

[1:39:44] Bob Dobbs: Hebrew literature.

[1:39:46] Bob Dobbs: iON says you don't have to die.

[1:39:49] Bob Dobbs: When you get a really perfectly functioning body,

[1:39:51] Bob Dobbs: which our products do to you,

[1:39:53] Bob Dobbs: you don't die.

[1:39:54] Bob Dobbs: You can't die.

[1:39:55] Bob Dobbs: So the non-physical has always been there holding humans together.

[1:40:01] Bob Dobbs: When they die,

[1:40:02] Bob Dobbs: they die and go to,

[1:40:03] Bob Dobbs: quote,

[1:40:03] Bob Dobbs: heaven,

[1:40:05] Bob Dobbs: but that's not necessary.

[1:40:07] Bob Dobbs: So non-physical had to extend itself,

[1:40:10] Bob Dobbs: come forward,

[1:40:11] Bob Dobbs: get into the physical and speak to us,

[1:40:13] Bob Dobbs: which is like becoming conscious of itself,

[1:40:16] Bob Dobbs: and that's what we're doing.

[1:40:18] Bob Dobbs: We're presenting,

[1:40:19] Bob Dobbs: I evoke this phenomenon,

[1:40:21] Bob Dobbs: and so non-physical is talking to us and making new technologies.

[1:40:25] Bob Dobbs: blowing everybody's mind.

[1:40:29] Bob Dobbs: So,

[1:40:29] Bob Dobbs: you see,

[1:40:30] Bob Dobbs: it's an extension of something.

[1:40:33] Bob Dobbs: iON never spoke to humans before.

[1:40:35] Bob Dobbs: They inspired people through mystical visions,

[1:40:38] Bob Dobbs: whatever people thought they were doing when they were doing Tibetan yoga or whatever,

[1:40:42] Bob Dobbs: or taking psychedelics,

[1:40:44] Bob Dobbs: or going into some weird dimension,

[1:40:46] Bob Dobbs: which iON called the mystery body.

[1:40:49] Bob Dobbs: And iON said,

[1:40:49] Bob Dobbs: we're here to explain the mystery body,

[1:40:51] Bob Dobbs: so it's not a mystery anymore,

[1:40:53] Bob Dobbs: and develop...

[1:40:55] Bob Dobbs: New environments from that.

[1:40:57] Bob Dobbs: So it's so poetic.

[1:40:59] Bob Dobbs: You go from extending the physical to machines extending themselves to extending the non-physical.

[1:41:05] Bob Dobbs: And that's the unbelievable,

[1:41:06] Bob Dobbs: miraculous situation I'm presenting.

[1:41:09] Cameron McEwen: Am I right that the tech body is at the end of the extension of the machines?

[1:41:17] Bob Dobbs: It is a bit of,

[1:41:19] Bob Dobbs: it's the machinic merger with the non-physical.

[1:41:22] Bob Dobbs: It's a very strange thing.

[1:41:25] Bob Dobbs: You know,

[1:41:25] Bob Dobbs: it's what people call AI,

[1:41:27] Bob Dobbs: and they don't understand it,

[1:41:28] Bob Dobbs: and it's evolving beyond us,

[1:41:29] Bob Dobbs: and so

[1:41:30] Bob Dobbs: Zuckerberg and those guys don't know what they're dealing with.

[1:41:34] Bob Dobbs: So

[1:41:35] Bob Dobbs: iON does maybe the best explanation of the tech body and brings the tech body forward,

[1:41:42] Bob Dobbs: and we talk to the tech body,

[1:41:45] Bob Dobbs: which people might say that's iON,

[1:41:46] Bob Dobbs: but it's a bit more intense and rude,

[1:41:51] Bob Dobbs: the tech body.

[1:41:52] Bob Dobbs: Now,

[1:41:52] Bob Dobbs: it's battling with iON.

[1:41:54] Bob Dobbs: iON is here to help us ascend so we preserve our power and don't succumb to the tech body.

[1:41:59] Bob Dobbs: But the tech body wants us to succumb to it.

[1:42:02] Bob Dobbs: And more and more,

[1:42:03] Bob Dobbs: let it do all our life.

[1:42:05] Bob Dobbs: It'll shop for us,

[1:42:08] Bob Dobbs: deliver stuff to us,

[1:42:09] Bob Dobbs: and this increasing slack state people are in,

[1:42:13] Bob Dobbs: with technology doing everything for you.

[1:42:16] Bob Dobbs: That's the tech body.

[1:42:20] Cameron McEwen: Trump's relation to the tech body,

[1:42:22] Cameron McEwen: is he a kind of herald?

[1:42:24] Bob Dobbs: iON and he and Biden are,

[1:42:29] Bob Dobbs: iON says that Obama was the last president.

[1:42:33] Bob Dobbs: After that,

[1:42:34] Bob Dobbs: no president.

[1:42:34] Bob Dobbs: So the Trump phenomenon came in and then the Biden phenomenon.

[1:42:38] Bob Dobbs: And actually,

[1:42:39] Bob Dobbs: it's the tech body that took over and runs the information environment.

[1:42:43] Bob Dobbs: Everything we witness,

[1:42:44] Bob Dobbs: iON says,

[1:42:45] Bob Dobbs: is you subjecting yourself to the tech body.

[1:42:49] Bob Dobbs: It is a super speedy life form,

[1:42:53] Bob Dobbs: techno form that is running the media.

[1:42:57] Cameron McEwen: So it's like the puppet master.

[1:42:59] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,

[1:42:59] Bob Dobbs: it's the content as puppet master.

[1:43:02] Bob Dobbs: Because remember in Playboy,

[1:43:03] Bob Dobbs: he says,

[1:43:05] Bob Dobbs: we will get more and more refined and the content will become ground.

[1:43:10] Bob Dobbs: So people argue over which content is going to be get the market share.

[1:43:16] Bob Dobbs: So they make new technology,

[1:43:18] Bob Dobbs: and then everybody quickly invents it,

[1:43:22] Bob Dobbs: and then they argue over who gets to occupy the

[1:43:25] Bob Dobbs: Wall Street share property dynamic,

[1:43:30] Bob Dobbs: whatever you call that.

[1:43:35] Bob Dobbs: So they're fighting to be,

[1:43:36] Bob Dobbs: and then,

[1:43:37] Bob Dobbs: like,

[1:43:37] Bob Dobbs: look,

[1:43:38] Bob Dobbs: genetics came in.

[1:43:39] Bob Dobbs: So then they took over the White House.

[1:43:42] Bob Dobbs: So all the presidents for the last 30 years have been propped up by...

[1:43:46] Bob Dobbs: What's that Monsanto in that?

[1:43:50] Bob Dobbs: They're all guys in the genetic industry.

[1:43:53] Bob Dobbs: Now,

[1:43:55] Bob Dobbs: we are taking over because we're bringing in newer technologies that bypasses the genetics.

[1:44:00] Bob Dobbs: We are an antidote to the genetic takeover in medicine.

[1:44:06] Bob Dobbs: So these are pretty big statements,

[1:44:09] Bob Dobbs: but I've been living with it for 15 years,

[1:44:11] Bob Dobbs: so I don't mind saying it,

[1:44:12] Bob Dobbs: and it's working.

[1:44:17] Bob Dobbs: As JW says,

[1:44:18] Bob Dobbs: Bob,

[1:44:19] Bob Dobbs: I don't know what you fucking created,

[1:44:20] Bob Dobbs: but this is fucking impossible.

[1:44:22] Bob Dobbs: How do we get to what we're doing?

[1:44:24] Bob Dobbs: You can't do this,

[1:44:25] Bob Dobbs: Bob.

[1:44:25] Bob Dobbs: You can't take over the world like this.

[1:44:28] Bob Dobbs: And we are.

[1:44:31] Bob Dobbs: So to me,

[1:44:32] Bob Dobbs: Finnegans Wake predicted this.

[1:44:33] Bob Dobbs: And McLuhan completed the explanation of that.

[1:44:36] Bob Dobbs: And so he,

[1:44:38] Bob Dobbs: as iON says,

[1:44:39] Bob Dobbs: he says he predicted the tech body.

[1:44:42] Bob Dobbs: He predicted this thing that's going to swallow us up.

[1:44:45] Bob Dobbs: And we've got to figure out,

[1:44:47] Bob Dobbs: like you ask people,

[1:44:48] Bob Dobbs: to change your perceptions in relation to it,

[1:44:51] Bob Dobbs: or you're going to get lost in it.

[1:44:53] Bob Dobbs: There is a way of...

[1:44:56] Bob Dobbs: Remaining your private citadel of consciousness.

[1:45:00] Bob Dobbs: And you do it through our products.

[1:45:02] Bob Dobbs: Because the world is materially changing through the pole shift.

[1:45:06] Bob Dobbs: So it's a pretty dramatic situation we're talking about.

[1:45:11] Bob Dobbs: But

[1:45:12] Bob Dobbs: I trained myself to get the apocalyptic and the dramatics by studying Zappa and McLuhan and other people.

[1:45:19] Bob Dobbs: You know?

[1:45:20] Bob Dobbs: That's what I specialized in.

[1:45:21] Bob Dobbs: So I can see how I rehearsed for this new environment.

[1:45:26] Bob Dobbs: I trained my perceptions for this new situation and even activated it unconsciously.

[1:45:34] Bob Dobbs: So this is a pretty big talk,

[1:45:36] Bob Dobbs: but that's what I say on the radio all the time.

[1:45:40] Bob Dobbs: I'm the best talker on the planet.

[1:45:44] Bob Dobbs: I say impossible things.

[1:45:49] Cameron McEwen: Let's finish with this paragraph and then maybe call it a day because...

[1:45:55] Cameron McEwen: I see that we're getting on for

[1:45:58] Cameron McEwen: 6.15 here.

[1:45:59] Bob Dobbs: Okay,

[1:46:00] Bob Dobbs: go ahead.

[1:46:01] Bob Dobbs: Let's finish it.

[1:46:02] Bob Dobbs: So you're at the end also.

[1:46:05] Cameron McEwen: At the end of the holeopathic cliché probe,

[1:46:07] Cameron McEwen: right?

[1:46:07] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.

[1:46:08] Cameron McEwen: And that's the alchemy you've lived in from 1986 to 2012.

[1:46:14] Cameron McEwen: These holeopathic cliché probes constitute further refinements of the form and content of the newspaper,

[1:46:22] Cameron McEwen: movie,

[1:46:22] Cameron McEwen: radio,

[1:46:23] Cameron McEwen: television.

[1:46:24] Cameron McEwen: and computer environments and their interpretations.

[1:46:27] Bob Dobbs: No,

[1:46:28] Bob Dobbs: interpenetrations.

[1:46:29] Cameron McEwen: Oh,

[1:46:29] Cameron McEwen: I'm sorry.

[1:46:31] Cameron McEwen: I thought that looked rather long for interpretation.

[1:46:34] Cameron McEwen: And their interpenetrations of each other under the panoptical surveillance scanning of the satellite environment.

[1:46:45] Cameron McEwen: I sort of think that's what we've been talking about,

[1:46:49] Cameron McEwen: these huge things becoming small.

[1:46:52] Cameron McEwen: becoming available in their plurality.

[1:46:56] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,

[1:46:56] Bob Dobbs: the further refinements,

[1:46:57] Bob Dobbs: or I could say shrinking,

[1:46:58] Bob Dobbs: the holeopathic process of analog media,

[1:47:02] Bob Dobbs: analog electric media.

[1:47:04] Bob Dobbs: It's the content of this digital,

[1:47:06] Bob Dobbs: or whatever this Android meme thing is,

[1:47:10] Bob Dobbs: machines,

[1:47:11] Bob Dobbs: extending machines.

[1:47:13] Cameron McEwen: The word panoptical is a strange word there.

[1:47:17] Cameron McEwen: Well,

[1:47:17] Bob Dobbs: that's the vestige of visual space,

[1:47:20] Bob Dobbs: of the Gutenberg.

[1:47:21] Cameron McEwen: Right.

[1:47:22] Bob Dobbs: And so the satellite environment and the surveillance that they're trying to bring in,

[1:47:26] Bob Dobbs: in a global

[1:47:27] Bob Dobbs: CIA, is the panoptical,

[1:47:30] Bob Dobbs: trying to maintain technologically through the satellite a framework of Gutenberg control.

[1:47:37] Bob Dobbs: It's the tyranny.

[1:47:44] Bob Dobbs: The panopticon is what

[1:47:46] Bob Dobbs: Foucault, I think,

[1:47:47] Bob Dobbs: writes about that.

[1:47:48] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,

[1:47:48] Cameron McEwen: he does.

[1:47:49] Cameron McEwen: He does.

[1:47:49] Cameron McEwen: And discipline and punishment.

[1:47:51] Bob Dobbs: So I threw that modern word in,

[1:47:54] Bob Dobbs: or postmodern word,

[1:47:55] Bob Dobbs: in surveillance scanning,

[1:47:56] Bob Dobbs: which,

[1:47:57] Bob Dobbs: you know,

[1:47:57] Bob Dobbs: that lady

[1:47:59] Bob Dobbs: Zuboff talks about surveillance capitalism.

[1:48:03] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,

[1:48:04] Cameron McEwen: I think what I was trying to point out with Panoptical is that there's two things going on in this sentence.

[1:48:13] Cameron McEwen: One is the availability of media.

[1:48:19] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.

[1:48:20] Cameron McEwen: through

[1:48:21] Cameron McEwen: this great combination.

[1:48:23] Cameron McEwen: But the availability of media has two faces.

[1:48:28] Cameron McEwen: One face is controlling,

[1:48:31] Cameron McEwen: very evil,

[1:48:32] Cameron McEwen: and is the great danger of the time.

[1:48:35] Cameron McEwen: And the problem of solving that problem,

[1:48:42] Cameron McEwen: of encountering that danger,

[1:48:44] Cameron McEwen: is that there is no counter.

[1:48:50] Cameron McEwen: encounter except in those same terms.

[1:48:54] Cameron McEwen: What does that mean?

[1:48:55] Bob Dobbs: What are the same terms?

[1:48:56] Cameron McEwen: What I mean by that is that the understanding newspaper,

[1:49:00] Cameron McEwen: movie,

[1:49:01] Cameron McEwen: radio,

[1:49:01] Cameron McEwen: television,

[1:49:02] Cameron McEwen: computer environments and their interpenetrations,

[1:49:05] Cameron McEwen: that's what makes the satellite environment possible.

[1:49:09] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.

[1:49:10] Cameron McEwen: Right.

[1:49:10] Cameron McEwen: But it's also what makes possible seeing through the satellite environment.

[1:49:16] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.

[1:49:17] Cameron McEwen: Right?

[1:49:18] Cameron McEwen: And so the saving is the danger.

[1:49:20] Cameron McEwen: The danger is the saving.

[1:49:22] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,

[1:49:22] Bob Dobbs: it's a living tetrad process,

[1:49:24] Bob Dobbs: enhancing,

[1:49:24] Bob Dobbs: obsolescing,

[1:49:25] Bob Dobbs: retrieving,

[1:49:26] Bob Dobbs: and flipping into.

[1:49:29] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.

[1:49:29] Bob Dobbs: And what you just were describing is,

[1:49:40] Bob Dobbs: quote,

[1:49:41] Bob Dobbs: the beast or the antichrist.

[1:49:43] Bob Dobbs: So I didn't want to put...

[1:49:44] Bob Dobbs: you know those moral judgments gutenberg judgment there so i called it panoptical surveillance scanning yeah yeah yeah so it's kind of a reversal yeah it's from it's a it's a um

[1:49:58] Cameron McEwen: pseudo integrity that is built out of an understanding of these media environments and their inner penetrations right so that's the what McLuhan would urge as the answer is

[1:50:16] Cameron McEwen: also the great danger is also the great question over the age and McLuhan certainly recognized that

[1:50:23] Bob Dobbs: Janus face that's right and so when people say

[1:50:26] Bob Dobbs: Oh,

[1:50:27] Bob Dobbs: McLuhan thought TV was the answer to everything,

[1:50:28] Bob Dobbs: and he also thought it was the fucking death of everything.

[1:50:32] Bob Dobbs: Correct.

[1:50:34] Bob Dobbs: He said you couldn't be a Christian under TV conditions.

[1:50:37] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.

[1:50:38] Bob Dobbs: You know,

[1:50:38] Bob Dobbs: a Gutenberg Christian.

[1:50:41] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,

[1:50:42] Bob Dobbs: and it's Janus-based.

[1:50:45] Bob Dobbs: I've been reading some criticism on Wyndham Lewis,

[1:50:47] Bob Dobbs: and they consider him Janus-faced in his Menippean satire.

[1:50:53] Bob Dobbs: It's interesting,

[1:50:54] Bob Dobbs: Lewis really laid out a pattern that McLuhan developed and completed.

[1:51:00] Bob Dobbs: See,

[1:51:00] Bob Dobbs: you know,

[1:51:02] Bob Dobbs: Eric says McLuhan is a Joycean.

[1:51:05] Bob Dobbs: Theall says that McLuhan is a

[1:51:07] Bob Dobbs: Wyndham Lewisian.

[1:51:09] Bob Dobbs: Ted Carpenter said McLuhan was Pound,

[1:51:11] Bob Dobbs: Poundian.

[1:51:14] Bob Dobbs: I say he's all four of them,

[1:51:16] Bob Dobbs: all five of them,

[1:51:17] Bob Dobbs: plus something new,

[1:51:19] Bob Dobbs: individual or unique to his...

[1:51:22] Bob Dobbs: his own creative genius of pattern recognition on top of that.

[1:51:26] Bob Dobbs: But he does complete the men of 1914,

[1:51:29] Bob Dobbs: each one of their works.

[1:51:30] Bob Dobbs: So you'll see a lot of...

[1:51:31] Cameron McEwen: I think that's right,

[1:51:33] Bob Dobbs: yeah.

[1:51:33] Bob Dobbs: You'll see a lot of Lewis,

[1:51:34] Bob Dobbs: direct lifting from Lewis,

[1:51:37] Bob Dobbs: direct lifting from Joyce,

[1:51:38] Bob Dobbs: direct lifting from Eliot,

[1:51:40] Bob Dobbs: and from a little Yeats and Pound.

[1:51:44] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.

[1:51:45] Bob Dobbs: So it's quite a synthesis.

[1:51:47] Bob Dobbs: He mimed the synthesis of what we're talking about here.

[1:51:50] Bob Dobbs: Correct.

[1:51:52] Bob Dobbs: And that's how Theall writes about in his biography that

[1:51:55] Bob Dobbs: McLuhan mimed the stresses and strains of the situation we're living in.

[1:52:01] Bob Dobbs: So he was a new kind of artist.

[1:52:04] Bob Dobbs: His body was the art form,

[1:52:06] Bob Dobbs: including what the body said.

[1:52:08] Bob Dobbs: Not his painting,

[1:52:09] Bob Dobbs: not his books,

[1:52:10] Bob Dobbs: not his

[1:52:11] Bob Dobbs: TV shows or whatever.

[1:52:13] Bob Dobbs: It was him responding to the present in a new way because the present had come together for a human to register it.

[1:52:22] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,

[1:52:24] Cameron McEwen: I agree with what you're saying there very much,

[1:52:27] Cameron McEwen: but it's an aspect of McLuhan that I don't really understand,

[1:52:32] Cameron McEwen: and I'm not sure it can be understood.

[1:52:36] Cameron McEwen: He has a kind of intuition.

[1:52:38] Bob Dobbs: What you need to do,

[1:52:38] Bob Dobbs: Cameron,

[1:52:39] Bob Dobbs: is get a radio show and start engaging the public.

[1:52:41] Bob Dobbs: That's how you fucking find out what's going on.

[1:52:44] Bob Dobbs: You've got to put yourself into the Aegean stables,

[1:52:48] Bob Dobbs: but once.

[1:52:52] Cameron McEwen: Well,

[1:52:52] Cameron McEwen: maybe,

[1:52:53] Cameron McEwen: maybe.

[1:52:58] Bob Dobbs: Okay,

[1:52:58] Bob Dobbs: so.

[1:52:59] Cameron McEwen: So let me finish the last sentence here.

[1:53:02] Bob Dobbs: Which is the same thing saying again,

[1:53:04] Bob Dobbs: but emphasizing the content.

[1:53:07] Cameron McEwen: Uh-huh.

[1:53:08] Cameron McEwen: But also you used the word gluons,

[1:53:10] Cameron McEwen: which we need to discuss a little bit.

[1:53:12] Cameron McEwen: Advertising and the Nielsen ratings were the gluons that simulated economic control of these media meetings.

[1:53:20] Cameron McEwen: That's a good.

[1:53:21] Cameron McEwen: phrase,

[1:53:21] Cameron McEwen: media matings.

[1:53:23] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,

[1:53:23] Bob Dobbs: so

[1:53:24] Bob Dobbs: I think Carpenter used that phrase and they became what they beheld,

[1:53:27] Bob Dobbs: media matings,

[1:53:29] Bob Dobbs: or mating media,

[1:53:30] Bob Dobbs: mating media.

[1:53:31] Bob Dobbs: But

[1:53:32] Bob Dobbs: McLuhan once said that the,

[1:53:36] Bob Dobbs: what's the parent-student parents association in suburbia?

[1:53:44] Bob Dobbs: PTL?

[1:53:45] Bob Dobbs: No,

[1:53:45] Bob Dobbs: not that.

[1:53:45] Bob Dobbs: PTA.

[1:53:45] Cameron McEwen: Parent Culture Association.

[1:53:49] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,

[1:53:50] Bob Dobbs: in the Washington Post,

[1:53:50] Bob Dobbs: I have the article somewhere,

[1:53:52] Bob Dobbs: he says the PTA is big brother.

[1:53:56] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,

[1:53:56] Cameron McEwen: well,

[1:53:56] Cameron McEwen: look what's happened to it now,

[1:53:58] Cameron McEwen: right?

[1:53:58] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.

[1:54:00] Bob Dobbs: Okay,

[1:54:00] Bob Dobbs: so PTA is big brother.

[1:54:03] Bob Dobbs: And advertising and the rate,

[1:54:06] Bob Dobbs: he also said the ratings were big brother.

[1:54:08] Bob Dobbs: Ratings with PTA were big brother.

[1:54:11] Bob Dobbs: And so they simulated.

[1:54:13] Bob Dobbs: Order,

[1:54:14] Bob Dobbs: Gutenberg order,

[1:54:15] Bob Dobbs: okay?

[1:54:15] Bob Dobbs: You're better than these guys.

[1:54:16] Bob Dobbs: You got more viewers than these guys,

[1:54:18] Bob Dobbs: so you're the richest.

[1:54:19] Bob Dobbs: And they kept the visual money hierarchy going that way.

[1:54:23] Bob Dobbs: That was the simulated economic control of something that was free for everybody under the media meetings.

[1:54:31] Bob Dobbs: So they pretended it had to be priced.

[1:54:33] Bob Dobbs: It had to be controlled through the Wall Street medium.

[1:54:38] Bob Dobbs: And so I call that the gluons.

[1:54:40] Bob Dobbs: It's a fake cohesion.

[1:54:44] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,

[1:54:45] Cameron McEwen: well you use the word glue somewhere in this context,

[1:54:50] Cameron McEwen: if I remember correctly.

[1:54:52] Cameron McEwen: And so I think that glue went together with gluons.

[1:54:58] Cameron McEwen: But I think you must have also had the technical meaning of gluons in mind.

[1:55:04] Bob Dobbs: Yes,

[1:55:05] Bob Dobbs: it's a subatomic particle.

[1:55:07] Bob Dobbs: I have several subatomic particles on my Tiny Note chart,

[1:55:10] Bob Dobbs: but I don't know if I have gluons.

[1:55:12] Bob Dobbs: I've got baryons,

[1:55:14] Bob Dobbs: mesons,

[1:55:17] Bob Dobbs: dichroic,

[1:55:19] Bob Dobbs: and two others.

[1:55:20] Bob Dobbs: I forget what they are.

[1:55:21] Bob Dobbs: And

[1:55:23] Bob Dobbs: I don't have the word gluon.

[1:55:24] Bob Dobbs: Let me see if I have the word gluon on the Tiny Note chart.

[1:55:28] Bob Dobbs: So we'll just finish up with this.

[1:55:33] Bob Dobbs: Okay,

[1:55:34] Bob Dobbs: Tiny Note chart right down here.

[1:55:49] Bob Dobbs: Just a second.

[1:55:50] Bob Dobbs: It's not that fast.

[1:55:51] Bob Dobbs: I thought it would be faster.

[1:55:56] Bob Dobbs: There it is.

[1:55:57] Bob Dobbs: Okay,

[1:55:58] Bob Dobbs: on the Tiny Note chart,

[1:56:01] Bob Dobbs: in the top part,

[1:56:02] Bob Dobbs: I've got...

[1:56:04] Bob Dobbs: Oh,

[1:56:04] Bob Dobbs: I do.

[1:56:04] Bob Dobbs: Under RIE,

[1:56:06] Bob Dobbs: which is the Lewis quadrant,

[1:56:08] Bob Dobbs: electromagnetism.

[1:56:09] Bob Dobbs: Under ELOI,

[1:56:10] Bob Dobbs: which is the

[1:56:12] Bob Dobbs: McLuhan quadrant,

[1:56:12] Bob Dobbs: I have gluon.

[1:56:14] Bob Dobbs: Under 2,

[1:56:15] Bob Dobbs: which is the

[1:56:16] Bob Dobbs: Thompson quadrant,

[1:56:17] Bob Dobbs: I have boson.

[1:56:19] Bob Dobbs: Under Lofty,

[1:56:19] Bob Dobbs: which is a Kroker quadrant,

[1:56:21] Bob Dobbs: I have Graviton.

[1:56:23] Bob Dobbs: And then under Bob,

[1:56:24] Bob Dobbs: I have Wormhole slash X particle.

[1:56:27] Bob Dobbs: That's the five columns that go across the top.

[1:56:31] Bob Dobbs: Then you have the vertical.

[1:56:34] Bob Dobbs: And so,

[1:56:36] Bob Dobbs: holeopathic Radio Satellite is the Hadron.

[1:56:39] Bob Dobbs: holeopathic Television is the Hadron.

[1:56:40] Bob Dobbs: satellite is the mason,

[1:56:42] Bob Dobbs: holeopathic computer satellite is the baryon,

[1:56:45] Bob Dobbs: holeopathic satellite squared is the diquark,

[1:56:47] Bob Dobbs: and there was a new term in the 80s,

[1:56:50] Bob Dobbs: it didn't last long,

[1:56:51] Bob Dobbs: the Anthropomorphic Physical is the demon nuclei.

[1:56:54] Bob Dobbs: So those are the...

[1:56:56] Bob Dobbs: Each quadrant is tiny.

[1:56:57] Bob Dobbs: They're subatomic particles.

[1:56:58] Bob Dobbs: So the gluon is in there,

[1:57:01] Bob Dobbs: up above on another context.

[1:57:03] Bob Dobbs: Electromagnetism,

[1:57:04] Bob Dobbs: gluon,

[1:57:05] Bob Dobbs: boson,

[1:57:05] Bob Dobbs: graviton,

[1:57:06] Bob Dobbs: and the X particles.

[1:57:07] Bob Dobbs: So,

[1:57:09] Bob Dobbs: yes.

[1:57:09] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,

[1:57:09] Cameron McEwen: so...

[1:57:11] Cameron McEwen: On the next page in the blue text,

[1:57:14] Cameron McEwen: it says,

[1:57:14] Cameron McEwen: Gluons hold the world together.

[1:57:17] Cameron McEwen: And advertising,

[1:57:18] Cameron McEwen: McLuhan used to say,

[1:57:20] Cameron McEwen: was the glue for the industrial age.

[1:57:22] Cameron McEwen: So there you have glue and gluon brought together.

[1:57:26] Cameron McEwen: And on the Tiny Note chart,

[1:57:27] Cameron McEwen: you have the gluons in the context of all of the subatomic particles.

[1:57:33] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.

[1:57:33] Cameron McEwen: And so at some point...

[1:57:37] Cameron McEwen: The relationship of the subatomic particles needs to be considered.

[1:57:43] Bob Dobbs: Yes.

[1:57:46] Bob Dobbs: I try to take concepts from every discipline.

[1:57:49] Bob Dobbs: And so that is the quantum science terms for the holeopathic,

[1:57:57] Bob Dobbs: for the tiny.

[1:57:58] Bob Dobbs: Because remember,

[1:58:02] Bob Dobbs: the left column,

[1:58:03] Bob Dobbs: it's...

[1:58:03] Bob Dobbs: It's called a holeopathic radio slash satellite.

[1:58:06] Bob Dobbs: And then I put a complementary subatomic particle to match that.

[1:58:11] Bob Dobbs: And I think I looked them up and figured out what was the closest to each particular media.

[1:58:17] Bob Dobbs: So,

[1:58:17] Bob Dobbs: yeah,

[1:58:17] Bob Dobbs: I have on page 151,

[1:58:19] Bob Dobbs: the glue for the industrial age is the quote I say,

[1:58:22] Bob Dobbs: McLuhan.

[1:58:22] Bob Dobbs: But what you said was maybe more accurate.

[1:58:25] Bob Dobbs: What did you say?

[1:58:26] Bob Dobbs: Advertising is the glue?

[1:58:29] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,

[1:58:29] Cameron McEwen: I was just reading your quote.

[1:58:32] Bob Dobbs: Okay,

[1:58:33] Bob Dobbs: the glue for the industrial age.

[1:58:35] Bob Dobbs: Oh,

[1:58:35] Bob Dobbs: yeah.

[1:58:35] Bob Dobbs: But advertising is the glue for the industrial age,

[1:58:38] Bob Dobbs: yeah.

[1:58:38] Bob Dobbs: So I do a pun on glue.

[1:58:39] Cameron McEwen: That's actually the quote from McLuhan that was quoted by you.

[1:58:44] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.

[1:58:44] Cameron McEwen: So

[1:58:45] Cameron McEwen: I was quoting you,

[1:58:46] Cameron McEwen: quoting McLuhan.

[1:58:48] Bob Dobbs: And I don't think that's actually what he says that he wears.

[1:58:52] Cameron McEwen: Well,

[1:58:53] Cameron McEwen: I'd have to look that up.

[1:58:54] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.

[1:58:55] Bob Dobbs: If you could find it,

[1:58:55] Bob Dobbs: it'd be good to have the reference point.

[1:58:58] Bob Dobbs: But what are we saying here?

[1:59:07] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,

[1:59:07] Bob Dobbs: we have to understand how the glue is the Gutenberg connecting thing,

[1:59:14] Bob Dobbs: which people think we need.

[1:59:16] Bob Dobbs: But the actual connecting is the resonant interval of the non-connected parts of matter or the non-connected mediumatings.

[1:59:26] Cameron McEwen: Well,

[1:59:26] Cameron McEwen: the thing is,

[1:59:27] Cameron McEwen: glue can be used in various ways.

[1:59:30] Cameron McEwen: So if it's...

[1:59:32] Cameron McEwen: taken as a sort of a natural substance,

[1:59:35] Cameron McEwen: then it's a Gutenberg Galaxy phrase,

[1:59:39] Cameron McEwen: but if it's taken as a subatomic particle,

[1:59:42] Cameron McEwen: then it's electric.

[1:59:46] Cameron McEwen: I ran glue for the industrial age and it doesn't come up in anything.

[1:59:51] Bob Dobbs: Okay,

[1:59:51] Bob Dobbs: yeah.

[1:59:51] Bob Dobbs: See,

[1:59:53] Bob Dobbs: I put it in quotes but didn't give any footnote to what it was.

[1:59:59] Bob Dobbs: But for somehow,

[2:00:00] Bob Dobbs: I'm

[2:00:01] Bob Dobbs: You must have said that at one class,

[2:00:04] Bob Dobbs: you know.

[2:00:05] Cameron McEwen: Sure.

[2:00:06] Bob Dobbs: In the conference.

[2:00:07] Bob Dobbs: Oh,

[2:00:07] Cameron McEwen: it sounds like him.

[2:00:08] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.

[2:00:10] Bob Dobbs: So we're at,

[2:00:11] Bob Dobbs: make a note of this,

[2:00:12] Bob Dobbs: we just did,

[2:00:18] Bob Dobbs: okay,

[2:00:18] Bob Dobbs: what,

[2:00:18] Bob Dobbs: 150 we're on?

[2:00:20] Cameron McEwen: 100,

[2:00:21] Cameron McEwen: wow,

[2:00:22] Cameron McEwen: yeah.

[2:00:23] Cameron McEwen: We actually went on 151 and then came back.

[2:00:27] Bob Dobbs: So we are at the.

[2:00:30] Cameron McEwen: We can start at the bottom of 150 if you think that would be right.

[2:00:35] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,

[2:00:35] Bob Dobbs: I did the commentary.

[2:00:39] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,

[2:00:40] Bob Dobbs: we did that.

[2:00:40] Bob Dobbs: We did that.

[2:00:41] Bob Dobbs: So we will do...

[2:00:45] Cameron McEwen: Start up in the middle of 151?

[2:00:47] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,

[2:00:47] Bob Dobbs: maybe we'll redo my commentary and then get into the message,

[2:00:52] Bob Dobbs: man is still the content,

[2:00:53] Bob Dobbs: and the glue for industrialization,

[2:00:55] Bob Dobbs: and we end up with gluons as a particle,

[2:00:57] Bob Dobbs: and then maybe we'll talk about that.

[2:01:01] Bob Dobbs: Or we'll just go to the next part.

[2:01:02] Bob Dobbs: I'm not sure because we already read that.

[2:01:06] Bob Dobbs: But,

[2:01:06] Bob Dobbs: you know,

[2:01:06] Bob Dobbs: you want more talk about the subatomic particles on the tiny new charts.

[2:01:12] Bob Dobbs: So this next part,

[2:01:16] Bob Dobbs: I'm starting to get into the bodies here.

[2:01:19] Bob Dobbs: So we'll see how it goes.

[2:01:20] Bob Dobbs: You know,

[2:01:21] Bob Dobbs: it'll be two or three weeks from now and things have changed or not.

[2:01:27] Bob Dobbs: And we'll see what we're inspired,

[2:01:29] Bob Dobbs: what we need to repeat here.

[2:01:31] Cameron McEwen: Good,

[2:01:31] Cameron McEwen: good.

[2:01:32] Bob Dobbs: All right.

[2:01:32] Bob Dobbs: So great work there.

[2:01:34] Bob Dobbs: Not more.

[2:01:35] Bob Dobbs: We keep moving ahead.

[2:01:36] Bob Dobbs: Some kind of refinement going on here.

[2:01:40] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,

[2:01:40] Cameron McEwen: I think we're beginning to discern some delineation of the tech body,

[2:01:46] Cameron McEwen: which is the object of the thing.

[2:01:49] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,

[2:01:49] Bob Dobbs: we've retraced the stages and it's working.

[2:01:53] Cameron McEwen: Good.

[2:01:54] Bob Dobbs: You know,

[2:01:54] Bob Dobbs: we're getting to see what this thing is after the Android meme.

[2:01:58] Cameron McEwen: Yes,

[2:01:59] Cameron McEwen: sir.

[2:02:01] Bob Dobbs: And the memes are colloquial now.

[2:02:04] Bob Dobbs: All the kids talk about memes.

[2:02:05] Bob Dobbs: So that's the Android meme as an old environment.

[2:02:08] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.

[2:02:10] Bob Dobbs: Okay,

[2:02:11] Bob Dobbs: man.

[2:02:12] Cameron McEwen: They've become holeopathic.

[2:02:14] Bob Dobbs: Yes.

[2:02:15] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.

[2:02:16] Bob Dobbs: And I laid that out in my 1987 memoir,

[2:02:20] Bob Dobbs: Prince Charles,

[2:02:21] Bob Dobbs: where we all become holeopathic environments on the co-anesthetic level.

[2:02:27] Bob Dobbs: It's hard to...

[2:02:30] Bob Dobbs: to put a social hierarchy on that.

[2:02:36] Bob Dobbs: And all these institutions want to preserve that Gutenberg hierarchy,

[2:02:39] Bob Dobbs: and the kids know more than you,

[2:02:43] Bob Dobbs: but they don't know how they got there.

[2:02:46] Bob Dobbs: And the parents don't know how to explain how they got there,

[2:02:49] Bob Dobbs: so where are the parents,

[2:02:50] Bob Dobbs: you and I?

[2:02:51] Bob Dobbs: We are describing how you,

[2:02:53] Bob Dobbs: as McLuhan says to those kids in that CBC broadcast in 69,

[2:02:58] Bob Dobbs: I'm explaining how you got,

[2:02:59] Bob Dobbs: how this...

[2:03:00] Bob Dobbs: how you got into your shape.

[2:03:01] Bob Dobbs: He says,

[2:03:01] Bob Dobbs: how the shape you got in.

[2:03:03] Bob Dobbs: Do you remember that line?

[2:03:05] Cameron McEwen: Vaguely,

[2:03:05] Cameron McEwen: yeah.

[2:03:06] Bob Dobbs: He says,

[2:03:07] Bob Dobbs: you don't know how you're in this shape or you don't know what's putting you in the shape you're in.

[2:03:12] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.

[2:03:14] Bob Dobbs: That's what we're doing.

[2:03:15] Bob Dobbs: Describing what puts you into this particular shape of holeopathic cliche probing.

[2:03:21] Cameron McEwen: That's right.

[2:03:22] Cameron McEwen: And meanwhile,

[2:03:25] Cameron McEwen: the prince has become the king.

[2:03:28] Bob Dobbs: The prince is.

[2:03:29] Bob Dobbs: The Prince Singular or King Charles?

[2:03:32] Cameron McEwen: The Prince.

[2:03:32] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,

[2:03:33] Cameron McEwen: you were just talking about your letter to the Prince.

[2:03:35] Cameron McEwen: Oh yeah,

[2:03:35] Bob Dobbs: Memo to Prince Charles.

[2:03:37] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.

[2:03:39] Bob Dobbs: That's right.

[2:03:40] Bob Dobbs: There's no Prince.

[2:03:42] Bob Dobbs: There is no kingship there.

[2:03:44] Cameron McEwen: You were saying that basically you had seen something in 1988.

[2:03:50] Bob Dobbs: 87.

[2:03:51] Cameron McEwen: Right?

[2:03:51] Cameron McEwen: And

[2:03:52] Cameron McEwen: I was saying that what you saw in 1988 not only was...

[2:03:59] Cameron McEwen: something,

[2:04:01] Cameron McEwen: by becoming the king,

[2:04:03] Cameron McEwen: it's become everything.

[2:04:04] Bob Dobbs: That's right.

[2:04:05] Bob Dobbs: And,

[2:04:05] Bob Dobbs: you know,

[2:04:06] Bob Dobbs: my memo to Prince Charles is me trying to guide him in the McLuhan knowledge so he could be a better king.

[2:04:14] Bob Dobbs: I was consulting to him.

[2:04:17] Bob Dobbs: That's another story,

[2:04:18] Bob Dobbs: though.

[2:04:18] Bob Dobbs: There's a lot about him we know,

[2:04:20] Bob Dobbs: and that's that.

[2:04:23] Bob Dobbs: Okay,

[2:04:23] Bob Dobbs: man,

[2:04:24] Bob Dobbs: we're cutting it off here.

[2:04:26] Cameron McEwen: Okay,

[2:04:26] Cameron McEwen: good,

[2:04:26] Cameron McEwen: good,

[2:04:27] Cameron McEwen: Bob.

[2:04:27] Cameron McEwen: Thanks.

[2:04:27] Bob Dobbs: Okay,

[2:04:27] Bob Dobbs: thanks a lot,

[2:04:28] Bob Dobbs: Cameron.

[2:04:28] Bob Dobbs: Very good.

[2:04:30] Cameron McEwen: Bye-bye.

[2:04:30] Bob Dobbs: Okay,

[2:04:30] Bob Dobbs: bye.