[00:01] Bob Dobbs: Hello,
[00:02] Bob Dobbs: this is Bob Dobbs.
[00:03] Bob Dobbs: I'm with Cameron McEwen,
[00:05] Bob Dobbs: and we're doing episode number 72 of our series on
[00:12] Bob Dobbs: Donald Trump and the tech body and other stuff that's happening.
[00:16] Bob Dobbs: And we are looking at my text,
[00:20] Bob Dobbs: and we're at the middle of page 150,
[00:24] Bob Dobbs: where I say,
[00:26] Bob Dobbs: if you know,
[00:27] Bob Dobbs: middle of page
[00:28] Cameron McEwen: 151. Yep.
[00:30] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[00:30] Bob Dobbs: where I say,
[00:32] Bob Dobbs: This is after the blue part,
[00:35] Bob Dobbs: so this is the major text.
[00:37] Bob Dobbs: Our communication environments from the printing press on were layered over and through our older linguistic environments.
[00:44] Bob Dobbs: Humans were inevitably servomechanisms of those massive media landscapes,
[00:49] Bob Dobbs: media in quotes.
[00:50] Bob Dobbs: The satellite technology,
[00:52] Bob Dobbs: both in interior and external landscape,
[00:54] Bob Dobbs: was the last of that kind.
[00:57] Bob Dobbs: As digital communication environments developed,
[00:58] Bob Dobbs: they gradually shrunk those massive techno-environments.
[01:02] Bob Dobbs: and inaugurated a new kind of autonomy for our chemical body in relation to the previous scapes.
[01:09] Bob Dobbs: Those scapes?
[01:10] Cameron McEwen: That's a good word.
[01:12] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[01:12] Bob Dobbs: Then I say,
[01:13] Bob Dobbs: now,
[01:13] Bob Dobbs: radio-tv-newspaper-bookscapes,
[01:17] Bob Dobbs: so I'm elaborating on the word scapes.
[01:19] Bob Dobbs: Now,
[01:19] Bob Dobbs: radio-tv-newspaper-bookscapes are in,
[01:21] Bob Dobbs: now,
[01:22] Bob Dobbs: those radio-tv-newspaper-bookscapes are inside your personal mobile,
[01:28] Bob Dobbs: tiny and invisible.
[01:30] Bob Dobbs: These older media become after-images,
[01:32] Bob Dobbs: or memes,
[01:33] Bob Dobbs: as well as huge bureaucracies to preserve the wealth they'd created.
[01:38] Bob Dobbs: They don't go away,
[01:39] Bob Dobbs: just as ye old speech never disappeared.
[01:42] Bob Dobbs: They are as real and insistent as our own bodies.
[01:45] Bob Dobbs: They must be fed and housed.
[01:47] Bob Dobbs: However,
[01:48] Bob Dobbs: what once were large corporate vestments now are small enough to be considered as organs,
[01:53] Bob Dobbs: like lungs,
[01:54] Bob Dobbs: that are new additions to our archetypal chemical body and astral body.
[01:58] Bob Dobbs: So I have chemical body and astral body as kind of given by first nature,
[02:03] Bob Dobbs: you know,
[02:04] Bob Dobbs: even though science has overlaid the description of our physical bodies with chemical body knowledge,
[02:12] Bob Dobbs: which you actually talk about,
[02:14] Bob Dobbs: you know,
[02:14] Bob Dobbs: from 200 years ago.
[02:16] Bob Dobbs: And astral body is religion and human aspiration,
[02:23] Bob Dobbs: faith,
[02:24] Bob Dobbs: hope,
[02:24] Bob Dobbs: charity,
[02:25] Bob Dobbs: and weird psychic experiences.
[02:28] Bob Dobbs: to what people think is not physical.
[02:33] Bob Dobbs: So
[02:35] Bob Dobbs: I say that,
[02:36] Bob Dobbs: that's pretty straightforward,
[02:37] Bob Dobbs: right?
[02:39] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[02:39] Cameron McEwen: although to me it seems like,
[02:45] Cameron McEwen: number one,
[02:47] Cameron McEwen: a little bit of a new idea in the pamphlet,
[02:49] Cameron McEwen: and number two,
[02:51] Cameron McEwen: it seems like a very important idea that we should...
[02:57] Cameron McEwen: Maybe talk about it a little bit.
[02:59] Bob Dobbs: Okay,
[03:01] Bob Dobbs: why did you say the word pamphlet?
[03:03] Cameron McEwen: I said it seems to me that that marks a kind of turning point in the pamphlet.
[03:10] Bob Dobbs: Oh,
[03:10] Bob Dobbs: okay.
[03:12] Cameron McEwen: This idea of bureaucracies developing as scapes,
[03:21] Cameron McEwen: I like that idea very much.
[03:23] Cameron McEwen: And
[03:25] Cameron McEwen: I really didn't give much thought to it.
[03:26] Cameron McEwen: when I read the pamphlet before.
[03:30] Cameron McEwen: And
[03:31] Cameron McEwen: I can see that what you're going to get to is a different kind of organicism.
[03:43] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[03:44] Bob Dobbs: So
[03:44] Bob Dobbs: I would say about the scapes,
[03:47] Bob Dobbs: what the revolutionaries,
[03:48] Bob Dobbs: anarchists,
[03:49] Bob Dobbs: right,
[03:49] Bob Dobbs: left,
[03:49] Bob Dobbs: center,
[03:50] Bob Dobbs: missed is that the old media environments would be bureaucratized.
[03:54] Bob Dobbs: They've become part of the collective wealth,
[03:56] Bob Dobbs: right?
[03:57] Bob Dobbs: And part of our memories.
[03:58] Bob Dobbs: So you have huge employment in museums and movie,
[04:03] Bob Dobbs: Hollywood,
[04:05] Bob Dobbs: Disneyland archives.
[04:06] Bob Dobbs: No,
[04:06] Bob Dobbs: what is it?
[04:07] Bob Dobbs: Hollywood.
[04:09] Bob Dobbs: Well,
[04:10] Bob Dobbs: they got in New York City,
[04:11] Bob Dobbs: they got the huge museum of broadcasting.
[04:14] Bob Dobbs: And they got all this stuff.
[04:16] Bob Dobbs: Now,
[04:17] Bob Dobbs: that is what can occupy people's attention,
[04:19] Bob Dobbs: all this old media.
[04:21] Bob Dobbs: And it's all there.
[04:22] Bob Dobbs: They're growing these bureaucracies.
[04:25] Bob Dobbs: What would you topple today?
[04:27] Bob Dobbs: Nobody's going to listen to,
[04:29] Bob Dobbs: you know,
[04:29] Bob Dobbs: okay,
[04:30] Bob Dobbs: you're going to get me a job so I can have better food or not starve and get off welfare or something?
[04:35] Bob Dobbs: You know,
[04:35] Bob Dobbs: you're going to kick out the capitalists?
[04:37] Bob Dobbs: It's so puny,
[04:39] Bob Dobbs: that enemy,
[04:40] Bob Dobbs: because you've got this psychic weight on people of all the wealth.
[04:47] Bob Dobbs: You know,
[04:47] Bob Dobbs: people made lots of money,
[04:49] Bob Dobbs: you know,
[04:50] Bob Dobbs: in Hollywood,
[04:52] Bob Dobbs: the guys that hijacked the circus of the movie medium,
[04:55] Bob Dobbs: but they created a collective language like our verbal language.
[04:58] Bob Dobbs: It's a huge storehouse of stuff that everybody owns,
[05:01] Bob Dobbs: you know what I mean?
[05:02] Bob Dobbs: And then now we've got this digital media and everybody can,
[05:04] Bob Dobbs: they've got whole channels dedicated to this stuff.
[05:07] Bob Dobbs: So the wealth is way beyond chemical body kings and queens and Rockefellers,
[05:14] Bob Dobbs: you know what I mean?
[05:14] Bob Dobbs: That's what...
[05:17] Cameron McEwen: You seem to be talking about a different economic system.
[05:22] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[05:23] Cameron McEwen: It's not capitalism.
[05:24] Cameron McEwen: It's not socialism.
[05:27] Cameron McEwen: It's something else.
[05:30] Cameron McEwen: Number one,
[05:31] Cameron McEwen: it's alive.
[05:34] Cameron McEwen: Number two,
[05:36] Cameron McEwen: it's not seen because it's so big.
[05:40] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[05:41] Cameron McEwen: It's so ubiquitous.
[05:43] Bob Dobbs: And the young kids,
[05:44] Bob Dobbs: they go to college.
[05:46] Bob Dobbs: and they're getting book knowledge,
[05:47] Bob Dobbs: but their real task is to find out how much of the past wealth in movies,
[05:52] Bob Dobbs: TVs,
[05:53] Bob Dobbs: radio,
[05:53] Bob Dobbs: music,
[05:54] Bob Dobbs: and everything else,
[05:55] Bob Dobbs: and museums,
[05:56] Bob Dobbs: and
[05:56] Bob Dobbs: Gutenberg arts,
[05:57] Bob Dobbs: all that wealth,
[05:59] Bob Dobbs: they have to figure out,
[06:00] Bob Dobbs: go get familiar with it.
[06:01] Bob Dobbs: So basically,
[06:03] Bob Dobbs: you've got to put them in a tube,
[06:05] Bob Dobbs: like in the Matrix,
[06:07] Bob Dobbs: say from 18 to 28,
[06:08] Bob Dobbs: so they can catch up.
[06:09] Bob Dobbs: And that's what they are doing anyways.
[06:12] Bob Dobbs: A lot of these young kids,
[06:13] Bob Dobbs: they watch old movies,
[06:14] Bob Dobbs: they watch everything,
[06:15] Bob Dobbs: all this old stuff.
[06:16] Bob Dobbs: They spend about 10 years just finding out what happened,
[06:20] Bob Dobbs: right?
[06:21] Bob Dobbs: And so it's a new kind of education,
[06:23] Bob Dobbs: a new university,
[06:24] Bob Dobbs: actually,
[06:25] Bob Dobbs: that the young person has to go through.
[06:31] Cameron McEwen: But are they graduating or are they just going to the classes,
[06:37] Cameron McEwen: but at the end of the day they're not getting it?
[06:39] Bob Dobbs: There's no...
[06:40] Bob Dobbs: there's no schooling or pattern recognition about it,
[06:43] Bob Dobbs: but that's what McLuhan offered.
[06:44] Bob Dobbs: This is the new curriculum.
[06:46] Bob Dobbs: It's about what these media archives are,
[06:49] Bob Dobbs: what these scapes are.
[06:50] Bob Dobbs: So he created the new curriculum.
[06:52] Bob Dobbs: But I just wanted to say that,
[06:53] Bob Dobbs: so you have also the disservices of these media.
[06:57] Bob Dobbs: They broke up the family.
[06:58] Bob Dobbs: McLuhan said,
[06:59] Bob Dobbs: if you have a car,
[07:00] Bob Dobbs: you can't have a nuclear family.
[07:02] Bob Dobbs: So that goes back to the 20s.
[07:04] Bob Dobbs: So anyways,
[07:04] Bob Dobbs: even the description of what America's social life is about or
[07:09] Bob Dobbs: The Western world,
[07:12] Bob Dobbs: the church,
[07:13] Bob Dobbs: country,
[07:13] Bob Dobbs: religion,
[07:13] Bob Dobbs: and family stuff is not really applicable to how people live.
[07:18] Bob Dobbs: So many people,
[07:19] Bob Dobbs: they don't have parents,
[07:21] Bob Dobbs: they don't have any income,
[07:23] Bob Dobbs: so they get a McDonald's job or some cheap job,
[07:27] Bob Dobbs: and then they still got to get,
[07:30] Bob Dobbs: as part of their mental health,
[07:31] Bob Dobbs: they have to feel that they're tuning into something.
[07:34] Bob Dobbs: And what is this about?
[07:35] Bob Dobbs: What has humanity done?
[07:37] Bob Dobbs: And so they...
[07:38] Bob Dobbs: They went to Blockbuster 20,
[07:40] Bob Dobbs: 30 years ago,
[07:41] Bob Dobbs: right?
[07:41] Bob Dobbs: Everybody would go there on the weekend and get all the videos.
[07:44] Bob Dobbs: So they're always looking at stuff with their girlfriends and boyfriends and all that while dealing with their kids that they got pregnant.
[07:54] Bob Dobbs: All this chaos of trying to keep the chemical body survived going while the real pressure is finding out what happened and what am I supposed to do and what opportunities are there for me.
[08:07] Bob Dobbs: to engage these new bureaucracies.
[08:11] Bob Dobbs: That's the new employment agencies.
[08:16] Cameron McEwen: I think that's interesting.
[08:17] Cameron McEwen: I don't have direct comments on it because I haven't given it enough thought,
[08:22] Cameron McEwen: but
[08:23] Cameron McEwen: I think it's a whole new way of talking about this stuff because there's a lot of words.
[08:33] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[08:34] Bob Dobbs: it just occurred to me.
[08:35] Bob Dobbs: You know what McLuhan's word for this is when I'm talking about?
[08:37] Bob Dobbs: Mini-states.
[08:38] Bob Dobbs: He started talking about mini-states in the late 60s.
[08:41] Bob Dobbs: And,
[08:41] Bob Dobbs: you know,
[08:42] Bob Dobbs: the music industry was a mini-state.
[08:44] Bob Dobbs: The military was a mini-state.
[08:45] Bob Dobbs: Intelligence activities were mini-states.
[08:48] Bob Dobbs: Rotary was a mini-state.
[08:49] Bob Dobbs: Everything was a mini-state.
[08:50] Bob Dobbs: That would be the beginning of the bureaucracies,
[08:53] Bob Dobbs: but they were more implosive and more digitized and computerized gradually.
[09:01] Bob Dobbs: But they're still there.
[09:04] Bob Dobbs: And now there's a problem with the digitizing of these mini-states,
[09:08] Bob Dobbs: so there's less employment there almost.
[09:13] Cameron McEwen: I think I hear you saying that there's a kind of evolution going on where these mini-states slash archives slash scapes begin
[09:27] Cameron McEwen: as recognizable figures.
[09:31] Cameron McEwen: That's a kind of primitive protozoa,
[09:35] Cameron McEwen: and they then evolve into other kinds of figures that we don't know how to relate to yet.
[09:44] Bob Dobbs: Okay,
[09:44] Cameron McEwen: that is...
[09:46] Cameron McEwen: Go ahead.
[09:46] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[09:46] Bob Dobbs: that reminds me.
[09:47] Bob Dobbs: So the electronic reality and the digital reality impels great participation.
[09:52] Bob Dobbs: So what is motivating a lot of young people is to make an impact in these old scapes.
[09:59] Bob Dobbs: So they try to get into movies or they try to get into video or to music.
[10:02] Bob Dobbs: They want to be in there.
[10:04] Bob Dobbs: So while the kids are studying or just learning all the backlog of media experiences they can get,
[10:10] Bob Dobbs: all the mini states,
[10:11] Bob Dobbs: they are trying to be part of it and create new stuff.
[10:14] Bob Dobbs: So you have an incredible...
[10:16] Bob Dobbs: uh...
[10:17] Bob Dobbs: popular creativity going on and only one or two ever uh...
[10:22] Bob Dobbs: a career out of it it doesn't stop locally people being in band or making videos are having little collective than trying to create something right they want to contribute to the collective languages these keeps their so
[10:37] Bob Dobbs: that i've got everybody how are you going to get anybody to pay attention to any of the old group bird uh...
[10:42] Bob Dobbs: programs of education a revolution occur
[10:45] Bob Dobbs: improvement or humanism,
[10:47] Bob Dobbs: whatever,
[10:47] Bob Dobbs: all those things that the Gutenberg era thought they were doing,
[10:51] Bob Dobbs: the kids are too distracted.
[10:53] Bob Dobbs: And they're not even kids compared to their parents in terms of experience.
[10:57] Bob Dobbs: You know,
[10:58] Bob Dobbs: you can't even call them children anymore.
[11:00] Bob Dobbs: They are little bodies that are absorbing.
[11:04] Bob Dobbs: Their dangling ganglia is eating all these scapes in many states.
[11:09] Bob Dobbs: And that's where we live today.
[11:11] Bob Dobbs: And politics and any of these normal institutional things have nothing to say to that.
[11:15] Bob Dobbs: They don't know what to do with that.
[11:21] Bob Dobbs: So that makes our world more a world of anarchy,
[11:26] Bob Dobbs: as McLuhan said.
[11:28] Bob Dobbs: Anarchy on the disservice level.
[11:32] Cameron McEwen: So am I right that what you're suggesting with all this is that...
[11:41] Cameron McEwen: We're in a new kind of evolution where language itself is evolving and the problem that people have is that they think of themselves and
[11:56] Cameron McEwen: think of the world in terms of the language that no longer applies.
[12:01] Bob Dobbs: Right.
[12:02] Cameron McEwen: And now they have to learn a new language but going from language to language is a very difficult thing.
[12:10] Bob Dobbs: And it's all,
[12:11] Bob Dobbs: and I was talking to somebody the other day how,
[12:14] Bob Dobbs: you know,
[12:14] Bob Dobbs: a kid can look up anything really fast.
[12:17] Bob Dobbs: So compared to previous cultures,
[12:20] Bob Dobbs: you might as well say you can Google anything.
[12:24] Bob Dobbs: Kids don't even want to learn anything of the Gutenberg world because it's all there in Google.
[12:30] Bob Dobbs: You might as well,
[12:31] Bob Dobbs: since they can find out something in five seconds,
[12:33] Bob Dobbs: they've got ESP compared to
[12:36] Bob Dobbs: 200 years ago where nobody knew anything.
[12:40] Bob Dobbs: and take a while to read one book,
[12:42] Bob Dobbs: look how slow the input of information was compared to today.
[12:45] Bob Dobbs: So we're in a very,
[12:48] Bob Dobbs: you could take the most science fiction or new age fantasy of Atlantis or some retrieved utopia of ESP.
[12:55] Bob Dobbs: We live that today,
[12:57] Bob Dobbs: and we don't have the proper language for that,
[13:00] Bob Dobbs: because it's not old-fashioned ESP,
[13:03] Bob Dobbs: but it is close to that,
[13:05] Bob Dobbs: but something even more extraordinary.
[13:07] Bob Dobbs: In other words...
[13:08] Bob Dobbs: We're in such a miraculous situation that everybody's mute,
[13:12] Bob Dobbs: deaf,
[13:12] Bob Dobbs: and dumb,
[13:13] Bob Dobbs: as McLuhan says,
[13:14] Bob Dobbs: right?
[13:15] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[13:15] Bob Dobbs: In front of this.
[13:18] Cameron McEwen: Isn't it the case that
[13:20] Cameron McEwen: 200 years ago,
[13:23] Cameron McEwen: there was no width to people's knowledge,
[13:27] Cameron McEwen: but there was depth?
[13:28] Cameron McEwen: And now what's happened is that there's tremendous width,
[13:32] Cameron McEwen: unlimited width,
[13:33] Cameron McEwen: but almost no depth.
[13:35] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[13:35] Bob Dobbs: and you get depth by having a framework which would come from language,
[13:38] Bob Dobbs: but it doesn't come from verbal language.
[13:41] Bob Dobbs: And that's what I see we're trying to do.
[13:43] Bob Dobbs: We're trying to present the problem.
[13:45] Bob Dobbs: Knowing and exploring the problem gives you a language.
[13:50] Cameron McEwen: Okay,
[13:50] Cameron McEwen: that's interesting.
[13:52] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[13:53] Bob Dobbs: you have the questions,
[13:54] Bob Dobbs: not the answers.
[13:55] Bob Dobbs: And it's not verbal questions,
[13:56] Bob Dobbs: so you have to use that.
[13:57] Bob Dobbs: But we're always talking beyond the words that we're addressing,
[14:01] Bob Dobbs: right?
[14:02] Bob Dobbs: It's a law that...
[14:03] Bob Dobbs: We're not going to use words that I've got to use with you,
[14:06] Bob Dobbs: you know?
[14:06] Bob Dobbs: We're trying to get past that.
[14:09] Bob Dobbs: And all the arts are about that all through the last hundred years.
[14:12] Bob Dobbs: They're all trying to communicate beyond the canvas or beyond the symphony,
[14:17] Bob Dobbs: beyond whatever
[14:18] Bob Dobbs: Gutenberg media art they're working with.
[14:21] Bob Dobbs: They're trying to show there's new communications going on,
[14:24] Bob Dobbs: new effects,
[14:25] Bob Dobbs: new vibrations.
[14:26] Bob Dobbs: And that is what...
[14:30] Bob Dobbs: politicians should talk about or anybody who pretends that they have a program for the population to create some kind of social order or something you know that's why when i went on the radio i i was running i used to call i'm running for king of canada you know i'm presenting my program and i'm the only one talking about what's going on i'm the only one's going on so i should be king through
[14:53] Bob Dobbs: through the authority of knowledge quoting McLuhan but that's what
[14:58] Bob Dobbs: We need better kings or candidates for this.
[15:02] Cameron McEwen: Definitely,
[15:03] Cameron McEwen: definitely.
[15:04] Cameron McEwen: Well,
[15:04] Cameron McEwen: people don't understand,
[15:09] Cameron McEwen: it's not a question of not understanding a language,
[15:11] Cameron McEwen: it's a question of not even recognizing that a new language is needed.
[15:17] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[15:18] Bob Dobbs: and that they're engaging the new language by wanting to participate and make videos and do whatever they do with all the media they have in their palm pilot
[15:27] Bob Dobbs: 20 years ago.
[15:28] Bob Dobbs: What have they got now,
[15:29] Bob Dobbs: a smartphone?
[15:30] Bob Dobbs: What are people using today?
[15:33] Bob Dobbs: What do they call?
[15:34] Bob Dobbs: Is it usually just a phone?
[15:36] Bob Dobbs: Is that what everything's on now?
[15:39] Cameron McEwen: I guess.
[15:40] Cameron McEwen: I really don't understand that because I'm too old to be comfortable doing everything on my phone.
[15:46] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[15:46] Bob Dobbs: and I don't even have one.
[15:47] Bob Dobbs: So
[15:49] Bob Dobbs: I've been removed.
[15:52] Bob Dobbs: But anyways,
[15:53] Bob Dobbs: whatever they use,
[15:55] Bob Dobbs: they have a lot.
[15:56] Bob Dobbs: The apps,
[15:57] Bob Dobbs: I guess.
[15:57] Bob Dobbs: Let's just call it the app economy.
[16:02] Bob Dobbs: The app and keeping up with it and trying it out.
[16:06] Bob Dobbs: And then the old fogies like Instagram or Facebook or
[16:09] Bob Dobbs: TikTok, you know,
[16:10] Bob Dobbs: they're old archetypes already.
[16:13] Bob Dobbs: It's all people trying to communicate.
[16:14] Bob Dobbs: And you look at the TikTok,
[16:16] Bob Dobbs: there's millions made every day.
[16:18] Bob Dobbs: That's language.
[16:19] Bob Dobbs: That's people participating and communicating,
[16:22] Bob Dobbs: right?
[16:22] Bob Dobbs: Yes,
[16:23] Bob Dobbs: absolutely.
[16:24] Bob Dobbs: And they're usually mocking the old.
[16:27] Bob Dobbs: um uh what are they called though the old media digital media the old uh forget the term uh scapes what yeah scapes but what do they call the um
[16:46] Bob Dobbs: um yeah legacy yeah well legacy's a that's a pop culture but what um that's funny just media all the media but what is analog
[16:56] Bob Dobbs: that's the word I'm looking for,
[16:58] Bob Dobbs: the analog media.
[17:00] Bob Dobbs: That's what everybody is yelling at,
[17:02] Bob Dobbs: the analog media.
[17:04] Bob Dobbs: You know,
[17:04] Bob Dobbs: news,
[17:06] Bob Dobbs: the,
[17:06] Bob Dobbs: quote,
[17:06] Bob Dobbs: legacy media,
[17:07] Bob Dobbs: all the old archetypes,
[17:10] Bob Dobbs: TV,
[17:10] Bob Dobbs: radio,
[17:11] Bob Dobbs: and computers and that,
[17:14] Bob Dobbs: which don't exist in the Android meme.
[17:18] Bob Dobbs: The kids don't grow up with television.
[17:21] Bob Dobbs: Kroker has it down when he calls it a screenal economy,
[17:24] Bob Dobbs: and maybe other people did too.
[17:26] Bob Dobbs: in the 90s,
[17:26] Bob Dobbs: but it's a screenal existence,
[17:28] Bob Dobbs: right?
[17:28] Bob Dobbs: The screen.
[17:30] Bob Dobbs: And it's not limited to
[17:32] Bob Dobbs: TV or your computer.
[17:34] Bob Dobbs: It's some floating,
[17:36] Bob Dobbs: weird environment,
[17:37] Bob Dobbs: which I call the indoor meme,
[17:38] Bob Dobbs: but now it's become the tech body,
[17:40] Bob Dobbs: which is something even more strange.
[17:43] Bob Dobbs: So yeah,
[17:43] Bob Dobbs: I was trying to...
[17:44] Bob Dobbs: The legacy,
[17:45] Bob Dobbs: the analog media is what people are fighting.
[17:49] Bob Dobbs: And those analog media are not there.
[17:51] Bob Dobbs: They're fighting after images.
[17:53] Bob Dobbs: So we're communicating...
[17:56] Bob Dobbs: because we don't have up-to-date perception,
[17:59] Bob Dobbs: we're fighting specters constantly.
[18:02] Bob Dobbs: And that is what seems to be worth participating in.
[18:07] Bob Dobbs: The people don't see that as specters,
[18:09] Bob Dobbs: right?
[18:11] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[18:11] Cameron McEwen: yeah,
[18:11] Cameron McEwen: absolutely.
[18:12] Cameron McEwen: That's what
[18:13] Cameron McEwen: McLuhan was already talking,
[18:16] Cameron McEwen: I believe,
[18:17] Cameron McEwen: in the 50s.
[18:18] Cameron McEwen: He used the word haunting.
[18:20] Bob Dobbs: That's right.
[18:21] Bob Dobbs: And he used the word specter,
[18:24] Bob Dobbs: too.
[18:24] Bob Dobbs: Now,
[18:25] Bob Dobbs: when you...
[18:26] Bob Dobbs: When we talk like I'm talking,
[18:29] Bob Dobbs: and then I have someone like you who understands it and then supports it so we can keep moving forward and trying to articulate it,
[18:37] Bob Dobbs: McLuhan's language is so obviously the best stuff as an anchor to refer to,
[18:42] Bob Dobbs: because like he would go and look in Finnegans Wake and see that what he was thinking with Eric was already in the wake.
[18:48] Bob Dobbs: Well,
[18:49] Bob Dobbs: whatever we come up with,
[18:50] Bob Dobbs: we can find stuff in McLuhan where he's saying the same thing,
[18:53] Bob Dobbs: right?
[18:54] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.
[18:54] Cameron McEwen: Yes,
[18:54] Cameron McEwen: sir.
[18:55] Bob Dobbs: And all that stuff in all his books,
[18:57] Bob Dobbs: nobody knows.
[18:58] Bob Dobbs: Nobody uses it.
[19:00] Bob Dobbs: Like,
[19:01] Bob Dobbs: you've been writing McLuhan stuff for 20 years,
[19:03] Bob Dobbs: say.
[19:04] Bob Dobbs: There's so much in McLuhan to entertain you,
[19:09] Bob Dobbs: to excavate.
[19:10] Bob Dobbs: That's another thing,
[19:11] Bob Dobbs: right?
[19:12] Bob Dobbs: It's incredible how little people know what McLuhan did.
[19:18] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[19:20] Cameron McEwen: there's a huge sort of trench.
[19:24] Cameron McEwen: in between the little use that's made of McLuhan and what could be made of McLuhan.
[19:33] Cameron McEwen: And it's not a question of sort of reading a biblical script.
[19:40] Cameron McEwen: It's a question of learning how to question,
[19:45] Cameron McEwen: which was sort of his way of navigating.
[19:50] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[19:50] Bob Dobbs: he knew that was his way of moving beyond the Gutenberg world and the Gutenberg words.
[19:57] Bob Dobbs: And so the,
[19:59] Bob Dobbs: what were you saying there,
[20:01] Bob Dobbs: the,
[20:10] Bob Dobbs: even his way of just skimming the surface and categorizing things in
[20:16] Bob Dobbs: passing,
[20:17] Bob Dobbs: like say streaking.
[20:18] Bob Dobbs: I always like to cite that one,
[20:19] Bob Dobbs: the streaking thing.
[20:23] Bob Dobbs: It was a surface bubbling foamy world.
[20:26] Bob Dobbs: It didn't require depth analysis,
[20:29] Bob Dobbs: but it did require understanding you were in the well of loneliness or the well of tactile acoustic space.
[20:38] Bob Dobbs: So visual anchors aren't going to work.
[20:42] Bob Dobbs: So he could talk about everything and skim over everything.
[20:46] Bob Dobbs: And so I've heard different people through the years say,
[20:48] Bob Dobbs: you know,
[20:48] Bob Dobbs: I can't,
[20:49] Bob Dobbs: you know,
[20:49] Bob Dobbs: I don't get any out of McLuhan.
[20:51] Bob Dobbs: It's popcorn.
[20:53] Bob Dobbs: So they go back and they try to write novels or books.
[20:57] Bob Dobbs: They don't get that the depth that they are nostalgic for is solved by the way McLuhan handled the information pattern recognition pressures.
[21:07] Bob Dobbs: You know what I mean?
[21:07] Bob Dobbs: That's what he was.
[21:08] Cameron McEwen: Yes,
[21:08] Cameron McEwen: sir.
[21:08] Bob Dobbs: He understood how to respond.
[21:10] Bob Dobbs: So he's giving you questions or how to talk about it without.
[21:15] Bob Dobbs: getting bogged down with looking for categories that you're going to worship,
[21:20] Bob Dobbs: you know?
[21:21] Bob Dobbs: So,
[21:22] Bob Dobbs: now that's where they say postmodernism,
[21:25] Bob Dobbs: postmodern authors deal with the surface.
[21:27] Bob Dobbs: They don't try to have totality.
[21:29] Bob Dobbs: What is it?
[21:31] Bob Dobbs: They don't try to be totalistic,
[21:32] Bob Dobbs: right?
[21:33] Bob Dobbs: Which was a Gutenberg thing.
[21:35] Bob Dobbs: They're trying to wrap it all up,
[21:36] Bob Dobbs: which many they accuse Pound and
[21:40] Bob Dobbs: Joyce of being trying to be totalistic,
[21:42] Bob Dobbs: but I don't think they were.
[21:43] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[21:44] Bob Dobbs: Postmodern studies understood,
[21:47] Bob Dobbs: or
[21:47] Bob Dobbs: Baudrillardian people,
[21:49] Bob Dobbs: they understood that it's all just partial,
[21:53] Bob Dobbs: this pattern recognition.
[21:56] Bob Dobbs: And so we're not trying to write the book that sums it all up.
[21:59] Bob Dobbs: They're not looking for a theory of everything.
[22:01] Bob Dobbs: The actual theory of everything is Finnegans Wake,
[22:04] Bob Dobbs: which,
[22:04] Bob Dobbs: you know,
[22:05] Bob Dobbs: does the macro and the micro,
[22:07] Bob Dobbs: the general relativity and the subatomic or the quantum.
[22:12] Bob Dobbs: It's done by the wake.
[22:14] Bob Dobbs: If you want to have that afterimage of the book arriving,
[22:20] Bob Dobbs: remember,
[22:22] Bob Dobbs: the world will end in a book?
[22:23] Bob Dobbs: What's that quote from the 19th century guy?
[22:28] Bob Dobbs: The world will end in a book,
[22:30] Bob Dobbs: said
[22:30] Bob Dobbs: Mallarmé or somebody.
[22:31] Bob Dobbs: Do you know that quote?
[22:32] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[22:32] Cameron McEwen: it's Mallarmé.
[22:33] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[22:34] Bob Dobbs: what is it?
[22:35] Bob Dobbs: The world...
[22:37] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[22:38] Cameron McEwen: something to end in a book.
[22:39] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[22:40] Bob Dobbs: that is...
[22:41] Bob Dobbs: What Pound and
[22:43] Bob Dobbs: Eliot, or Joyce,
[22:44] Bob Dobbs: put on,
[22:45] Bob Dobbs: that impulse,
[22:47] Bob Dobbs: but they recognized,
[22:48] Bob Dobbs: or at least Joyce,
[22:49] Bob Dobbs: I think,
[22:49] Bob Dobbs: recognized,
[22:51] Bob Dobbs: he's not going to do that.
[22:52] Bob Dobbs: You don't need to end it in a book.
[22:54] Bob Dobbs: And,
[22:54] Bob Dobbs: of course,
[22:54] Bob Dobbs: McLuhan comes along and says in the 50s,
[22:57] Bob Dobbs: what is the role of the book?
[22:59] Bob Dobbs: And he figured out how to use the book among other media.
[23:04] Bob Dobbs: And so he is the last writer,
[23:06] Bob Dobbs: and so he's ironic for people because he's dismissing the book as he writes it.
[23:10] Bob Dobbs: you've got to understand that the book is just there to anchor that part of your history and your brain that was conditioned by the Gutenberg Galaxy.
[23:22] Bob Dobbs: And that's a conditioned response.
[23:23] Bob Dobbs: So you meet that.
[23:24] Bob Dobbs: You bring visual space back into the integration,
[23:27] Bob Dobbs: integrating all the senses,
[23:29] Bob Dobbs: and therefore all these extensions.
[23:31] Bob Dobbs: So he used the book perfectly.
[23:33] Bob Dobbs: And he often get other people to write them for him,
[23:35] Bob Dobbs: right?
[23:37] Cameron McEwen: That's right.
[23:38] Bob Dobbs: And so I see that as the
[23:40] Bob Dobbs: proper way to respond to what's going on.
[23:43] Bob Dobbs: So it's not only that he knew what was going on,
[23:45] Bob Dobbs: he knew how to respond in a world of communication.
[23:51] Bob Dobbs: In how to go beyond,
[23:54] Bob Dobbs: I've got to use words for you.
[23:56] Bob Dobbs: McLuhan was not stuck in the words.
[23:58] Bob Dobbs: So it's incredible when you see today,
[24:02] Bob Dobbs: over the last 10 years,
[24:03] Bob Dobbs: say,
[24:04] Bob Dobbs: It's been a revival in a certain way in journalism of people quoting McLuhan,
[24:07] Bob Dobbs: especially in the social media world,
[24:10] Bob Dobbs: saying,
[24:10] Bob Dobbs: oh,
[24:11] Bob Dobbs: this McLuhan,
[24:11] Bob Dobbs: he speaks to our world,
[24:13] Bob Dobbs: and they don't know anything what he said.
[24:16] Bob Dobbs: And they think it's the medium is the message or global theater or something.
[24:19] Bob Dobbs: It's a few trivial things,
[24:21] Bob Dobbs: and they,
[24:22] Bob Dobbs: oh,
[24:22] Bob Dobbs: this guy is really close.
[24:24] Bob Dobbs: We could,
[24:25] Bob Dobbs: you know,
[24:26] Bob Dobbs: he's a guide for us.
[24:27] Bob Dobbs: Let's go beyond McLuhan and do what he wasn't allowed around to live.
[24:33] Bob Dobbs: and to see.
[24:34] Bob Dobbs: And yet,
[24:35] Bob Dobbs: there's so much in his books that you won't be able to come up with anything once you became aware of the other stuff.
[24:41] Bob Dobbs: You just keep quoting McLuhan in all the variety that you do.
[24:47] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[24:48] Cameron McEwen: it's a different use of language.
[24:50] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[24:53] Bob Dobbs: that's why it might look tedious if someone looked at your inventory.
[24:57] Bob Dobbs: What is he doing?
[24:58] Bob Dobbs: He's categorizing you as doing an Aristotle of everything that could be talked about.
[25:02] Bob Dobbs: But you keep doing it because the fun of it is you're doing this surface pattern recognition.
[25:08] Cameron McEwen: Right,
[25:09] Cameron McEwen: right.
[25:10] Cameron McEwen: Trying to bring out how the depth is in the surface.
[25:15] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[25:15] Bob Dobbs: yeah.
[25:16] Bob Dobbs: And those terms are irrelevant.
[25:18] Bob Dobbs: It's there.
[25:20] Bob Dobbs: Well,
[25:20] Bob Dobbs: we call it depth,
[25:21] Bob Dobbs: call it surface.
[25:22] Bob Dobbs: It is,
[25:23] Bob Dobbs: like his term,
[25:23] Bob Dobbs: it's pattern recognition,
[25:25] Bob Dobbs: which is what we live by.
[25:26] Bob Dobbs: And that's the participatory demand on everybody is to keep up.
[25:31] Bob Dobbs: with making a pattern recognition that works for you.
[25:35] Bob Dobbs: And then you see if it relates to your community or whatever mediascape you think is important that you want to match with.
[25:43] Bob Dobbs: So if you look at this British paper,
[25:46] Bob Dobbs: I think it's called the Daily Mail,
[25:49] Bob Dobbs: they got
[25:51] Bob Dobbs: 50 damn stories on the side about millions of stars.
[25:56] Bob Dobbs: There's so many TV shows,
[25:57] Bob Dobbs: so many movies.
[25:58] Bob Dobbs: You know,
[25:58] Bob Dobbs: I don't know any of them.
[26:00] Bob Dobbs: Do you know what I mean?
[26:00] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[26:01] Bob Dobbs: yeah.
[26:02] Bob Dobbs: And you just look at all these nobodies who are famous for a millisecond,
[26:09] Bob Dobbs: and then they disappear,
[26:10] Bob Dobbs: but they are in the content on the side of the Daily Mail page every day,
[26:16] Bob Dobbs: all these people.
[26:18] Bob Dobbs: I mean,
[26:18] Bob Dobbs: what is it that
[26:20] Bob Dobbs: Warhol came up with in the 70s?
[26:24] Bob Dobbs: So in the 60s,
[26:25] Bob Dobbs: he said...
[26:26] Bob Dobbs: Everybody will be famous in 15 minutes.
[26:28] Bob Dobbs: So what he said in the
[26:29] Bob Dobbs: 70s was,
[26:30] Bob Dobbs: in 15 minutes,
[26:32] Bob Dobbs: everybody will be famous.
[26:35] Bob Dobbs: That's where we got.
[26:38] Bob Dobbs: There's so many people that have jobs in the different entertainment media,
[26:44] Bob Dobbs: including the influencers just on
[26:47] Bob Dobbs: YouTube or Instagram,
[26:48] Bob Dobbs: wherever they are in the digital landscape.
[26:51] Bob Dobbs: There's lots of people having careers and being famous for a little while there.
[26:55] Bob Dobbs: and being influential and then getting burnt out.
[26:58] Bob Dobbs: Most of them end up getting burnt out,
[27:00] Bob Dobbs: and that's what we're talking about is a means for overcoming being burnt out.
[27:07] Bob Dobbs: So there's just thousands of people every day getting somewheres,
[27:14] Bob Dobbs: but there's always the anxiety that,
[27:15] Bob Dobbs: of course,
[27:16] Bob Dobbs: you're going to be kicked out pretty soon.
[27:19] Bob Dobbs: So where's your security?
[27:21] Bob Dobbs: Where's your economic security?
[27:23] Bob Dobbs: Where's your sense of...
[27:24] Bob Dobbs: accomplishing something that will be recognized,
[27:27] Bob Dobbs: and then you get a gig at a university or something.
[27:30] Bob Dobbs: None of that's there anymore.
[27:32] Bob Dobbs: And you actually have the baby boomers and now the Generation X.
[27:36] Bob Dobbs: They're the old fogies.
[27:38] Bob Dobbs: They're the ancient regime.
[27:39] Bob Dobbs: They hold on to their jobs and don't let the new generations come in and pretend they're doing something.
[27:46] Bob Dobbs: Do you know what I mean?
[27:47] Cameron McEwen: Absolutely.
[27:48] Cameron McEwen: Absolutely.
[27:49] Cameron McEwen: That's the definition of the teacher's union right there.
[27:52] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[27:52] Bob Dobbs: yeah.
[27:53] Bob Dobbs: They're...
[27:54] Bob Dobbs: Remember the ancient regime,
[27:55] Bob Dobbs: right?
[27:56] Bob Dobbs: The feudal age aristocrats were trying to hold on to their power as mercantilism took over in the effects of the printing press.
[28:05] Bob Dobbs: And they ended up having 10-year-olds being generals in their armies.
[28:08] Bob Dobbs: It was all futile.
[28:10] Bob Dobbs: Well,
[28:11] Bob Dobbs: you've got that's one of the biggest hypocrisies of the baby boomers.
[28:16] Bob Dobbs: whatever fantasies they have about what they did as a generation,
[28:20] Bob Dobbs: they are actually,
[28:21] Bob Dobbs: quote,
[28:21] Bob Dobbs: fascists of imposing.
[28:24] Bob Dobbs: Their stupid professional bias or the fact society wants somebody to babysit all these kids or provide stupid clerk jobs for people,
[28:35] Bob Dobbs: this is over the last 30 years.
[28:37] Bob Dobbs: And so the baby boomers were the guys that held the fort of obsolescence.
[28:43] Bob Dobbs: And they're the biggest.
[28:45] Bob Dobbs: And so then they come along 10,
[28:46] Bob Dobbs: 15 years ago complaining about the kids and how stupid they are and all that.
[28:51] Bob Dobbs: They don't recognize their own hypocrisy.
[28:54] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[28:54] Cameron McEwen: interesting.
[28:56] Cameron McEwen: That's what might be called a socio-political dimension to the rearview mirror.
[29:04] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[29:05] Bob Dobbs: it's escape almost.
[29:06] Bob Dobbs: They're shepherds.
[29:08] Bob Dobbs: We're all becoming shepherds,
[29:10] Bob Dobbs: just tending the sheep,
[29:11] Bob Dobbs: the media.
[29:12] Bob Dobbs: And the media are people.
[29:14] Bob Dobbs: So more and more,
[29:17] Bob Dobbs: we just sit on some part of the bureaucratic scape and stay there as long as possible.
[29:25] Cameron McEwen: Yes.
[29:27] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[29:27] Cameron McEwen: the image I'm getting is like the way photographs used to be developed in a medium,
[29:38] Cameron McEwen: in a dark room.
[29:39] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[29:40] Cameron McEwen: And the film would be floating in a liquid.
[29:47] Cameron McEwen: And the scapes are like film that is being...
[29:56] Cameron McEwen: simultaneously preserved and developed in a liquid.
[30:02] Bob Dobbs: In liquid capital.
[30:03] Bob Dobbs: Liquid capital is what the currency is,
[30:08] Bob Dobbs: right?
[30:09] Bob Dobbs: We don't know if it's cash,
[30:11] Bob Dobbs: debt,
[30:11] Bob Dobbs: or what,
[30:12] Bob Dobbs: but it's,
[30:12] Bob Dobbs: quote,
[30:13] Bob Dobbs: liquid.
[30:13] Bob Dobbs: That's their term for it,
[30:14] Bob Dobbs: right?
[30:15] Bob Dobbs: So the liquid is this electrified ether liquid that we're floating in.
[30:20] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[30:21] Cameron McEwen: that's good.
[30:22] Cameron McEwen: That's good.
[30:23] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[30:24] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[30:24] Cameron McEwen: you're on top of your game today,
[30:26] Cameron McEwen: Bob.
[30:26] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[30:26] Bob Dobbs: what's the date here?
[30:28] Bob Dobbs: July 13th.
[30:30] Bob Dobbs: What am I channeling here?
[30:34] Bob Dobbs: I'm on top of my game.
[30:36] Bob Dobbs: This is not game,
[30:37] Bob Dobbs: this is science,
[30:38] Bob Dobbs: man.
[30:41] Bob Dobbs: Anyways,
[30:41] Bob Dobbs: yeah,
[30:41] Bob Dobbs: this is good.
[30:42] Bob Dobbs: Well,
[30:43] Bob Dobbs: my stuff is,
[30:44] Bob Dobbs: reading this paragraph blew me up.
[30:47] Bob Dobbs: And your enthusiasm for the word scapes.
[30:51] Bob Dobbs: Doesn't take me long to get going if somebody likes what I'm doing.
[30:56] Cameron McEwen: Well,
[30:59] Cameron McEwen: for me,
[31:02] Cameron McEwen: I'm understanding the pamphlet at this point in a way that demands that
[31:10] Cameron McEwen: I need to go back and reread again.
[31:12] Cameron McEwen: I've already done this a couple times.
[31:14] Bob Dobbs: Wow,
[31:14] Bob Dobbs: that's great.
[31:15] Cameron McEwen: This is an interesting insight for me.
[31:18] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[31:18] Bob Dobbs: so we're,
[31:19] Bob Dobbs: we are in the Android meme Phase 2 chapter,
[31:23] Bob Dobbs: is that what we're in?
[31:24] Bob Dobbs: Yes,
[31:24] Bob Dobbs: sir.
[31:24] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[31:25] Bob Dobbs: Android meme Phase 2.
[31:27] Bob Dobbs: I'm just going to go up and look at the beginning of my inventory.
[31:33] Bob Dobbs: So,
[31:36] Bob Dobbs: yeah,
[31:36] Bob Dobbs: we're in,
[31:37] Bob Dobbs: just to review them,
[31:38] Bob Dobbs: Global Village,
[31:39] Bob Dobbs: Global Theater,
[31:40] Bob Dobbs: Global Membrane,
[31:41] Bob Dobbs: or Android meme Phase 1.
[31:44] Bob Dobbs: Android meme Phase 2 goes up to 159,
[31:46] Bob Dobbs: so we're coming up to...
[31:48] Bob Dobbs: The fifth phase,
[31:50] Bob Dobbs: which is difficult to talk about,
[31:51] Bob Dobbs: the Anthropomorphic Physical,
[31:52] Bob Dobbs: the AP.
[31:54] Bob Dobbs: That's going to be interesting,
[31:55] Bob Dobbs: what I can communicate to that and whether I can inspire you with whatever I'm trying to get at there.
[32:01] Bob Dobbs: And then the last chapter is the tech body and President Donald Trump.
[32:05] Bob Dobbs: You know,
[32:06] Bob Dobbs: the whole presidency,
[32:07] Bob Dobbs: which McLuhan's definition was birth perfect,
[32:09] Bob Dobbs: the automated presidential surrogate is a superlative nobody.
[32:13] Bob Dobbs: But it's like Donald Trump.
[32:16] Bob Dobbs: by being a clown president or a non-president or an anti-environment to the White House,
[32:21] Bob Dobbs: he is the memory.
[32:23] Bob Dobbs: He's a walking museum now.
[32:25] Bob Dobbs: People go to see him,
[32:26] Bob Dobbs: right?
[32:26] Bob Dobbs: He's the only guy to get a big audience,
[32:29] Bob Dobbs: and he's not allowed even to be in government.
[32:33] Cameron McEwen: Hasn't Biden kind of transformed into a kind of mirror image of all that?
[32:42] Cameron McEwen: Isn't he,
[32:44] Cameron McEwen: clown president who's
[32:47] Bob Dobbs: Well,
[32:47] Bob Dobbs: I wrap that up real good.
[32:49] Bob Dobbs: You know,
[32:50] Bob Dobbs: Trump,
[32:51] Bob Dobbs: because it was a world beyond speech,
[32:53] Bob Dobbs: beyond words,
[32:54] Bob Dobbs: he knew he didn't need words to talk.
[32:56] Bob Dobbs: That began with
[32:57] Bob Dobbs: George Bush
[32:59] Bob Dobbs: Jr. winking at the audience during his debates with Gore.
[33:03] Bob Dobbs: You know,
[33:04] Bob Dobbs: while Gore was going on with his verbality and he created the Internet and all this nonsense,
[33:08] Bob Dobbs: and all George Bush would do is wink at the audience.
[33:11] Bob Dobbs: That really was commented on.
[33:14] Bob Dobbs: It was a big deal.
[33:15] Bob Dobbs: So he was doing,
[33:16] Bob Dobbs: he did it first,
[33:17] Bob Dobbs: and of course he was a guy who didn't read the newspaper.
[33:20] Bob Dobbs: He was a media columnist.
[33:21] Cameron McEwen: Couldn't read the newspaper.
[33:22] Bob Dobbs: What?
[33:24] Cameron McEwen: Couldn't read it.
[33:24] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[33:25] Bob Dobbs: he couldn't read it,
[33:25] Bob Dobbs: and it turned out he was charismatic not to be able to read it.
[33:30] Bob Dobbs: So then
[33:31] Bob Dobbs: Obama was a reaction to that.
[33:33] Bob Dobbs: They're trying to retrieve something.
[33:35] Bob Dobbs: But they put in the slave.
[33:37] Bob Dobbs: They take their press class,
[33:39] Bob Dobbs: the blacks,
[33:40] Bob Dobbs: and made him a president.
[33:41] Bob Dobbs: That got attention for a while.
[33:43] Bob Dobbs: But then...
[33:44] Bob Dobbs: He got lost,
[33:45] Bob Dobbs: his image got lost in all the responsibilities of what the White House is,
[33:48] Bob Dobbs: the actual control of the whole world,
[33:50] Bob Dobbs: so it always looks like it.
[33:52] Bob Dobbs: a dictatorship or a bad scene,
[33:55] Bob Dobbs: right?
[33:56] Bob Dobbs: And has to have all these wars.
[33:58] Bob Dobbs: So then
[33:59] Bob Dobbs: Trump comes in and he doesn't bother finishing his sentences.
[34:03] Bob Dobbs: Okay.
[34:04] Bob Dobbs: So Biden actually outdoes Trump.
[34:07] Bob Dobbs: And I've said to you before,
[34:08] Bob Dobbs: what does he do?
[34:10] Bob Dobbs: He speaks in syllables.
[34:11] Bob Dobbs: He can hardly finish his syllables.
[34:15] Bob Dobbs: Did you see what he said the other day?
[34:17] Bob Dobbs: He said,
[34:17] Bob Dobbs: God bless the Queen.
[34:20] Bob Dobbs: Did you hear about that?
[34:22] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[34:22] Cameron McEwen: high five.
[34:24] Bob Dobbs: See,
[34:24] Bob Dobbs: he knows that Queen Elizabeth is still alive.
[34:27] Bob Dobbs: That's a secret.
[34:28] Bob Dobbs: People don't know that.
[34:29] Bob Dobbs: So they talked to iON about that.
[34:32] Bob Dobbs: But anyways,
[34:33] Bob Dobbs: it's incredible,
[34:33] Bob Dobbs: right?
[34:34] Bob Dobbs: What he says,
[34:35] Bob Dobbs: what he does.
[34:36] Bob Dobbs: I saw it in other footage.
[34:38] Bob Dobbs: And this is all just surface.
[34:39] Bob Dobbs: You just go here,
[34:40] Bob Dobbs: there,
[34:40] Bob Dobbs: go look for something,
[34:42] Bob Dobbs: and you'll see somebody will show you a little image.
[34:45] Bob Dobbs: And you'll see there's
[34:47] Bob Dobbs: Biden with the...
[34:49] Bob Dobbs: President of Turkey,
[34:50] Bob Dobbs: and he has a piece of paper.
[34:52] Bob Dobbs: He's looking at it to see who he's sitting with.
[34:58] Bob Dobbs: And the President of Turkey is staring at him like,
[35:00] Bob Dobbs: what is this guy?
[35:01] Bob Dobbs: This is not even a human being I'm looking at.
[35:04] Bob Dobbs: Can you imagine all these people go to the White House,
[35:07] Bob Dobbs: and they think it's some solid place,
[35:09] Bob Dobbs: if they're from a third world place or a bit behind the speed we live at,
[35:14] Bob Dobbs: and they go in there,
[35:14] Bob Dobbs: this sacred place,
[35:15] Bob Dobbs: and they got this fucking...
[35:17] Bob Dobbs: nothing there.
[35:18] Bob Dobbs: This blob.
[35:20] Bob Dobbs: Everybody goes through a crisis,
[35:21] Bob Dobbs: I bet,
[35:22] Bob Dobbs: when they go to that White House.
[35:26] Bob Dobbs: So Biden is completing the Trump image.
[35:31] Cameron McEwen: Yes,
[35:32] Cameron McEwen: absolutely.
[35:33] Bob Dobbs: So,
[35:33] Bob Dobbs: you know,
[35:34] Bob Dobbs: there's not to speak.
[35:35] Bob Dobbs: And then you actually have journalists saying,
[35:37] Bob Dobbs: well,
[35:37] Bob Dobbs: he brought back normalcy.
[35:39] Bob Dobbs: He brought back decency.
[35:41] Bob Dobbs: He's a nice guy.
[35:43] Bob Dobbs: The way they describe him is unbelievable.
[35:46] Bob Dobbs: They ignore what the tech body aspect of him.
[35:49] Bob Dobbs: He's part of the tech body,
[35:50] Bob Dobbs: too.
[35:51] Bob Dobbs: So anyways,
[35:54] Bob Dobbs: it's all Anthropomorphic Physical,
[35:56] Bob Dobbs: projecting that there are still humans here,
[35:59] Bob Dobbs: or chemical bodies,
[35:59] Bob Dobbs: shall we say.
[36:00] Bob Dobbs: It's a better way to say it.
[36:01] Bob Dobbs: Because the human we are is engaging all the scapes.
[36:07] Bob Dobbs: So what do you call that?
[36:08] Bob Dobbs: What is that?
[36:08] Bob Dobbs: And that's a multi-bodied situation.
[36:12] Bob Dobbs: So this is a...
[36:15] Bob Dobbs: change in the pamphlet,
[36:18] Bob Dobbs: I'm moving into the relevance of the five bodies,
[36:22] Bob Dobbs: right?
[36:22] Bob Dobbs: Which goes past McLuhan's sensory framework.
[36:29] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[36:29] Cameron McEwen: but isn't the sensory framework in McLuhan misunderstood as being literal?
[36:37] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[36:37] Cameron McEwen: Right?
[36:38] Cameron McEwen: The senses are not the five senses because,
[36:41] Cameron McEwen: for example,
[36:42] Cameron McEwen: he'll say,
[36:42] Cameron McEwen: well,
[36:43] Cameron McEwen: TV is tactile.
[36:44] Cameron McEwen: or symphonic music is visual,
[36:48] Cameron McEwen: right?
[36:48] Cameron McEwen: So the senses aren't literal in McLuhan at all.
[36:52] Bob Dobbs: They're synesthesia,
[36:54] Bob Dobbs: at least.
[36:55] Bob Dobbs: They're mixed up.
[36:56] Bob Dobbs: They're not frozen categories.
[36:58] Bob Dobbs: He even used to say,
[36:59] Bob Dobbs: I believe there's only four senses.
[37:01] Bob Dobbs: He didn't even agree with the five sensory model.
[37:03] Cameron McEwen: mm-hmm.
[37:05] Bob Dobbs: So,
[37:06] Bob Dobbs: yeah.
[37:06] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[37:07] Cameron McEwen: taste and smell he tended to bring together.
[37:11] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[37:11] Bob Dobbs: and also tactility was not a sense.
[37:13] Bob Dobbs: So you had the eye,
[37:15] Bob Dobbs: ear,
[37:16] Bob Dobbs: smell,
[37:17] Bob Dobbs: and movement,
[37:19] Bob Dobbs: and smell and taste he put together.
[37:21] Bob Dobbs: You know what I mean?
[37:22] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.
[37:23] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[37:24] Bob Dobbs: And he left out tactility,
[37:25] Bob Dobbs: which was not a sense.
[37:27] Bob Dobbs: But the using bodies is where the senses evolved to,
[37:34] Bob Dobbs: I guess.
[37:34] Bob Dobbs: They each have their own landscape.
[37:39] Cameron McEwen: Yes.
[37:41] Cameron McEwen: Don't you have a problem here where...
[37:45] Cameron McEwen: you're not using the word body to mean,
[37:49] Cameron McEwen: you know,
[37:51] Cameron McEwen: physical bodies in space-time.
[37:55] Cameron McEwen: You're using body in a whole other sense,
[37:58] Cameron McEwen: and that other sense has to do with this whole other language,
[38:02] Cameron McEwen: and the whole other language is what is not understood,
[38:06] Cameron McEwen: even while it's being lived out.
[38:09] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[38:10] Bob Dobbs: and it's actually in people's...
[38:13] Bob Dobbs: music and their lyrics and their videos they express that awareness but they don't know they're doing that that what the way they make their creations video creations are very accurate in a post-Finnegans Wake world you know when you know that when you understand that but they don't know that and so when they get interviewed uh
[38:33] Bob Dobbs: they're embarrassed they don't have any they don't know how to talk about their work and so they so that would be why a lot of people
[38:41] Bob Dobbs: have gone into the woke religious talk about certain political correct values.
[38:48] Bob Dobbs: That's the only talking that seems to get by or make you look like you're up on something and you're intelligent.
[38:56] Bob Dobbs: You know what I mean?
[38:58] Bob Dobbs: So wokeness is speech,
[39:00] Bob Dobbs: and the Gutenberg arts turn into rigid religions,
[39:05] Bob Dobbs: iconic.
[39:06] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[39:08] Cameron McEwen: and it supplies a ground for them.
[39:10] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[39:11] Bob Dobbs: that's what it is.
[39:11] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[39:12] Bob Dobbs: it's a ground.
[39:14] Bob Dobbs: It's an ersatz environment,
[39:15] Bob Dobbs: ersatz ground.
[39:17] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.
[39:19] Bob Dobbs: So,
[39:19] Bob Dobbs: you know,
[39:20] Bob Dobbs: if you get people to listen to what we're saying,
[39:23] Bob Dobbs: there's a lot of work that we're implying that one needs to engage to see why you are inspired by what we're saying to you,
[39:33] Bob Dobbs: why it makes sense to you.
[39:38] Bob Dobbs: See,
[39:38] Bob Dobbs: if you listen to us,
[39:39] Bob Dobbs: we make sense.
[39:41] Cameron McEwen: That's right.
[39:41] Cameron McEwen: But the problem people have is that it's...
[39:48] Bob Dobbs: Oh,
[39:49] Bob Dobbs: you blipped out.
[40:00] Bob Dobbs: Hmm.
[40:07] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[40:08] Bob Dobbs: we gotta keep this recording.
[40:11] Bob Dobbs: Let's see.
[40:15] Bob Dobbs: Hello Yeah,
[40:16] Bob Dobbs: that's still going.
[40:21] Bob Dobbs: Okay,
[40:22] Bob Dobbs: I'm going to have to call Cameron.
[40:25] Bob Dobbs: Looks like you got knocked off.
[40:42] Bob Dobbs: Okay.
[41:25] Bob Dobbs: the recording so uh can you speak hello hello yeah i want to check uh yeah i think i'm going to check the other one just a second okay
[41:43] Bob Dobbs: say hello hello hello yeah okay so everything is going um so what were you saying you were saying something i was saying that um
[41:55] Cameron McEwen: Because the new language is not understood,
[42:00] Cameron McEwen: words like body and like sense are understood in the old language and are therefore misunderstood.
[42:13] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[42:14] Bob Dobbs: I used to say that television was adding a new organ or a lung.
[42:19] Bob Dobbs: And then...
[42:20] Bob Dobbs: Deleuze and Guattari started talking about bodies without organs.
[42:25] Bob Dobbs: Do you know about that?
[42:27] Cameron McEwen: No,
[42:27] Cameron McEwen: I've never read that.
[42:28] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[42:29] Bob Dobbs: so they had that slang.
[42:30] Bob Dobbs: And then
[42:32] Bob Dobbs: Kroker flipped it,
[42:33] Bob Dobbs: as he did with all the postmodern archetype guys.
[42:37] Bob Dobbs: He said it's organs without bodies.
[42:40] Bob Dobbs: And so that was better.
[42:41] Bob Dobbs: That was like the ear floating around.
[42:43] Bob Dobbs: He has lots of stuff on the floating ears,
[42:44] Bob Dobbs: the floating tongues,
[42:46] Bob Dobbs: the floating clitorises,
[42:47] Bob Dobbs: you know.
[42:48] Bob Dobbs: And it's more...
[42:49] Bob Dobbs: Parts of the body,
[42:50] Bob Dobbs: the splayed bodies,
[42:52] Bob Dobbs: the blown apart,
[42:53] Bob Dobbs: the chemical body image.
[42:54] Bob Dobbs: So yeah,
[42:55] Bob Dobbs: that's what they were trying to get at what was inadequate of even using the senses in the word bodies.
[43:03] Bob Dobbs: I was aware of that.
[43:05] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.
[43:06] Bob Dobbs: Well,
[43:06] Bob Dobbs: it's like,
[43:07] Bob Dobbs: not only am I,
[43:09] Bob Dobbs: if I write something,
[43:11] Bob Dobbs: it's surface pattern recognition.
[43:13] Bob Dobbs: I'm speaking surface pattern recognition here.
[43:17] Cameron McEwen: Yes.
[43:18] Bob Dobbs: I'm using the words,
[43:19] Bob Dobbs: you know.
[43:21] Cameron McEwen: You're like a parent that's trying to get the child to speak.
[43:27] Cameron McEwen: Right?
[43:28] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.
[43:29] Cameron McEwen: Say mommy,
[43:30] Cameron McEwen: say daddy,
[43:31] Bob Dobbs: right?
[43:34] Bob Dobbs: If they get anywhere near it,
[43:35] Bob Dobbs: I accept.
[43:36] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[43:36] Bob Dobbs: that's good.
[43:37] Bob Dobbs: Very good.
[43:40] Bob Dobbs: So,
[43:40] Bob Dobbs: yeah,
[43:42] Bob Dobbs: when I am,
[43:43] Bob Dobbs: quote,
[43:43] Bob Dobbs: teaching this stuff on my radio show,
[43:46] Bob Dobbs: and the people get involved and they start,
[43:48] Bob Dobbs: get inspired and they think they learned it they then tell me what they learned and it's usually way off but i usually say very good very good because you can't baby steps yeah this baby said you can't get them to get it right away just for them to attempt to say something that
[44:08] Bob Dobbs: they feel is inadequate but you support the effort that's the probing and we're all in that in that condition so i can't God damn it.
[44:18] Cameron McEwen: And you have a wonderful line at the bottom of 151 where you say,
[44:22] Cameron McEwen: that's our modern hospital.
[44:25] Bob Dobbs: That's our modern hospital.
[44:27] Cameron McEwen: So the modern hospital is literally everything.
[44:30] Bob Dobbs: Yes,
[44:31] Bob Dobbs: that's right.
[44:32] Bob Dobbs: And that's why the doctor throughout the 20th century became the high priest.
[44:36] Bob Dobbs: That became the new religion.
[44:38] Bob Dobbs: The secular religion was worshiping medicine and that this hospital environment was going to save you.
[44:44] Bob Dobbs: And it's become a ghetto.
[44:46] Bob Dobbs: It's ridiculous what it's doing because the hospital,
[44:51] Bob Dobbs: medicine is not done by doctors anymore.
[44:54] Bob Dobbs: It's done by our environment.
[44:55] Bob Dobbs: And McLuhan said that.
[44:56] Bob Dobbs: They said media are anesthetics.
[44:58] Bob Dobbs: They're medicinal.
[45:00] Bob Dobbs: They are therapy for people.
[45:02] Bob Dobbs: If you didn't have these media environments,
[45:04] Bob Dobbs: you wouldn't be able to handle the previous media environments or the newer ones.
[45:08] Bob Dobbs: See?
[45:08] Bob Dobbs: So media environments are drugs.
[45:15] Bob Dobbs: The drugs that we use for the chemical body have been replaced by the media environment.
[45:18] Bob Dobbs: So then if you have a car accident,
[45:23] Bob Dobbs: an accident,
[45:24] Bob Dobbs: you lose your identity dealing with all these new environments.
[45:28] Bob Dobbs: And the Global Theater Hospital and all the environments that are your medications for them,
[45:37] Bob Dobbs: if you collapse in that,
[45:40] Bob Dobbs: then you go to the old-fashioned hospital and you get ripped apart.
[45:44] Bob Dobbs: You go to the chemical body hospital,
[45:47] Bob Dobbs: and that's dangerous in there.
[45:51] Bob Dobbs: Do you know what I mean?
[45:53] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[45:53] Cameron McEwen: absolutely.
[45:54] Cameron McEwen: The relationship between the hospitals you're talking about is the same as the relationship between the languages that we're talking about.
[46:05] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[46:06] Bob Dobbs: I'm sorry I've got to use old-fashioned hospitals to treat your problem.
[46:09] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[46:10] Cameron McEwen: yeah,
[46:11] Cameron McEwen: yeah.
[46:12] Bob Dobbs: Now,
[46:12] Bob Dobbs: there's also...
[46:13] Bob Dobbs: incredible services in the hospital environment.
[46:18] Bob Dobbs: We all know that.
[46:19] Bob Dobbs: Because you can't say something's bad or good.
[46:22] Bob Dobbs: There's service and disservices.
[46:23] Bob Dobbs: But overall,
[46:25] Bob Dobbs: because we don't have a poet of the present,
[46:28] Bob Dobbs: a means to frame the minds for people,
[46:31] Bob Dobbs: or whatever their afterimage of their mind is,
[46:35] Bob Dobbs: then all the environments tend to be disservices.
[46:40] Bob Dobbs: The services are lost.
[46:42] Bob Dobbs: People don't know what the service is anymore,
[46:44] Bob Dobbs: and that's another part of their alienation and frustration.
[46:47] Bob Dobbs: They aren't getting the satisfactions where they think they should.
[46:50] Bob Dobbs: Their chemical body is not getting those satisfactions.
[46:53] Bob Dobbs: They're getting other kinds of satisfactions they're not even aware of,
[46:56] Bob Dobbs: which we would call addictions.
[46:59] Bob Dobbs: They have to keep texting.
[47:03] Bob Dobbs: They have to keep up.
[47:04] Bob Dobbs: See,
[47:05] Bob Dobbs: can you see the whole mandate of participation that came in with radio,
[47:09] Bob Dobbs: first the telegraph?
[47:11] Bob Dobbs: And,
[47:11] Bob Dobbs: you know,
[47:12] Bob Dobbs: that would create the Florence Nightingale thing.
[47:14] Bob Dobbs: And then you had the radio environment,
[47:16] Bob Dobbs: the TV involvement,
[47:17] Bob Dobbs: and hyper-participation mystique.
[47:20] Bob Dobbs: And it all led to people now walking along,
[47:24] Bob Dobbs: looking at the instant of pattern recognition coming at them on their cell phones,
[47:30] Bob Dobbs: on their smartphones.
[47:31] Bob Dobbs: And they're engaging it,
[47:32] Bob Dobbs: and they're totally preoccupied.
[47:33] Bob Dobbs: It's the ultimate expression of,
[47:36] Bob Dobbs: McLuhan said,
[47:36] Bob Dobbs: the participatory effect of electric media,
[47:38] Bob Dobbs: the involving nature of it.
[47:41] Bob Dobbs: I don't see,
[47:42] Bob Dobbs: I don't think he saw it come to this
[47:46] Bob Dobbs: 24-7 of endless monitoring and keeping up with what you think you have to keep up with.
[47:53] Cameron McEwen: Well,
[47:55] Cameron McEwen: I'm not so sure.
[47:55] Cameron McEwen: I think he did see that.
[47:58] Cameron McEwen: And he tried to surf that environment.
[48:03] Bob Dobbs: And he did.
[48:05] Bob Dobbs: But to see,
[48:06] Bob Dobbs: to have people walking around day in and day out.
[48:10] Bob Dobbs: You know why smoking has diminished?
[48:13] Bob Dobbs: I don't see anybody smoking anymore,
[48:14] Bob Dobbs: hardly here.
[48:16] Bob Dobbs: And that's because before,
[48:19] Bob Dobbs: as body language took over due to movies,
[48:22] Bob Dobbs: and people started to communicate post-verbally with their body language,
[48:26] Bob Dobbs: so they would take postures with their smoking,
[48:30] Bob Dobbs: gestures and postures in their smoking habits,
[48:33] Bob Dobbs: there was also an insecurity in people.
[48:36] Bob Dobbs: They need to be holding on to something.
[48:37] Bob Dobbs: As they were floating in the discarnate state.
[48:39] Bob Dobbs: So they held on to the cigarette.
[48:41] Cameron McEwen: Sure.
[48:42] Bob Dobbs: Once you've got the cell phone and everybody's walking around holding that,
[48:45] Bob Dobbs: you don't need a cigarette.
[48:47] Bob Dobbs: So the cell phone replaced the cigarette for that kind of security.
[48:51] Cameron McEwen: Absolutely.
[48:51] Cameron McEwen: Absolutely.
[48:52] Cameron McEwen: And it's also replaced gum.
[48:55] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[48:55] Bob Dobbs: That's good.
[48:56] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[48:56] Bob Dobbs: Because they can talk.
[48:59] Bob Dobbs: They can chew the cud right there while they're walking along.
[49:02] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[49:05] Bob Dobbs: So the...
[49:08] Bob Dobbs: Okay,
[49:09] Bob Dobbs: so where are we at here?
[49:12] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[49:12] Bob Dobbs: that's our modern hospital.
[49:13] Bob Dobbs: Is that all I say?
[49:15] Bob Dobbs: No more blue.
[49:16] Bob Dobbs: Yep,
[49:17] Bob Dobbs: that's all I say.
[49:17] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[49:17] Cameron McEwen: well,
[49:18] Cameron McEwen: that's such a great line.
[49:19] Cameron McEwen: You didn't want to spoil it by going on.
[49:21] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[49:21] Bob Dobbs: yeah.
[49:23] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[49:24] Bob Dobbs: and I'm pointing out that our hospital is not the building known as hospital.
[49:29] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[49:29] Cameron McEwen: of course.
[49:30] Bob Dobbs: So everybody is engaged in helping everybody else by giving them attention,
[49:38] Bob Dobbs: just by answering their email.
[49:40] Bob Dobbs: So everybody becomes a therapist for everybody else.
[49:43] Bob Dobbs: And McLuhan said that started with Freud and the psychiatric coach.
[49:47] Bob Dobbs: People needed an audience for their new post-chemical body experiences.
[49:53] Bob Dobbs: So they got the audience of the psychiatrist.
[49:56] Bob Dobbs: Now everybody's an audience for everybody else.
[49:59] Bob Dobbs: And that can make people think,
[50:01] Bob Dobbs: well,
[50:02] Bob Dobbs: everybody's contributing.
[50:03] Bob Dobbs: This would be unconscious.
[50:05] Bob Dobbs: Therefore,
[50:05] Bob Dobbs: why not have a guaranteed income?
[50:07] Bob Dobbs: Why not be,
[50:08] Bob Dobbs: quote,
[50:08] Bob Dobbs: be communists?
[50:09] Bob Dobbs: We're all participating in this global crisis where we all need to help each other and talk to everybody and comfort everybody in all different means of media communication.
[50:18] Bob Dobbs: That's where you've got,
[50:19] Bob Dobbs: we've turned into aboriginal tribe here,
[50:23] Bob Dobbs: where everybody shares the same whatever they get,
[50:26] Bob Dobbs: right?
[50:26] Bob Dobbs: And they're hunting.
[50:27] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[50:28] Cameron McEwen: yeah.
[50:28] Cameron McEwen: But we've turned into an aboriginal tribe in a nostalgic sense.
[50:38] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[50:38] Bob Dobbs: we don't live that.
[50:40] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[50:40] Cameron McEwen: exactly.
[50:41] Cameron McEwen: We don't know how to do it.
[50:43] Cameron McEwen: We know how to kind of wish for it in a stumbling around kind of way.
[50:48] Bob Dobbs: And so the kids,
[50:49] Bob Dobbs: the millennials and younger,
[50:51] Bob Dobbs: that's their wish to the degree this media myth that they're...
[50:56] Bob Dobbs: They're all kind of just hoping to be looked after with some kind of income or being on welfare and all that.
[51:05] Bob Dobbs: I remember the old story 10 years ago that Japanese students wouldn't leave their bedrooms.
[51:10] Bob Dobbs: The Japanese people,
[51:11] Bob Dobbs: the kids in their homes,
[51:12] Bob Dobbs: they wouldn't leave.
[51:13] Bob Dobbs: Remember that story?
[51:15] Cameron McEwen: Sure.
[51:16] Cameron McEwen: Well,
[51:17] Cameron McEwen: that's being lived out by the whole Japanese nation,
[51:19] Cameron McEwen: right?
[51:20] Cameron McEwen: They're not creating babies.
[51:22] Cameron McEwen: They're not finding a way to replicate their society.
[51:26] Bob Dobbs: Right,
[51:26] Bob Dobbs: so everybody wanting to be taken care of is this nostalgia for the aboriginal.
[51:34] Bob Dobbs: Because,
[51:35] Bob Dobbs: you know,
[51:35] Bob Dobbs: McLuhan's important point that television was way more dangerous than the bomb,
[51:41] Bob Dobbs: or even famines,
[51:43] Bob Dobbs: because they come and go,
[51:44] Bob Dobbs: and if they kill you,
[51:45] Bob Dobbs: you're gone.
[51:46] Bob Dobbs: But for those that are still here,
[51:48] Bob Dobbs: TV,
[51:49] Bob Dobbs: he said,
[51:49] Bob Dobbs: is here for another thousand years.
[51:51] Bob Dobbs: This psychic pressure of keeping up in the information environment is the real plague.
[51:56] Bob Dobbs: The real cause of all the ailments that leads to ill health due to eating and drinking too much or relying on junk food or coffee or something,
[52:09] Bob Dobbs: the incredible ill health of the population is due to the psychic pressure of the digital Android meme.
[52:18] Bob Dobbs: It's a bigger plague than physical plagues.
[52:23] Bob Dobbs: So what's interesting...
[52:24] Bob Dobbs: There's also a huge service,
[52:26] Bob Dobbs: and that's why I put my part of the chart under ecstasy.
[52:31] Bob Dobbs: And my part of the chart swallows the other parts.
[52:33] Bob Dobbs: It's from 1960 to 1990.
[52:36] Bob Dobbs: And the ecstasy is that we are living.
[52:38] Bob Dobbs: We have our cell phone,
[52:40] Bob Dobbs: and we have stuff to,
[52:41] Bob Dobbs: quote,
[52:42] Bob Dobbs: distract us or to engage us while we go through the misery of the chemical body failures.
[52:50] Bob Dobbs: There's the hospital.
[52:52] Bob Dobbs: Constant tending of everything with media that you can engage.
[52:59] Bob Dobbs: So how do you describe this?
[53:05] Bob Dobbs: It's pretty interesting.
[53:06] Bob Dobbs: You could put up five science fiction guys.
[53:09] Bob Dobbs: They all have different scenarios.
[53:10] Bob Dobbs: Just put their movies up there.
[53:12] Bob Dobbs: Okay,
[53:12] Bob Dobbs: this is an approximation.
[53:14] Bob Dobbs: This is like Finnegans Wake ends in a triptych.
[53:17] Bob Dobbs: A stained glass window with three scenes.
[53:19] Bob Dobbs: You put up three scenes.
[53:20] Bob Dobbs: That's how you're living.
[53:21] Bob Dobbs: That's your quadrophrenic experience.
[53:26] Bob Dobbs: So then,
[53:27] Bob Dobbs: you know,
[53:27] Bob Dobbs: there is a plague,
[53:29] Bob Dobbs: a chemical body plague of people doing fentanyl and all these drugs in middle America,
[53:33] Bob Dobbs: all over the place,
[53:34] Bob Dobbs: in the small towns.
[53:35] Bob Dobbs: You've heard of that,
[53:36] Bob Dobbs: right?
[53:37] Cameron McEwen: Yes,
[53:37] Cameron McEwen: sir.
[53:39] Bob Dobbs: There is a modern citizen,
[53:43] Bob Dobbs: modern chemical body that has no training at all and no even.
[53:49] Bob Dobbs: Fake training,
[53:50] Bob Dobbs: like,
[53:50] Bob Dobbs: oh,
[53:50] Bob Dobbs: I got a PhD,
[53:51] Bob Dobbs: you know,
[53:52] Bob Dobbs: I know something.
[53:53] Bob Dobbs: So the masses are out there,
[53:56] Bob Dobbs: totally wiped out,
[53:57] Bob Dobbs: just lying there in their kitchen or in their bedroom,
[53:59] Bob Dobbs: stoned and addicted.
[54:02] Bob Dobbs: The devastation to people.
[54:04] Bob Dobbs: Like,
[54:04] Bob Dobbs: remember the image of China
[54:07] Bob Dobbs: 200 years ago when the opium wars happened and the British people were addicted.
[54:11] Bob Dobbs: And you have images of the Chinese people just laid out in their opium dens.
[54:15] Bob Dobbs: That's what we got here.
[54:16] Bob Dobbs: We got global dens all over the place.
[54:19] Cameron McEwen: Correct.
[54:21] Bob Dobbs: So the apocalypse,
[54:22] Bob Dobbs: the
[54:23] Bob Dobbs: Armageddon apocalyptic imagery from the Bible is puny compared to what's actually going on.
[54:29] Bob Dobbs: And that makes you understand why Joyce had to be so extreme.
[54:33] Bob Dobbs: in presenting Finnegans Wake,
[54:34] Bob Dobbs: because he said,
[54:34] Bob Dobbs: that's where we're close to already,
[54:36] Bob Dobbs: and we're going to.
[54:37] Bob Dobbs: We're going to work.
[54:41] Bob Dobbs: Am I still on a roll?
[54:42] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[54:43] Cameron McEwen: I think so.
[54:44] Cameron McEwen: Can you say something about the triptych at the end of
[54:48] Cameron McEwen: Finnegans Wake?
[54:49] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[54:49] Bob Dobbs: what is that?
[54:50] Bob Dobbs: It's,
[54:55] Bob Dobbs: there's the scene of St.
[54:57] Bob Dobbs: Patrick arguing with the old druid.
[55:01] Bob Dobbs: There's the
[55:03] Bob Dobbs: Scene of the Porter family,
[55:07] Bob Dobbs: the couple,
[55:08] Bob Dobbs: after their kid has a nightmare and they deal with that,
[55:11] Bob Dobbs: they go and they attempt to copulate,
[55:13] Bob Dobbs: and it's flashed onto their bedroom screen or something.
[55:18] Bob Dobbs: So the people walking by in the morning as the sun's coming up,
[55:21] Bob Dobbs: they can see them screwing.
[55:23] Bob Dobbs: Okay,
[55:23] Bob Dobbs: that's another image.
[55:25] Bob Dobbs: And I actually can't remember the third one.
[55:31] Bob Dobbs: Let's see.
[55:35] Bob Dobbs: Maybe it's
[55:37] Bob Dobbs: ALP.
[55:39] Cameron McEwen: I was just going to say,
[55:40] Cameron McEwen: yeah,
[55:41] Cameron McEwen: it's the river.
[55:43] Bob Dobbs: Or it's ALP looking at her dead husband.
[55:48] Bob Dobbs: And she's got the newspaper,
[55:50] Bob Dobbs: the letter that she writes to the media to defend her husband's scandal.
[55:55] Bob Dobbs: But actually,
[55:56] Bob Dobbs: you know,
[55:56] Bob Dobbs: it's funny.
[55:57] Bob Dobbs: I've kept that in my mind about the triptych,
[55:59] Bob Dobbs: but I haven't thought about the three images in a long time.
[56:03] Bob Dobbs: Actually,
[56:03] Bob Dobbs: I'm not sure.
[56:04] Bob Dobbs: I know one is a debate.
[56:08] Bob Dobbs: Not sure.
[56:09] Bob Dobbs: Let me just Google that,
[56:10] Bob Dobbs: see if it comes up.
[56:12] Bob Dobbs: The triptych in Finnegans Wake at the end.
[56:16] Bob Dobbs: Now,
[56:16] Bob Dobbs: this should come up,
[56:17] Bob Dobbs: right?
[56:18] Bob Dobbs: Everything's on here.
[56:20] Bob Dobbs: Finnegans Wake,
[56:26] Bob Dobbs: three scenes.
[56:35] Bob Dobbs: Chapter 3,
[56:36] Bob Dobbs: Section 3.
[56:39] Bob Dobbs: Oh yeah,
[56:40] Bob Dobbs: Kevin.
[56:41] Bob Dobbs: Kevin's the Irish saint on Little Island.
[56:45] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[56:45] Cameron McEwen: yeah.
[56:46] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[56:46] Bob Dobbs: so it's Kevin,
[56:50] Bob Dobbs: the debate,
[56:52] Bob Dobbs: and maybe Shem's doing something.
[56:59] Bob Dobbs: But I can't see...
[57:02] Bob Dobbs: No,
[57:03] Bob Dobbs: no trip...
[57:04] Bob Dobbs: images coming up
[57:08] Bob Dobbs: Finnegans Wake so that would be chapter 3 section 3 we want
[57:23] Bob Dobbs: Yawn let me see you want book 4 right no book 4 is book 1
[57:34] Bob Dobbs: It's going back into,
[57:37] Bob Dobbs: it's just basically,
[57:38] Bob Dobbs: oh no,
[57:38] Bob Dobbs: you're right,
[57:39] Bob Dobbs: the,
[57:39] Bob Dobbs: no,
[57:39] Bob Dobbs: wait a minute.
[57:40] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[57:41] Bob Dobbs: Berkeley,
[57:43] Bob Dobbs: the debate is page 620,
[57:46] Bob Dobbs: so that is in the fourth book.
[57:49] Bob Dobbs: Okay,
[57:50] Bob Dobbs: I'll put in the fourth book.
[57:56] Bob Dobbs: Book four,
[57:56] Bob Dobbs: Finnegans Wake.
[58:06] Cameron McEwen: Because I like this idea of different stained glass panels kind of illuminating each other.
[58:16] Bob Dobbs: Okay,
[58:17] Bob Dobbs: so
[58:18] Bob Dobbs: I'll put in four scenes,
[58:21] Bob Dobbs: see if that works.
[58:22] Bob Dobbs: Three scenes.
[58:34] Bob Dobbs: See?
[58:40] Bob Dobbs: It's the porters.
[58:41] Bob Dobbs: Are the porters in the fourth book?
[58:47] Bob Dobbs: I've got to go look.
[58:49] Bob Dobbs: I've got to get my 50s wake.
[59:09] Bob Dobbs: Okay,
[59:10] Bob Dobbs: so in this one,
[59:12] Bob Dobbs: they,
[59:13] Bob Dobbs: uh,
[59:14] Bob Dobbs: in this one,
[59:15] Bob Dobbs: in this version of Finnegans Wake,
[59:18] Bob Dobbs: they,
[59:19] Bob Dobbs: uh,
[59:19] Bob Dobbs: um,
[59:23] Bob Dobbs: the Porters,
[59:24] Bob Dobbs: yeah,
[59:25] Bob Dobbs: this is where the Port,
[59:26] Bob Dobbs: uh,
[59:26] Bob Dobbs: I gotta check.
[59:30] Bob Dobbs: No,
[59:30] Bob Dobbs: no,
[59:30] Bob Dobbs: no,
[59:31] Bob Dobbs: Porters is book three.
[59:36] Cameron McEwen: Well,
[59:37] Cameron McEwen: Porter is always there as...
[59:40] Cameron McEwen: spirit,
[59:40] Cameron McEwen: right?
[59:42] Bob Dobbs: And what do you mean?
[59:43] Bob Dobbs: The door?
[59:46] Cameron McEwen: No,
[59:46] Cameron McEwen: so
[59:48] Cameron McEwen: Porter is the spirit that animates the whole.
[59:55] Cameron McEwen: So it's not just the family or not just the bar,
[1:00:05] Cameron McEwen: pub.
[1:00:06] Cameron McEwen: It's also the evanescence of the whole book.
[1:00:11] Cameron McEwen: uh what is uh why porter what's the meaning of porter there well i mean uh porter is another name for guinness right for what guinness oh okay drink yeah whiskey okay yeah
[1:00:26] Bob Dobbs: the spirit of drink yeah so book three chapter four starts at page 555 goes up to
[1:00:34] Bob Dobbs: 589 or so it is not book four it's book three you
[1:00:40] Bob Dobbs: The fourth chapter is the porters.
[1:00:44] Bob Dobbs: That goes up to 590.
[1:00:46] Bob Dobbs: So then,
[1:00:48] Bob Dobbs: Berkeley and them,
[1:00:49] Bob Dobbs: they're page
[1:00:53] Bob Dobbs: 620 about.
[1:00:55] Bob Dobbs: I'm pretty sure Kevin is one of the images.
[1:01:01] Bob Dobbs: So let's see,
[1:01:03] Bob Dobbs: where is this?
[1:01:05] Bob Dobbs: 610?
[1:01:07] Bob Dobbs: I want to show you...
[1:01:09] Bob Dobbs: how he ends this.
[1:01:11] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[1:01:11] Bob Dobbs: so it's 611 and
[1:01:14] Bob Dobbs: 612. It starts off the top of 611,
[1:01:19] Bob Dobbs: line 3.
[1:01:21] Bob Dobbs: And here are the details.
[1:01:23] Bob Dobbs: I'll just read this.
[1:01:24] Bob Dobbs: So it's got
[1:01:26] Bob Dobbs: Muta and Juva replaying
[1:01:29] Bob Dobbs: Mutt and Jeff from page 16.
[1:01:32] Bob Dobbs: Let's see if I got that right.
[1:01:33] Bob Dobbs: Let's do a little Finnegans Wake here.
[1:01:35] Bob Dobbs: Guess what?
[1:01:38] Bob Dobbs: Mutt and Jute.
[1:01:39] Bob Dobbs: So that's caveman,
[1:01:42] Bob Dobbs: original man,
[1:01:42] Bob Dobbs: or the original interaction between two humans,
[1:01:46] Bob Dobbs: the beginning of communication.
[1:01:48] Bob Dobbs: That's page 16 to 20,
[1:01:50] Bob Dobbs: or to 18.
[1:01:52] Bob Dobbs: And then you have a replay of that in book four of
[1:01:56] Bob Dobbs: Muta and Juva,
[1:01:59] Bob Dobbs: rather than
[1:02:00] Bob Dobbs: Mutt and Jute.
[1:02:03] Bob Dobbs: Okay.
[1:02:04] Cameron McEwen: Yep.
[1:02:06] Bob Dobbs: So.
[1:02:06] Bob Dobbs: They're talking 609,
[1:02:09] Bob Dobbs: and then it goes into Rhythm and Color at Park Mooting,
[1:02:16] Bob Dobbs: Paradise Lost in the Grand Natural,
[1:02:19] Bob Dobbs: Velly Vision Victor,
[1:02:21] Bob Dobbs: television as Victor,
[1:02:23] Bob Dobbs: Dub's New Stage Old Time Turf Tussle,
[1:02:26] Bob Dobbs: that's the endless news 24-7,
[1:02:30] Bob Dobbs: Recalling Winnie Willie Widger,
[1:02:33] Bob Dobbs: Two Draws,
[1:02:34] Bob Dobbs: so that implies...
[1:02:36] Bob Dobbs: Two ties,
[1:02:37] Bob Dobbs: right?
[1:02:37] Bob Dobbs: Cancelations.
[1:02:39] Bob Dobbs: Heliotrope,
[1:02:39] Bob Dobbs: now he describes TV,
[1:02:41] Bob Dobbs: page 349,
[1:02:42] Bob Dobbs: as a heliotropical no-time,
[1:02:44] Bob Dobbs: so he refers back showing this is about television.
[1:02:46] Bob Dobbs: Heliotrope leads from harem.
[1:02:49] Bob Dobbs: Three ties.
[1:02:52] Bob Dobbs: Jockey the roper jerks Jake the rape.
[1:02:55] Bob Dobbs: Padrock and Bookley chat.
[1:02:58] Bob Dobbs: So that's
[1:02:59] Bob Dobbs: Patrick,
[1:03:00] Bob Dobbs: Padrock, and Berkeley is Bookley,
[1:03:03] Bob Dobbs: B-O-O-K,
[1:03:04] Bob Dobbs: right?
[1:03:05] Bob Dobbs: There's no media.
[1:03:06] Bob Dobbs: And then he goes,
[1:03:07] Bob Dobbs: and here are the details.
[1:03:09] Bob Dobbs: And it says,
[1:03:09] Bob Dobbs: Tunk,
[1:03:10] Bob Dobbs: T-U-N-C.
[1:03:12] Bob Dobbs: This is Bymey,
[1:03:13] Bob Dobbs: Bymey,
[1:03:14] Bob Dobbs: Bullocky,
[1:03:15] Bob Dobbs: Vampus,
[1:03:15] Bob Dobbs: Tappany,
[1:03:16] Bob Dobbs: Bobbs,
[1:03:16] Bob Dobbs: Topside,
[1:03:17] Bob Dobbs: Joss,
[1:03:18] Bob Dobbs: Pigeon,
[1:03:18] Bob Dobbs: Bella,
[1:03:18] Bob Dobbs: Bulkley,
[1:03:19] Bob Dobbs: Arch,
[1:03:20] Bob Dobbs: Druid of Islish,
[1:03:21] Bob Dobbs: Chinchin,
[1:03:21] Bob Dobbs: Joss,
[1:03:22] Bob Dobbs: and his heptachromatic,
[1:03:23] Bob Dobbs: seven-hued,
[1:03:24] Bob Dobbs: septicolored,
[1:03:26] Bob Dobbs: roaring,
[1:03:26] Bob Dobbs: yellow-green,
[1:03:27] Bob Dobbs: Lindigan mantle finish.
[1:03:29] Bob Dobbs: He show along to his Mr.
[1:03:31] Bob Dobbs: Guest Pathlick,
[1:03:32] Bob Dobbs: not Catholic,
[1:03:33] Bob Dobbs: Pathlick with a P,
[1:03:34] Bob Dobbs: with Al Belongham.
[1:03:36] Bob Dobbs: the hoes through the hoes through hum with of samer time all the his cassock groaner fellows of gray's friary family he fast all time what time all him monk of fellows with same path like now what i'm reading here is every damn fucking video on on
[1:03:54] Bob Dobbs: youtube now okay this language is so perfect for describing the multimedia people take in every day uh once you know once you know how to read it this way.
[1:04:06] Bob Dobbs: So,
[1:04:09] Bob Dobbs: the same patholic,
[1:04:10] Bob Dobbs: corneum,
[1:04:11] Bob Dobbs: speeching.
[1:04:12] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[1:04:12] Bob Dobbs: not speeching.
[1:04:14] Bob Dobbs: See,
[1:04:14] Bob Dobbs: not speaking,
[1:04:15] Bob Dobbs: he's speeching.
[1:04:17] Bob Dobbs: No man liberty is.
[1:04:18] Bob Dobbs: He drank up words.
[1:04:20] Bob Dobbs: Cicillid,
[1:04:20] Bob Dobbs: tomorrow till recover,
[1:04:22] Bob Dobbs: will not.
[1:04:23] Bob Dobbs: Not going to recover.
[1:04:24] Bob Dobbs: All too many much illusions through photoprismic velomena of hewful panephyphal world spectaculum of Lord Joss,
[1:04:34] Bob Dobbs: the of which Zoan...
[1:04:36] Bob Dobbs: solitic furniture from mineral through vegetable to animal.
[1:04:40] Bob Dobbs: You'll see he's always throwing a little glimpses of cliche evolutionary unfolding.
[1:04:47] Bob Dobbs: You know what I mean?
[1:04:47] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[1:04:51] Bob Dobbs: Quick retrieval of Gutenbergian evolution.
[1:04:56] Bob Dobbs: Literary.
[1:04:58] Bob Dobbs: evolution you know of forms so uh it says here from mineral through vegetable to animal not appear to full up together fallen man been under but one photo reflection there's your photography of
[1:05:13] Bob Dobbs: the several iridol's gradations of solar light that one which that part of it fernet of who pen to be world had shown itself see there's media self-reflexive part of fur of hue and pun war
[1:05:27] Bob Dobbs: Unable to absorb air,
[1:05:29] Bob Dobbs: whereas for number one pure dude seer,
[1:05:32] Bob Dobbs: S-E-E-R,
[1:05:33] Bob Dobbs: in seventh degree of wisdom of Entus Anton.
[1:05:36] Bob Dobbs: So you've got this occultist,
[1:05:40] Bob Dobbs: ritualistic,
[1:05:42] Bob Dobbs: tribal,
[1:05:43] Bob Dobbs: free Masonic guy,
[1:05:45] Bob Dobbs: Berkeley,
[1:05:46] Bob Dobbs: and he's up against the Catholic literate Patrick.
[1:05:50] Bob Dobbs: So it goes on,
[1:05:51] Bob Dobbs: their debate for two pages,
[1:05:54] Bob Dobbs: and it started off with punk,
[1:05:56] Bob Dobbs: and then about...
[1:05:56] Bob Dobbs: 80%
[1:05:57] Bob Dobbs: down,
[1:05:57] Bob Dobbs: it gets to punk,
[1:05:59] Bob Dobbs: P-U-N-C,
[1:06:00] Bob Dobbs: rather than T-U-N-C.
[1:06:01] Bob Dobbs: And it says,
[1:06:02] Bob Dobbs: Big Seer reflects the petty padre.
[1:06:07] Bob Dobbs: So the petty padre is Patrick.
[1:06:09] Bob Dobbs: Big Seer is Berkeley,
[1:06:11] Bob Dobbs: or Berkeley.
[1:06:12] Bob Dobbs: It's also Berkeley in the Gutenberg Galaxy,
[1:06:15] Bob Dobbs: besides the high priest of tribal stuff in Ireland.
[1:06:20] Bob Dobbs: Big Seer reflects the petty padre,
[1:06:23] Bob Dobbs: whackling it out.
[1:06:25] Bob Dobbs: A tumble to take,
[1:06:25] Bob Dobbs: triteness to call thing,
[1:06:27] Bob Dobbs: and to call if say is good,
[1:06:28] Bob Dobbs: well,
[1:06:29] Bob Dobbs: you poor shiroscuro.
[1:06:31] Bob Dobbs: Remember,
[1:06:32] Bob Dobbs: black and white TV is shiroscuro,
[1:06:33] Bob Dobbs: McLuhan used to talk about.
[1:06:35] Bob Dobbs: And he has right there,
[1:06:36] Bob Dobbs: shiroscuro,
[1:06:37] Bob Dobbs: black and white patty-inger.
[1:06:39] Bob Dobbs: So he's the litter guy,
[1:06:40] Bob Dobbs: he's black and white.
[1:06:42] Bob Dobbs: He's the book guy.
[1:06:43] Bob Dobbs: But this was a posterior,
[1:06:45] Bob Dobbs: a posterior prismically,
[1:06:47] Bob Dobbs: a pat-strophied and paralogically paraparalyzed celestial from Prince Apellas of Iroh's...
[1:06:55] Bob Dobbs: Irishman's ruin-boon pot before,
[1:06:58] Bob Dobbs: for being time-monk blinkers,
[1:07:00] Bob Dobbs: time-bling complementarily murk-blankered in the neutralesis between the possible veriditude of the sager and the proverbial eruburrection of the saint.
[1:07:13] Bob Dobbs: As my proper kiss to me wipe himself's nose-gates,
[1:07:18] Bob Dobbs: a hand-caught sheaf of synthetic chamois-rags,
[1:07:21] Bob Dobbs: to him's hers seeming such.
[1:07:24] Bob Dobbs: 4-3-2 agreement,
[1:07:25] Bob Dobbs: cause heart to be might,
[1:07:27] Bob Dobbs: saving to Balor and Ark,
[1:07:29] Bob Dobbs: he kneeleth.
[1:07:30] Bob Dobbs: To great Balor and Ark,
[1:07:31] Bob Dobbs: he kneeleth down.
[1:07:33] Bob Dobbs: To greatest great Balor and Ark,
[1:07:35] Bob Dobbs: he kneeleth down quite some lee.
[1:07:37] Bob Dobbs: The sound saw simple,
[1:07:39] Bob Dobbs: or symbol.
[1:07:40] Bob Dobbs: Remember tinkling symbol in Understanding Media?
[1:07:43] Cameron McEwen: Yes,
[1:07:43] Cameron McEwen: sir.
[1:07:43] Bob Dobbs: Tinkling symbol.
[1:07:44] Bob Dobbs: So you've got here,
[1:07:44] Bob Dobbs: the sound saw simple in a weed-weighed world of the fire there,
[1:07:49] Bob Dobbs: the sun,
[1:07:50] Bob Dobbs: in his holocast,
[1:07:52] Bob Dobbs: or in his halocast.
[1:07:53] Bob Dobbs: or holocaust or uh biblical what is it the holy ghost and it says on men or amen then he goes that was thing by god or the thing that here's saint patrick wins a debate apparently uh
[1:08:10] Bob Dobbs: and no one knows how he did it so they go that was the thing by god or the thing by god the very thing begad even to up to pity bilkley bilkley bulkley who was for shouting down the shadow on the Lamb of Jesus.
[1:08:21] Bob Dobbs: Sweating on the Stalker and throw his 7 as he shook his thumping 4 features at the hoi hop of his arse.
[1:08:29] Bob Dobbs: And it says thud,
[1:08:31] Bob Dobbs: T-H-U-D,
[1:08:31] Bob Dobbs: period.
[1:08:32] Bob Dobbs: And that's it.
[1:08:33] Bob Dobbs: Now,
[1:08:34] Bob Dobbs: Don Theall pointed out that thud is the 11th thunder.
[1:08:40] Bob Dobbs: There's 10 thunders.
[1:08:42] Bob Dobbs: And then in this replay,
[1:08:44] Bob Dobbs: it's condensed and it's the word thunder without N-E-R.
[1:08:50] Bob Dobbs: It's T-H-U-D.
[1:08:51] Bob Dobbs: But anyways,
[1:08:53] Bob Dobbs: that's the kind of ending.
[1:08:55] Bob Dobbs: Then you get that 612,
[1:08:58] Bob Dobbs: and then you go through more interesting stuff,
[1:09:02] Bob Dobbs: the afterimage of the debate,
[1:09:03] Bob Dobbs: and then you get to this in the middle of 614.
[1:09:08] Bob Dobbs: Finsance a worn.
[1:09:10] Bob Dobbs: Tuck up those wide shorts.
[1:09:12] Bob Dobbs: The pink of the basket for sheer give.
[1:09:14] Bob Dobbs: Peeps,
[1:09:15] Bob Dobbs: stand up to hardware and step into style.
[1:09:18] Bob Dobbs: McLuhan used to quote that.
[1:09:20] Bob Dobbs: Step up.
[1:09:21] Bob Dobbs: Stand up to hardware and step into style.
[1:09:23] Bob Dobbs: That's software.
[1:09:25] Bob Dobbs: Style is,
[1:09:26] Bob Dobbs: if you soil me,
[1:09:27] Bob Dobbs: pew it,
[1:09:28] Bob Dobbs: do it me preves,
[1:09:29] Bob Dobbs: for new man mon.
[1:09:32] Bob Dobbs: So new man.
[1:09:32] Bob Dobbs: For new man mon set a merge to the merge of unnotions.
[1:09:37] Bob Dobbs: Can't get a notion going.
[1:09:38] Bob Dobbs: Can't get a thought.
[1:09:39] Bob Dobbs: Too much happening.
[1:09:41] Bob Dobbs: Initian ones a game.
[1:09:42] Bob Dobbs: So that's almost like
[1:09:44] Bob Dobbs: Harold Innis.
[1:09:45] Bob Dobbs: Initian ones a game.
[1:09:46] Bob Dobbs: So then it says,
[1:09:48] Bob Dobbs: what has gone?
[1:09:49] Bob Dobbs: How it ends.
[1:09:50] Bob Dobbs: Two question marks.
[1:09:51] Bob Dobbs: What is going on?
[1:09:52] Bob Dobbs: How it ends?
[1:09:53] Bob Dobbs: And then it says,
[1:09:54] Bob Dobbs: begin to forget it.
[1:09:56] Bob Dobbs: It will remember itself from every side with all gestures in each our word.
[1:10:00] Bob Dobbs: Today's truth,
[1:10:01] Bob Dobbs: tomorrow's trend.
[1:10:02] Bob Dobbs: That's describing the 20th century.
[1:10:06] Bob Dobbs: The hospital of media in the Global Membrane,
[1:10:09] Bob Dobbs: in the end we mean,
[1:10:10] Bob Dobbs: is remembering itself all the time.
[1:10:12] Bob Dobbs: You don't have to remember anything.
[1:10:13] Bob Dobbs: It'll be right there for you,
[1:10:16] Bob Dobbs: right?
[1:10:16] Bob Dobbs: It's there in the media surround.
[1:10:19] Bob Dobbs: And so then,
[1:10:20] Bob Dobbs: because that...
[1:10:21] Bob Dobbs: It'll remember itself from every side with all gestures in each our word.
[1:10:25] Bob Dobbs: Now,
[1:10:25] Bob Dobbs: there it is,
[1:10:26] Bob Dobbs: trying to go beyond words.
[1:10:27] Bob Dobbs: Gestures in each our word.
[1:10:29] Bob Dobbs: Today's truth,
[1:10:30] Bob Dobbs: tomorrow's strength.
[1:10:31] Bob Dobbs: Then it says,
[1:10:31] Bob Dobbs: forget,
[1:10:32] Bob Dobbs: remember.
[1:10:33] Bob Dobbs: See?
[1:10:34] Bob Dobbs: Remember to forget.
[1:10:36] Bob Dobbs: How do you do that?
[1:10:37] Bob Dobbs: You're supposed to forget.
[1:10:38] Bob Dobbs: I'm not going to remember.
[1:10:40] Bob Dobbs: But it's telling me to remember to forget.
[1:10:42] Bob Dobbs: In other words,
[1:10:43] Bob Dobbs: you can't remember and you can't forget.
[1:10:47] Bob Dobbs: You're in this post.
[1:10:49] Bob Dobbs: Central nervous system situation,
[1:10:53] Bob Dobbs: post-ESP,
[1:10:54] Bob Dobbs: post-communication.
[1:10:55] Bob Dobbs: That's what's happening here.
[1:10:57] Bob Dobbs: You can't have total forgetfulness,
[1:11:00] Bob Dobbs: and you can't have total remembering,
[1:11:02] Bob Dobbs: but you're stuck oscillating between two glimpses of those former brain actions.
[1:11:08] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[1:11:09] Cameron McEwen: yeah.
[1:11:10] Bob Dobbs: So then it says,
[1:11:12] Bob Dobbs: forget,
[1:11:12] Bob Dobbs: remember.
[1:11:13] Bob Dobbs: Then it says,
[1:11:14] Bob Dobbs: have we cherished expectations?
[1:11:16] Bob Dobbs: Are we for liberty of perusiveness?
[1:11:19] Bob Dobbs: Why after what for where?
[1:11:21] Bob Dobbs: A plain plan litheism assemblements Iblanius'
[1:11:24] Bob Dobbs: conglomerate horde by dim delty diva.
[1:11:28] Bob Dobbs: And then it says forget
[1:11:31] Bob Dobbs: Everybody had to forget.
[1:11:34] Bob Dobbs: And then the paragraphs that
[1:11:36] Bob Dobbs: Theall always quoted,
[1:11:37] Bob Dobbs: he had a whole chapter made up of these
[1:11:41] Bob Dobbs: 20 lines.
[1:11:43] Bob Dobbs: He would quote this in every book.
[1:11:44] Bob Dobbs: So here,
[1:11:45] Bob Dobbs: this is a summary of Finnegans Wake.
[1:11:46] Bob Dobbs: This is Joyce telling us.
[1:11:48] Bob Dobbs: telling you what you've just experienced.
[1:11:50] Bob Dobbs: So it starts our whole mold,
[1:11:53] Bob Dobbs: mill-wheeling,
[1:11:54] Bob Dobbs: Vico cyclometer.
[1:11:56] Bob Dobbs: So there's Vico,
[1:11:57] Bob Dobbs: there's the bicycle,
[1:11:58] Bob Dobbs: and you look at the image on page 293 in the middle of the book,
[1:12:01] Bob Dobbs: it's like two wheels of a bicycle.
[1:12:03] Bob Dobbs: But it's a Vico cyclometer.
[1:12:05] Bob Dobbs: And then it has a tetrad,
[1:12:07] Bob Dobbs: tetrad,
[1:12:07] Bob Dobbs: a tetradomational gazebo crotacon.
[1:12:11] Bob Dobbs: And icon is in gazebo crotacon.
[1:12:14] Bob Dobbs: So you've got a tetradic icon.
[1:12:17] Bob Dobbs: The Mammalusia known to every schoolboy,
[1:12:19] Bob Dobbs: scandler,
[1:12:20] Bob Dobbs: be he Matty,
[1:12:20] Bob Dobbs: Marky,
[1:12:21] Bob Dobbs: Lukey,
[1:12:21] Bob Dobbs: or John the Donk,
[1:12:22] Bob Dobbs: auto-kinetonetically,
[1:12:24] Bob Dobbs: there's a great word,
[1:12:25] Bob Dobbs: auto-kinetonetically pre-provided,
[1:12:28] Bob Dobbs: if ex-proceeding causes,
[1:12:30] Bob Dobbs: with a clapper,
[1:12:31] Bob Dobbs: coupling,
[1:12:31] Bob Dobbs: smelting works,
[1:12:32] Bob Dobbs: ex-progressive process.
[1:12:35] Bob Dobbs: It's not progressive,
[1:12:36] Bob Dobbs: it's ex-progressive,
[1:12:38] Bob Dobbs: in brackets,
[1:12:39] Bob Dobbs: for the farmer,
[1:12:40] Bob Dobbs: his son,
[1:12:40] Bob Dobbs: and their homely codes,
[1:12:42] Bob Dobbs: their homely codes.
[1:12:43] Bob Dobbs: known as egg burst,
[1:12:45] Bob Dobbs: egg blend,
[1:12:45] Bob Dobbs: egg barrel,
[1:12:46] Bob Dobbs: and hatches hatch can.
[1:12:48] Bob Dobbs: So after you're born,
[1:12:51] Bob Dobbs: you're married,
[1:12:51] Bob Dobbs: and you're buried,
[1:12:53] Bob Dobbs: egg burst,
[1:12:53] Bob Dobbs: egg blend,
[1:12:54] Bob Dobbs: egg barrel,
[1:12:55] Bob Dobbs: you then keep living in the ICU,
[1:12:59] Bob Dobbs: and you hatches hatch can.
[1:13:01] Bob Dobbs: It's all random creativity.
[1:13:03] Bob Dobbs: So all that receives through a portal.
[1:13:06] Bob Dobbs: There's your portal.
[1:13:06] Bob Dobbs: It receives through a portal vein the dialytically separated elements of...
[1:13:11] Bob Dobbs: precedent or precedent decomposition for the very purpose of subsequent recombination so that the eroticisms catastrophes and eccentricities transmitted by the ancient legacy of the past then
[1:13:27] Bob Dobbs: there's a semicolon and then it gives the different means of transmitting ancient legacy,
[1:13:31] Bob Dobbs: typed by taupe letter from litter,
[1:13:34] Bob Dobbs: word at ward,
[1:13:35] Bob Dobbs: with sendance of sundance,
[1:13:37] Bob Dobbs: since the days of pluny and column cellos
[1:13:40] Bob Dobbs: Where Giancinta,
[1:13:41] Bob Dobbs: Provence,
[1:13:41] Bob Dobbs: and Margaret swayed over the all-too-ghoulish and ill-lyrical and inumantic in our mutter-nation,
[1:13:49] Bob Dobbs: all,
[1:13:50] Bob Dobbs: now here's a good bunch of words,
[1:13:53] Bob Dobbs: anastomozically,
[1:13:56] Bob Dobbs: it's like mosaic,
[1:13:57] Bob Dobbs: anastomozically,
[1:14:01] Bob Dobbs: anastomozically assimilated and preter-identified peridiotically.
[1:14:08] Bob Dobbs: So para...
[1:14:10] Bob Dobbs: Idiotically.
[1:14:11] Bob Dobbs: So there's a great summation here.
[1:14:13] Bob Dobbs: And anastomotically assimilated and preter-identified periodic idiotically.
[1:14:19] Bob Dobbs: In fact,
[1:14:20] Bob Dobbs: the same old game-bold atomic structure of our Phineas the Old One,
[1:14:28] Bob Dobbs: as highly charged with electrons as hop hazards can affect it.
[1:14:34] Bob Dobbs: See,
[1:14:34] Bob Dobbs: there's your electric thing.
[1:14:35] Bob Dobbs: As highly charged.
[1:14:37] Bob Dobbs: This old Phineas,
[1:14:37] Bob Dobbs: he's now highly charged with electrons as hop hazards can effective it.
[1:14:42] Bob Dobbs: So all that may be there for you,
[1:14:45] Bob Dobbs: cock-a-lura-lura-lura-luminos,
[1:14:47] Bob Dobbs: that's the rooster in the morning.
[1:14:49] Bob Dobbs: So all that may be there when cup,
[1:14:51] Bob Dobbs: platter,
[1:14:52] Bob Dobbs: and pot come piping hot as sure as herself pits into paper and their scribing scrawled on eggs.
[1:15:01] Bob Dobbs: So there it is,
[1:15:01] Bob Dobbs: the whole book.
[1:15:02] Bob Dobbs: And then it says,
[1:15:03] Bob Dobbs: of cause so,
[1:15:05] Bob Dobbs: so,
[1:15:06] Bob Dobbs: exclamation mark.
[1:15:07] Bob Dobbs: And in effect as,
[1:15:09] Bob Dobbs: it's a question,
[1:15:10] Bob Dobbs: so it's of cause so.
[1:15:12] Bob Dobbs: So I've given you the causes.
[1:15:14] Bob Dobbs: And in effect as what,
[1:15:18] Bob Dobbs: as question mark.
[1:15:19] Bob Dobbs: And then it gives,
[1:15:21] Bob Dobbs: the end of the book is
[1:15:24] Bob Dobbs: ALP, her monologue,
[1:15:25] Bob Dobbs: you know,
[1:15:26] Bob Dobbs: redoing Molly and Ulysses.
[1:15:28] Bob Dobbs: And basically.
[1:15:30] Bob Dobbs: Stating the letter once again.
[1:15:34] Bob Dobbs: So that's the last scene.
[1:15:37] Bob Dobbs: So going back to
[1:15:39] Bob Dobbs: Kevin should be,
[1:15:40] Bob Dobbs: yeah,
[1:15:41] Bob Dobbs: Kevin's on 604.
[1:15:44] Bob Dobbs: And then the debate is on 610.
[1:15:51] Bob Dobbs: So what is the first,
[1:15:53] Bob Dobbs: the third first?
[1:15:54] Bob Dobbs: Is there something?
[1:15:56] Bob Dobbs: Looking,
[1:15:57] Bob Dobbs: the whole scene.
[1:16:01] Bob Dobbs: A chart emerges on the beginning of Book 4.
[1:16:05] Bob Dobbs: There's a lot of
[1:16:08] Bob Dobbs: Buddhist,
[1:16:09] Bob Dobbs: Hinduist chanting.
[1:16:12] Bob Dobbs: And it's also a cab driver calling out to people.
[1:16:17] Bob Dobbs: It is.
[1:16:18] Bob Dobbs: Calling all downs.
[1:16:20] Bob Dobbs: Calling all downs to Dane.
[1:16:21] Bob Dobbs: Raise your erection.
[1:16:23] Bob Dobbs: What?
[1:16:23] Cameron McEwen: And it's a control tower as well.
[1:16:25] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[1:16:26] Bob Dobbs: yeah.
[1:16:27] Bob Dobbs: And then it says near the bottom,
[1:16:28] Bob Dobbs: a hand from the cloud emerges holding a chart expanded.
[1:16:33] Bob Dobbs: That's my chart.
[1:16:35] Bob Dobbs: And so then it goes on explaining the chart and talking about a child.
[1:16:49] Bob Dobbs: I'm not sure if there's an image in here before you get to Kevin.
[1:16:53] Bob Dobbs: It does say on page 598,
[1:16:55] Bob Dobbs: the herb it orbs.
[1:16:57] Bob Dobbs: So it's like a scene from 2001.
[1:16:59] Bob Dobbs: You're out in space,
[1:17:00] Bob Dobbs: you know,
[1:17:00] Bob Dobbs: looking at Earth or something.
[1:17:05] Bob Dobbs: The herb it orbs.
[1:17:06] Bob Dobbs: Thens now with nows then intense continuant.
[1:17:09] Bob Dobbs: So,
[1:17:10] Bob Dobbs: see,
[1:17:10] Bob Dobbs: there's where we're living.
[1:17:11] Bob Dobbs: Thens now with nows then intense continuant.
[1:17:15] Bob Dobbs: And then it says heard.
[1:17:17] Bob Dobbs: All this is heard.
[1:17:18] Bob Dobbs: Who having has,
[1:17:19] Bob Dobbs: he shall have had.
[1:17:20] Bob Dobbs: Here,
[1:17:21] Bob Dobbs: upon the thud strokes.
[1:17:23] Bob Dobbs: Truck,
[1:17:23] Bob Dobbs: Jim,
[1:17:24] Bob Dobbs: it will be exactly so,
[1:17:26] Bob Dobbs: fewer hours by so many minutes of the opal,
[1:17:28] Bob Dobbs: the dyer,
[1:17:28] Bob Dobbs: and of the senate,
[1:17:29] Bob Dobbs: of the main,
[1:17:29] Bob Dobbs: of the year,
[1:17:30] Bob Dobbs: of the age,
[1:17:30] Bob Dobbs: of the man,
[1:17:31] Bob Dobbs: of the man,
[1:17:31] Bob Dobbs: of the door,
[1:17:31] Bob Dobbs: of the glass guy,
[1:17:32] Bob Dobbs: and little lady.
[1:17:35] Bob Dobbs: Did I hear you laughing?
[1:17:37] Cameron McEwen: Yes,
[1:17:37] Cameron McEwen: sir.
[1:17:39] Bob Dobbs: Okay,
[1:17:39] Bob Dobbs: so it gets into Brown and Nolan,
[1:17:42] Bob Dobbs: they're always repeated.
[1:17:44] Bob Dobbs: You know,
[1:17:44] Bob Dobbs: I'm really not sure.
[1:17:46] Bob Dobbs: Okay,
[1:17:46] Bob Dobbs: it gets into
[1:17:47] Bob Dobbs: Kevin and he's in the pool.
[1:17:50] Bob Dobbs: So what...
[1:17:51] Bob Dobbs: Is the whole scene with ALP the third scene?
[1:17:55] Bob Dobbs: Maybe Muta and Juva.
[1:17:58] Bob Dobbs: No,
[1:17:58] Bob Dobbs: they're anticipating the debate.
[1:18:01] Bob Dobbs: So that's interesting.
[1:18:02] Bob Dobbs: Right now,
[1:18:03] Bob Dobbs: I'm not sure what the third scene is.
[1:18:07] Bob Dobbs: Third triptych.
[1:18:10] Cameron McEwen: I think it's the river.
[1:18:11] Cameron McEwen: I think it's...
[1:18:13] Bob Dobbs: You mean the last line?
[1:18:16] Cameron McEwen: No,
[1:18:17] Cameron McEwen: the whole monologue at the end.
[1:18:19] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[1:18:19] Bob Dobbs: okay,
[1:18:20] Bob Dobbs: yeah.
[1:18:20] Bob Dobbs: That's the ALP scene,
[1:18:22] Bob Dobbs: I'm calling it.
[1:18:22] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[1:18:22] Bob Dobbs: yeah,
[1:18:23] Cameron McEwen: yeah.
[1:18:24] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[1:18:24] Bob Dobbs: okay,
[1:18:25] Bob Dobbs: let's say that's it.
[1:18:26] Bob Dobbs: But I'm just,
[1:18:27] Bob Dobbs: I'm not seeing,
[1:18:30] Bob Dobbs: so I know it's book four,
[1:18:32] Bob Dobbs: Finnegans Wake,
[1:18:33] Bob Dobbs: three scenes.
[1:18:36] Bob Dobbs: They,
[1:18:38] Bob Dobbs: in book three,
[1:18:39] Bob Dobbs: chapter four,
[1:18:40] Bob Dobbs: when they're doing the porter's bedroom,
[1:18:44] Bob Dobbs: they have the three or four sex positions.
[1:18:49] Bob Dobbs: Thank you.
[1:18:50] Bob Dobbs: Each one of the evangelists is identified with a particular sex position.
[1:18:54] Bob Dobbs: So that's a bunch of posturing before you get to the final book.
[1:18:59] Bob Dobbs: But let's see,
[1:19:03] Bob Dobbs: where could I get the...
[1:19:05] Bob Dobbs: Why can't someone tell me what the three scenes are?
[1:19:10] Bob Dobbs: See,
[1:19:11] Bob Dobbs: where's my ESP?
[1:19:12] Bob Dobbs: It's not working.
[1:19:14] Cameron McEwen: I don't know,
[1:19:15] Cameron McEwen: I'd say it's working pretty well.
[1:19:17] Bob Dobbs: Yes,
[1:19:17] Bob Dobbs: it's okay.
[1:19:18] Cameron McEwen: All things don't need to be answered.
[1:19:21] Bob Dobbs: Right,
[1:19:22] Bob Dobbs: yeah.
[1:19:23] Bob Dobbs: Book 2,
[1:19:23] Bob Dobbs: Chapter 3,
[1:19:26] Bob Dobbs: How to Read Finnegans Wake.
[1:19:29] Bob Dobbs: You know,
[1:19:30] Bob Dobbs: if I went into the garage,
[1:19:32] Bob Dobbs: I've got about six copies of Finnegans Wake with notes.
[1:19:35] Bob Dobbs: One of them probably has them in there.
[1:19:37] Bob Dobbs: So
[1:19:38] Bob Dobbs: I'll go look at some point,
[1:19:40] Bob Dobbs: maybe next time we'll see if I did enumerate the three scenes.
[1:19:44] Bob Dobbs: Somewhere's in the book.
[1:19:47] Bob Dobbs: But it's not in this one.
[1:19:48] Bob Dobbs: This is a newer book with less notes,
[1:19:52] Bob Dobbs: a newer copy.
[1:19:53] Bob Dobbs: So,
[1:19:55] Bob Dobbs: okay,
[1:19:55] Bob Dobbs: where are we at?
[1:19:57] Bob Dobbs: Let's get back.
[1:19:59] Cameron McEwen: One place where we're at is that we started off.
[1:20:03] Cameron McEwen: talking about a transition between languages.
[1:20:08] Cameron McEwen: And here you were reading
[1:20:12] Cameron McEwen: Finnegans Wake with tremendous skill,
[1:20:16] Cameron McEwen: I would say.
[1:20:17] Cameron McEwen: Thank you.
[1:20:18] Cameron McEwen: Obviously,
[1:20:18] Cameron McEwen: you've done a lot of practice and you've become acclimatized to this language.
[1:20:26] Cameron McEwen: And it's,
[1:20:29] Cameron McEwen: again,
[1:20:30] Cameron McEwen: like the adult,
[1:20:31] Cameron McEwen: trying to teach the baby to talk.
[1:20:35] Cameron McEwen: But now,
[1:20:38] Cameron McEwen: instead of encouraging the baby to make its own sounds,
[1:20:47] Cameron McEwen: you're trying to introduce the new sounds to the baby.
[1:20:52] Cameron McEwen: And so it's both an illustration.
[1:20:57] Cameron McEwen: of what we were talking about before and going beyond what we were talking before.
[1:21:02] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[1:21:02] Bob Dobbs: and the last bit
[1:21:03] Bob Dobbs: I read,
[1:21:04] Bob Dobbs: he yells out,
[1:21:05] Bob Dobbs: hear
[1:21:06] Bob Dobbs: Exactly what you just said,
[1:21:07] Bob Dobbs: trying to get the person to see the baby to hear the new sounds,
[1:21:11] Bob Dobbs: a new way of the ear.
[1:21:13] Bob Dobbs: There's a new ear scape that's not just the ear.
[1:21:20] Bob Dobbs: You can see why people in the middle of the global theater in the 60s started...
[1:21:24] Bob Dobbs: being attracted to LSD and having this synesthesia experience.
[1:21:28] Bob Dobbs: As McLuhan said,
[1:21:29] Bob Dobbs: they were trying to match with what they were already getting unconsciously,
[1:21:35] Bob Dobbs: the global theater synesthesia.
[1:21:37] Cameron McEwen: Right,
[1:21:38] Cameron McEwen: but the mistake was in the matching.
[1:21:40] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[1:21:43] Bob Dobbs: but then the trend is to the digital,
[1:21:45] Bob Dobbs: which is the co-anesthesia.
[1:21:46] Bob Dobbs: This is what's not known by 99%
[1:21:49] Bob Dobbs: of humanity or all joy scholars.
[1:21:51] Bob Dobbs: They don't know.
[1:21:52] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[1:21:52] Bob Dobbs: we know about synesthesia,
[1:21:53] Bob Dobbs: but...
[1:21:54] Bob Dobbs: Co-anesthesia,
[1:21:54] Bob Dobbs: as Theall points out,
[1:21:56] Bob Dobbs: is gradually putting you at the center of the driving mechanism.
[1:22:01] Bob Dobbs: You are at the center in your digital surround now.
[1:22:06] Bob Dobbs: You make the environments.
[1:22:08] Bob Dobbs: You input them.
[1:22:09] Bob Dobbs: You sculpt them.
[1:22:11] Bob Dobbs: That's co-anesthesia,
[1:22:12] Bob Dobbs: being put in the driver's seat more and more.
[1:22:16] Cameron McEwen: But the you can't be mistaken for the Gutenbergian you.
[1:22:22] Bob Dobbs: Did you say you?
[1:22:23] Bob Dobbs: Why are you?
[1:22:24] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.
[1:22:25] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[1:22:25] Bob Dobbs: Oh,
[1:22:25] Bob Dobbs: that's right.
[1:22:27] Bob Dobbs: You're not getting into the panopticon,
[1:22:29] Bob Dobbs: though most people take it as a panopticon.
[1:22:34] Cameron McEwen: Right.
[1:22:34] Cameron McEwen: Right.
[1:22:36] Cameron McEwen: So the you is a question.
[1:22:38] Cameron McEwen: It's not the answer.
[1:22:40] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[1:22:40] Bob Dobbs: that would be in effect as.
[1:22:42] Bob Dobbs: See,
[1:22:42] Bob Dobbs: that's so perfect what he says.
[1:22:44] Bob Dobbs: The effect of all this,
[1:22:46] Bob Dobbs: he's not sure.
[1:22:47] Bob Dobbs: It's as what?
[1:22:49] Bob Dobbs: We haven't got a metaphor for it.
[1:22:51] Bob Dobbs: You're not panopticon.
[1:22:52] Bob Dobbs: You're not this.
[1:22:53] Bob Dobbs: You're not that.
[1:22:54] Bob Dobbs: You are a super angel.
[1:22:55] Bob Dobbs: You're everywhere at once.
[1:22:56] Bob Dobbs: You can't visualize the seat that you've been put in the center of.
[1:23:02] Bob Dobbs: You can't hear it.
[1:23:04] Cameron McEwen: The as what question mark is a perfect representation of the language in Finnegans Wake,
[1:23:12] Cameron McEwen: because it seems like the question mark is a termination of the as what.
[1:23:21] Cameron McEwen: But actually,
[1:23:22] Cameron McEwen: it's the answer.
[1:23:23] Cameron McEwen: to as what?
[1:23:24] Bob Dobbs: That's right.
[1:23:25] Bob Dobbs: So he sums up the whole,
[1:23:27] Bob Dobbs: he's always summing up the book at different places,
[1:23:29] Bob Dobbs: like that long session,
[1:23:30] Bob Dobbs: homo,
[1:23:31] Bob Dobbs: meal,
[1:23:31] Bob Dobbs: wheeling,
[1:23:31] Bob Dobbs: beagles,
[1:23:31] Bob Dobbs: the kilometer,
[1:23:33] Bob Dobbs: the 20 lines,
[1:23:34] Bob Dobbs: that's a paragraph,
[1:23:35] Bob Dobbs: a great summary paragraph of all the directions going on.
[1:23:39] Bob Dobbs: But yeah,
[1:23:39] Bob Dobbs: you have here,
[1:23:40] Bob Dobbs: forget,
[1:23:41] Bob Dobbs: remember,
[1:23:41] Bob Dobbs: and then you have of cause,
[1:23:43] Bob Dobbs: so,
[1:23:44] Bob Dobbs: and in effect,
[1:23:45] Bob Dobbs: as,
[1:23:46] Bob Dobbs: and he could have written at the first beginning of the book.
[1:23:48] Bob Dobbs: He said,
[1:23:48] Bob Dobbs: okay,
[1:23:49] Bob Dobbs: I'm going to try to write you something,
[1:23:50] Bob Dobbs: but
[1:23:51] Bob Dobbs: I'm not sure if I'm ever going to get metaphor one for you.
[1:23:56] Bob Dobbs: I can't make a metaphor.
[1:23:57] Bob Dobbs: I can't tell you what this is like.
[1:24:02] Bob Dobbs: He says that right there.
[1:24:03] Bob Dobbs: And that is a transitional point because then it goes into the final scene of the river,
[1:24:09] Bob Dobbs: which is what your eternal present that's unfolding.
[1:24:12] Bob Dobbs: And in my mind,
[1:24:14] Bob Dobbs: I read a couple of phrases,
[1:24:15] Bob Dobbs: the continuant,
[1:24:16] Bob Dobbs: that are talking about the ongoing present.
[1:24:19] Bob Dobbs: that has the pressure on everybody that we're endlessly engaging now so it makes a lot of sense man i talk myself into tiffany's all the time it brings me with this stuff you know what i mean yeah yeah
[1:24:39] Cameron McEwen: it's uh uh what we've done or what you have done i should say is you've opened a kind of trap door
[1:24:48] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[1:24:49] Cameron McEwen: That leads out of your pamphlet over to the wake.
[1:24:53] Bob Dobbs: That's right.
[1:24:55] Bob Dobbs: And then it goes to my chart,
[1:24:57] Bob Dobbs: which is based on the wake,
[1:24:58] Bob Dobbs: which has the five bodies in it.
[1:25:01] Bob Dobbs: You know,
[1:25:01] Bob Dobbs: I have the five members of the family of the five quadrants,
[1:25:05] Bob Dobbs: but there's your portal.
[1:25:09] Bob Dobbs: This pamphlet has a portal to all kinds of things.
[1:25:14] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[1:25:15] Cameron McEwen: the portal is the porter.
[1:25:20] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[1:25:22] Bob Dobbs: so it's perfect that,
[1:25:23] Bob Dobbs: I mean,
[1:25:23] Bob Dobbs: that's French for door,
[1:25:24] Bob Dobbs: opening door,
[1:25:25] Bob Dobbs: to porter or something?
[1:25:27] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[1:25:28] Cameron McEwen: a porter is...
[1:25:30] Cameron McEwen: to cross or to carry.
[1:25:32] Bob Dobbs: Right,
[1:25:32] Bob Dobbs: but the door,
[1:25:34] Bob Dobbs: isn't it,
[1:25:34] Bob Dobbs: to open a door is a porter?
[1:25:36] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[1:25:37] Cameron McEwen: yeah,
[1:25:37] Cameron McEwen: yeah,
[1:25:37] Bob Dobbs: la porte is a door.
[1:25:40] Bob Dobbs: So it's great that he changes the
[1:25:50] Bob Dobbs: Earwicker family,
[1:25:51] Bob Dobbs: Humphrey,
[1:25:51] Bob Dobbs: Chimpton,
[1:25:52] Bob Dobbs: Earwicker.
[1:25:53] Bob Dobbs: They become the porters,
[1:25:56] Bob Dobbs: which then is...
[1:25:57] Bob Dobbs: all the different media which are different doorways to different aspects of what happened to the earwickers.
[1:26:04] Bob Dobbs: Amazing.
[1:26:06] Bob Dobbs: So you get endless pattern recognition as you learn how to deal with the wake.
[1:26:12] Bob Dobbs: Endless patterns.
[1:26:13] Bob Dobbs: Creativity comes out of you.
[1:26:15] Bob Dobbs: And that allows you to speak back to the Android meme or the tech body.
[1:26:22] Bob Dobbs: You can talk back.
[1:26:23] Bob Dobbs: Okay,
[1:26:23] Bob Dobbs: you're going to throw all this...
[1:26:25] Bob Dobbs: Bombardment at me?
[1:26:26] Bob Dobbs: I'm going to bombard you back.
[1:26:31] Bob Dobbs: You know,
[1:26:33] Bob Dobbs: when Marg Stewart broke her hip,
[1:26:37] Bob Dobbs: McLuhan sent her a pizza.
[1:26:41] Bob Dobbs: And it just had written on it,
[1:26:44] Bob Dobbs: the medium is the message.
[1:26:45] Bob Dobbs: But then another time,
[1:26:47] Bob Dobbs: he said something else.
[1:26:49] Bob Dobbs: And he said,
[1:26:49] Bob Dobbs: here's mud in your eye.
[1:26:54] Bob Dobbs: So he was always playing off this bombardment scenario,
[1:26:58] Bob Dobbs: even to his own secretary,
[1:27:00] Bob Dobbs: which he's laid up in the hospital.
[1:27:03] Bob Dobbs: He never stopped working.
[1:27:07] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[1:27:08] Cameron McEwen: by working,
[1:27:10] Cameron McEwen: you mean talking.
[1:27:12] Bob Dobbs: Talking,
[1:27:12] Bob Dobbs: enhancing,
[1:27:14] Bob Dobbs: attacking,
[1:27:15] Bob Dobbs: massaging you,
[1:27:17] Bob Dobbs: trying to see if you can keep up with his mind,
[1:27:20] Bob Dobbs: his pattern of recognition.
[1:27:21] Bob Dobbs: One even called it a mind.
[1:27:24] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[1:27:25] Cameron McEwen: he was constantly channeling.
[1:27:28] Bob Dobbs: That's right.
[1:27:29] Bob Dobbs: Conscious mediumship.
[1:27:31] Bob Dobbs: Conscious mediumship.
[1:27:33] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[1:27:37] Bob Dobbs: yeah.
[1:27:37] Bob Dobbs: So let's see what we got here.
[1:27:39] Bob Dobbs: After the hospital,
[1:27:43] Bob Dobbs: let's see what,
[1:27:44] Bob Dobbs: I'm going to read the next part.
[1:27:46] Bob Dobbs: After,
[1:27:46] Bob Dobbs: that's our modern hospital.
[1:27:48] Bob Dobbs: And I'm talking about the new bodies,
[1:27:52] Bob Dobbs: our corporate investments,
[1:27:53] Bob Dobbs: now we're small enough.
[1:27:54] Bob Dobbs: So the landscapes or corporate vestments are small enough to be considered as organs,
[1:28:00] Bob Dobbs: like lungs,
[1:28:00] Bob Dobbs: that are new additions to our archetypal chemical body and astral body.
[1:28:09] Bob Dobbs: Then I say the chemical body is what most people consider to be their physical body,
[1:28:14] Bob Dobbs: physical body in quotes.
[1:28:15] Bob Dobbs: The dominant model for this is the product of Western science since the telegraph.
[1:28:20] Bob Dobbs: The astral body is what now Western science is a...
[1:28:25] Bob Dobbs: A cartoon statement of all the technologies that started happening in the 19th century,
[1:28:29] Bob Dobbs: right?
[1:28:30] Bob Dobbs: All the explaining and interpreting and the technologies,
[1:28:35] Bob Dobbs: that's Western science.
[1:28:37] Bob Dobbs: The dominant model for this is the product of Western science since the telegraph.
[1:28:41] Bob Dobbs: The astral body is what pervades all cultures.
[1:28:44] Bob Dobbs: The belief there is more to our makeup than the chemical body.
[1:28:48] Bob Dobbs: It is a huge storehouse of religious and spiritual energy.
[1:28:52] Bob Dobbs: The third organ is the TV body.
[1:28:54] Bob Dobbs: the repository of historical one-way analog broadcasting.
[1:28:58] Bob Dobbs: The fourth is the chip body,
[1:29:00] Bob Dobbs: the mutating warehouse,
[1:29:02] Bob Dobbs: there's your archive,
[1:29:03] Bob Dobbs: of digital omnidirectional media.
[1:29:05] Bob Dobbs: The fifth is the mystery body,
[1:29:07] Bob Dobbs: what we're still excavating and whose lineaments we cannot fully assess yet,
[1:29:11] Bob Dobbs: if ever.
[1:29:13] Bob Dobbs: We now know it's made up of the previous four bodies,
[1:29:16] Bob Dobbs: the mystery body is made up of the previous four bodies,
[1:29:19] Bob Dobbs: but we don't know what more we will discover about its constituents,
[1:29:22] Bob Dobbs: effects,
[1:29:22] Bob Dobbs: and effects.
[1:29:24] Bob Dobbs: The Android meme is a resultant.
[1:29:27] Bob Dobbs: That's a technical term,
[1:29:28] Bob Dobbs: resultant,
[1:29:28] Bob Dobbs: right?
[1:29:29] Bob Dobbs: Is that in geometry?
[1:29:33] Bob Dobbs: Maybe.
[1:29:36] Cameron McEwen: It's not a common word,
[1:29:37] Cameron McEwen: that's for sure.
[1:29:38] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[1:29:39] Bob Dobbs: and I think it has a technical meaning,
[1:29:41] Bob Dobbs: that's why I picked it.
[1:29:43] Bob Dobbs: Resultant.
[1:29:50] Cameron McEwen: Some kind of resolution of forces,
[1:29:53] Cameron McEwen: maybe.
[1:29:53] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[1:29:53] Bob Dobbs: it says something that results,
[1:29:56] Bob Dobbs: outcome.
[1:29:57] Bob Dobbs: Specifically,
[1:29:58] Bob Dobbs: the single vector that is the sum of a given set of vectors.
[1:30:04] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[1:30:04] Cameron McEwen: yeah.
[1:30:05] Bob Dobbs: Okay,
[1:30:06] Bob Dobbs: the single vector that is the sum,
[1:30:07] Bob Dobbs: stands in for the sum,
[1:30:10] Bob Dobbs: is not the sum actually.
[1:30:12] Bob Dobbs: The Android meme is the resultant of the,
[1:30:16] Bob Dobbs: so that's what we,
[1:30:18] Bob Dobbs: our tactility coheres our perceptions in our minds,
[1:30:22] Bob Dobbs: our brains,
[1:30:23] Bob Dobbs: and then collectively.
[1:30:25] Bob Dobbs: The Android meme is the image of the day that dominates because it's the resultant of the interplay,
[1:30:33] Bob Dobbs: violent and ecstatic,
[1:30:34] Bob Dobbs: of the first four bodies.
[1:30:36] Bob Dobbs: So the news is somebody trying to wrap up the day with some iconic statement.
[1:30:44] Bob Dobbs: Okay,
[1:30:44] Bob Dobbs: this is what your day meant today.
[1:30:47] Bob Dobbs: So
[1:30:48] Bob Dobbs: I'm just going to go over to Drudge.
[1:30:50] Bob Dobbs: Let's see what the...
[1:30:52] Bob Dobbs: they're already into...
[1:30:54] Bob Dobbs: Thursday,
[1:30:55] Bob Dobbs: let's see what their iconic image,
[1:31:01] Bob Dobbs: the resultant,
[1:31:02] Bob Dobbs: is for
[1:31:03] Bob Dobbs: July 13th.
[1:31:08] Cameron McEwen: I didn't know that Drudge was still going.
[1:31:11] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[1:31:12] Bob Dobbs: I think he sold it.
[1:31:13] Bob Dobbs: I heard that he sold it.
[1:31:15] Cameron McEwen: Well,
[1:31:15] Cameron McEwen: he died,
[1:31:15] Cameron McEwen: didn't he?
[1:31:16] Bob Dobbs: No,
[1:31:16] Bob Dobbs: no,
[1:31:16] Bob Dobbs: he's still going.
[1:31:18] Bob Dobbs: Well,
[1:31:19] Bob Dobbs: according to iON,
[1:31:19] Bob Dobbs: he was murdered,
[1:31:20] Bob Dobbs: but who's going to believe that?
[1:31:24] Bob Dobbs: Just so for the record,
[1:31:26] Bob Dobbs: who's dead?
[1:31:27] Bob Dobbs: Hillary and Bill Clinton,
[1:31:28] Bob Dobbs: Putin,
[1:31:29] Bob Dobbs: Biden,
[1:31:31] Bob Dobbs: most of the criminals in the Trump administration,
[1:31:34] Bob Dobbs: you know,
[1:31:35] Bob Dobbs: the FBI guy Comey,
[1:31:37] Bob Dobbs: all those guys that everybody wants to put in jail,
[1:31:39] Bob Dobbs: they're all dead.
[1:31:40] Bob Dobbs: They were done off by somebody's assassination squad.
[1:31:43] Bob Dobbs: And then who did I just start off with?
[1:31:47] Bob Dobbs: Trump's still alive.
[1:31:49] Bob Dobbs: Bill Clinton,
[1:31:51] Bob Dobbs: he's gone.
[1:31:54] Bob Dobbs: I mentioned someone right off at the beginning.
[1:31:56] Bob Dobbs: Oh,
[1:31:56] Bob Dobbs: Drudge.
[1:31:57] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[1:31:57] Bob Dobbs: Drudge is gone.
[1:31:59] Bob Dobbs: Okay,
[1:32:00] Bob Dobbs: so it says here,
[1:32:01] Bob Dobbs: Hollywood actors.
[1:32:03] Bob Dobbs: Remember,
[1:32:03] Bob Dobbs: everybody's an actor in the global theater.
[1:32:06] Bob Dobbs: Hollywood actors poised for a strike after studio talks and without deal.
[1:32:12] Bob Dobbs: Dot,
[1:32:12] Bob Dobbs: dot,
[1:32:12] Bob Dobbs: dot.
[1:32:13] Bob Dobbs: Developing.
[1:32:14] Bob Dobbs: Dot,
[1:32:14] Bob Dobbs: dot,
[1:32:14] Bob Dobbs: dot.
[1:32:16] Bob Dobbs: So remember in the DEW-Line.
[1:32:19] Bob Dobbs: Do you have the DEW-Lines?
[1:32:22] Cameron McEwen: I have it in electronic form,
[1:32:24] Cameron McEwen: yeah.
[1:32:25] Bob Dobbs: Okay.
[1:32:26] Bob Dobbs: One of them is called Strike the Set.
[1:32:29] Cameron McEwen: Yes.
[1:32:29] Bob Dobbs: Right?
[1:32:30] Bob Dobbs: That's the strike.
[1:32:30] Bob Dobbs: That's what's happening here.
[1:32:31] Bob Dobbs: Hollywood actors trying to strike the set,
[1:32:34] Bob Dobbs: trying to stop the world and get off.
[1:32:36] Bob Dobbs: So here is what the icon for today says.
[1:32:40] Bob Dobbs: Summer surprise.
[1:32:42] Bob Dobbs: Inflation finally eases.
[1:32:44] Bob Dobbs: 3%
[1:32:45] Bob Dobbs: lowest in years.
[1:32:46] Bob Dobbs: End of Fed emergency.
[1:32:48] Bob Dobbs: But food still up.
[1:32:53] Bob Dobbs: So the digital statistical reality is okay,
[1:32:57] Bob Dobbs: but for the chemical body,
[1:32:59] Bob Dobbs: you ain't going to eat.
[1:33:00] Bob Dobbs: You can't afford food.
[1:33:03] Bob Dobbs: So multiple dynamics going on.
[1:33:08] Bob Dobbs: AI doomsday scenarios gaining traction in Silicon Valley.
[1:33:13] Bob Dobbs: Quote,
[1:33:13] Bob Dobbs: I think we're all going to die.
[1:33:17] Bob Dobbs: There's nostalgia.
[1:33:18] Bob Dobbs: Hey,
[1:33:19] Bob Dobbs: buddy,
[1:33:19] Bob Dobbs: we died 30,
[1:33:20] Bob Dobbs: 40 years ago.
[1:33:21] Bob Dobbs: It was Planet of the Dead in the
[1:33:23] Bob Dobbs: 70s.
[1:33:24] Bob Dobbs: As Twitter continues to implode,
[1:33:26] Bob Dobbs: advertisers eye its reds.
[1:33:29] Bob Dobbs: Ocean temperatures off Florida hit 97 degrees.
[1:33:35] Bob Dobbs: Update.
[1:33:35] Bob Dobbs: Chinese hackers breach email of Commerce Secretary and State Department officials.
[1:33:40] Bob Dobbs: On it goes.
[1:33:44] Bob Dobbs: On and on and on.
[1:33:46] Bob Dobbs: Okay,
[1:33:46] Bob Dobbs: let's get back to making sense.
[1:33:50] Bob Dobbs: So
[1:33:51] Bob Dobbs: I was reading about what?
[1:33:55] Cameron McEwen: You were reading about the four bodies and the fifth one.
[1:33:59] Bob Dobbs: The resultant.
[1:34:00] Bob Dobbs: Yes.
[1:34:01] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.
[1:34:01] Cameron McEwen: So,
[1:34:02] Cameron McEwen: but in the middle of this paragraph,
[1:34:05] Cameron McEwen: you say the fifth,
[1:34:07] Cameron McEwen: that is to say the fifth body is the mystery body.
[1:34:09] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[1:34:10] Cameron McEwen: And then you go on and you say it's made up of the previous four bodies.
[1:34:18] Bob Dobbs: Yes.
[1:34:19] Cameron McEwen: Right?
[1:34:19] Cameron McEwen: But then you say that the Android meme is the resultant of the first four bodies.
[1:34:25] Cameron McEwen: So you seem to correlate the Android meme with the mystery body.
[1:34:29] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[1:34:30] Bob Dobbs: so I'm playing four off of five.
[1:34:33] Bob Dobbs: Frank Zingrone told me that the Western alchemy is four levels,
[1:34:38] Bob Dobbs: four aspects.
[1:34:40] Bob Dobbs: Chinese,
[1:34:41] Bob Dobbs: Asian alchemy is five.
[1:34:42] Bob Dobbs: So it's four,
[1:34:43] Bob Dobbs: five.
[1:34:44] Bob Dobbs: So
[1:34:44] Bob Dobbs: I talk about the four quadrants,
[1:34:46] Bob Dobbs: but there's five there.
[1:34:48] Bob Dobbs: But that's because the fifth one,
[1:34:50] Bob Dobbs: the Dobbs quadrant,
[1:34:51] Bob Dobbs: contains the four.
[1:34:53] Bob Dobbs: So it is the invisible tactility framework.
[1:34:57] Bob Dobbs: So you've got five bodies,
[1:34:59] Bob Dobbs: which contain the four,
[1:35:01] Bob Dobbs: but it must include the eschatological,
[1:35:03] Bob Dobbs: the fourth level of exegesis,
[1:35:06] Bob Dobbs: which
[1:35:07] Bob Dobbs: McLuhan defined as grasping for straws.
[1:35:09] Bob Dobbs: The Android meme is an eschatological environment.
[1:35:13] Bob Dobbs: It is the mystery body.
[1:35:14] Bob Dobbs: They're interchangeable.
[1:35:16] Bob Dobbs: But there's more than just the mystery body.
[1:35:18] Bob Dobbs: So the Android meme includes all of them,
[1:35:21] Bob Dobbs: right?
[1:35:22] Bob Dobbs: So it's four and five.
[1:35:24] Bob Dobbs: So then I say,
[1:35:25] Bob Dobbs: after saying that android media is the resultant of the interplay,
[1:35:28] Bob Dobbs: violent and ecstatic,
[1:35:29] Bob Dobbs: of the first four bodies,
[1:35:31] Bob Dobbs: I claim this five-body paradigm is a lot more useful or comprehensive when applied to our post-911 scene than Samuel Huntington's clash of civilizations probe.
[1:35:43] Bob Dobbs: And then,
[1:35:45] Bob Dobbs: so now
[1:35:45] Bob Dobbs: I'm offering my paradigm against the Trilateral Commission guy,
[1:35:51] Bob Dobbs: the Bilderberger guy,
[1:35:53] Bob Dobbs: Samuel Huntington.
[1:35:54] Bob Dobbs: Mr.
[1:35:54] Bob Dobbs: Kushner's boy.
[1:35:56] Bob Dobbs: Remember,
[1:35:56] Bob Dobbs: there's a line,
[1:35:59] Bob Dobbs: McLuhan says somewhere,
[1:36:00] Bob Dobbs: that the elite today are the ones who determine what the big patterns are.
[1:36:05] Bob Dobbs: Have you ever seen that quote?
[1:36:09] Cameron McEwen: No,
[1:36:09] Cameron McEwen: but
[1:36:11] Cameron McEwen: I can imagine that.
[1:36:14] Bob Dobbs: It's in some obscure thing.
[1:36:16] Bob Dobbs: It's in my Perfect Pitch newsletter,
[1:36:17] Bob Dobbs: but
[1:36:19] Bob Dobbs: I'll send it to you.
[1:36:20] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[1:36:20] Bob Dobbs: it might be like in some interview around the time he was talking at Etcetera magazine,
[1:36:26] Bob Dobbs: one of those 77 or so,
[1:36:27] Bob Dobbs: 1977.
[1:36:30] Bob Dobbs: But the point is that the big,
[1:36:33] Bob Dobbs: the actual elites are the ones who get to say what the big icon is,
[1:36:38] Bob Dobbs: what the big meaning is,
[1:36:40] Bob Dobbs: and therefore determine the parameters of the word that makes the market.
[1:36:46] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[1:36:46] Cameron McEwen: like you were just reading from Drudge.
[1:36:48] Bob Dobbs: Yes.
[1:36:49] Bob Dobbs: So,
[1:36:52] Bob Dobbs: let's see,
[1:36:52] Bob Dobbs: I said the fifth,
[1:36:53] Bob Dobbs: so the mystery body is what we're still excavating and whose liniments we cannot fully assess yet.
[1:36:58] Bob Dobbs: Now,
[1:36:59] Bob Dobbs: I came up with the fifth body in the late
[1:37:02] Bob Dobbs: 90s. To me,
[1:37:04] Bob Dobbs: iON came forth.
[1:37:06] Bob Dobbs: And I,
[1:37:07] Bob Dobbs: adopting my language,
[1:37:08] Bob Dobbs: said,
[1:37:08] Bob Dobbs: yes,
[1:37:09] Bob Dobbs: we are the mystery body and we're going to make it normal.
[1:37:11] Bob Dobbs: We're going to explain all the mysteries.
[1:37:14] Bob Dobbs: So it has been absorbed.
[1:37:16] Bob Dobbs: It's now an art form.
[1:37:17] Bob Dobbs: It's now knowable.
[1:37:19] Bob Dobbs: And that means we're in the hexadic,
[1:37:22] Bob Dobbs: which the Tiny Note points to.
[1:37:23] Bob Dobbs: You remember at the bottom it says this hex advertisement.
[1:37:27] Bob Dobbs: The whole Tiny Note chart.
[1:37:28] Cameron McEwen: Why does the fifth point beyond itself to the sixth?
[1:37:37] Bob Dobbs: Because
[1:37:39] Bob Dobbs: I was inspired in New York when I did this in 1995 by Carolyn's technology she was there working on,
[1:37:46] Bob Dobbs: which was called
[1:37:47] Bob Dobbs: MIR.
[1:37:48] Bob Dobbs: And it could treat AIDS and all kinds of things.
[1:37:50] Bob Dobbs: It was a breakthrough medical thing.
[1:37:52] Bob Dobbs: But it was not supported in any way,
[1:37:55] Bob Dobbs: so it faded off to the sidelines.
[1:37:58] Bob Dobbs: And then iON came in to bring in new stuff,
[1:38:02] Bob Dobbs: even better than Mir.
[1:38:03] Bob Dobbs: But iON is very good at describing what Mir could do.
[1:38:07] Bob Dobbs: So
[1:38:08] Bob Dobbs: I was inspired.
[1:38:09] Bob Dobbs: I said,
[1:38:09] Bob Dobbs: all that we're doing,
[1:38:11] Bob Dobbs: basically the patriarchy created all this stuff.
[1:38:15] Bob Dobbs: And to me,
[1:38:16] Bob Dobbs: Carolyn represented what...
[1:38:17] Bob Dobbs: quote,
[1:38:17] Bob Dobbs: the feminine could do.
[1:38:19] Bob Dobbs: Not feminism,
[1:38:21] Bob Dobbs: not that literate stuff,
[1:38:23] Bob Dobbs: but she was bringing in the new technologies.
[1:38:27] Bob Dobbs: So
[1:38:28] Bob Dobbs: I imagine that Carolyn was looking back at all that men,
[1:38:33] Bob Dobbs: in quotes,
[1:38:34] Bob Dobbs: did,
[1:38:35] Bob Dobbs: and how she had something better than all that they did.
[1:38:39] Bob Dobbs: So I used to say that
[1:38:40] Bob Dobbs: I was the coolest man,
[1:38:42] Bob Dobbs: last man standing,
[1:38:44] Bob Dobbs: because I could communicate to Carolyn.
[1:38:47] Bob Dobbs: I could explain what we did and say,
[1:38:49] Bob Dobbs: now,
[1:38:49] Bob Dobbs: okay,
[1:38:49] Bob Dobbs: yeah,
[1:38:50] Bob Dobbs: we were all assholes,
[1:38:51] Bob Dobbs: but there were a few things you people need to know,
[1:38:55] Bob Dobbs: you so-called females,
[1:38:57] Bob Dobbs: because you're not females anymore.
[1:38:59] Bob Dobbs: So the chart is a message to whatever is not male.
[1:39:07] Bob Dobbs: You know,
[1:39:08] Bob Dobbs: the
[1:39:09] Bob Dobbs: Baudrillard and them call it the femme fatale or the feminine,
[1:39:14] Bob Dobbs: the feminines,
[1:39:15] Bob Dobbs: what they call it.
[1:39:17] Bob Dobbs: And so that,
[1:39:18] Bob Dobbs: which he said was seduction and was mystery.
[1:39:21] Bob Dobbs: So there's a mystery aspect of the first extension.
[1:39:26] Bob Dobbs: You know,
[1:39:26] Bob Dobbs: in the Bible,
[1:39:27] Bob Dobbs: women are the first extension,
[1:39:28] Bob Dobbs: right?
[1:39:29] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.
[1:39:30] Bob Dobbs: So the new extension takes over,
[1:39:32] Bob Dobbs: the first extension then takes over.
[1:39:35] Bob Dobbs: So that's what the hexadic was.
[1:39:36] Bob Dobbs: It was all about moving beyond regular science because regular science couldn't explain what the MIR device could do.
[1:39:46] Bob Dobbs: It had other things going on that science didn't have.
[1:39:49] Bob Dobbs: Now,
[1:39:49] Bob Dobbs: we've got that up to the yin-yang with our technologies today.
[1:39:53] Bob Dobbs: There's even more of that.
[1:39:55] Bob Dobbs: Science can't understand it.
[1:39:59] Bob Dobbs: That's what inspired the chart.
[1:40:01] Bob Dobbs: All these developments with Zappa,
[1:40:04] Bob Dobbs: McLuhan,
[1:40:05] Bob Dobbs: Mae Brussell,
[1:40:06] Bob Dobbs: and all the people that are featured there as anti-environments,
[1:40:09] Bob Dobbs: ersatz anti-environments to what the direction was of the mistaken patriarchy or the mistaken technological dynamo,
[1:40:17] Bob Dobbs: whatever you want to call it,
[1:40:19] Bob Dobbs: that has experienced a rupture,
[1:40:23] Bob Dobbs: which takes you into the hexadic.
[1:40:24] Bob Dobbs: So that's why at the bottom...
[1:40:26] Bob Dobbs: The chart,
[1:40:27] Bob Dobbs: the Tiny Note chart,
[1:40:28] Bob Dobbs: is an ad for the hexadic.
[1:40:30] Bob Dobbs: So it's the Hex advertisement.
[1:40:33] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.
[1:40:34] Cameron McEwen: Would I be right to think that the chart,
[1:40:41] Cameron McEwen: as it gets down towards the bottom,
[1:40:44] Cameron McEwen: is like getting towards the flame of a Bunsen burner,
[1:40:50] Cameron McEwen: and the
[1:40:51] Cameron McEwen: Bunsen burner is vaporizing the chart?
[1:40:56] Cameron McEwen: The chart,
[1:41:00] Cameron McEwen: as it's being vaporized,
[1:41:02] Cameron McEwen: is being expressed in a new way to a new recipient.
[1:41:10] Cameron McEwen: And this new way,
[1:41:12] Cameron McEwen: a new recipient,
[1:41:13] Cameron McEwen: is the sixth body.
[1:41:15] Bob Dobbs: Right.
[1:41:16] Bob Dobbs: And that's why the quadrants are subatomic particles.
[1:41:22] Bob Dobbs: They have hardly any lifespan.
[1:41:24] Bob Dobbs: They're just instances.
[1:41:25] Bob Dobbs: quadrillionth of a second kind of thing that's how quick the late the last stages are before you move into this new uh even stranger situation so yeah the burning up of it applies it's melting in your hands as you look at the chart just
[1:41:43] Cameron McEwen: like a page of Finnegans Wake is yes so there we are okay so the end there you have it you know after
[1:41:55] Bob Dobbs: You ever seen me,
[1:41:58] Bob Dobbs: the Canadian Embassy consulate,
[1:42:01] Bob Dobbs: they had a lecture series in New York,
[1:42:03] Bob Dobbs: late 90s,
[1:42:05] Bob Dobbs: and it opened with Tom Wolfe in February 1999.
[1:42:09] Cameron McEwen: You ever seen that?
[1:42:09] Bob Dobbs: You've seen that?
[1:42:10] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[1:42:10] Cameron McEwen: I've often complimented you.
[1:42:13] Bob Dobbs: On what I said.
[1:42:13] Cameron McEwen: And how you tried to straighten them out.
[1:42:17] Bob Dobbs: At the end of it,
[1:42:17] Bob Dobbs: he goes,
[1:42:18] Bob Dobbs: there you have it.
[1:42:19] Bob Dobbs: That's what I was just quoting.
[1:42:20] Cameron McEwen: That's right.
[1:42:20] Bob Dobbs: There you have it.
[1:42:22] Cameron McEwen: Because he didn't have any other response.
[1:42:25] Bob Dobbs: No,
[1:42:25] Bob Dobbs: he didn't know.
[1:42:26] Bob Dobbs: He was stunned.
[1:42:28] Bob Dobbs: He'd never met a McLuhanite who knew what he was talking about.
[1:42:32] Cameron McEwen: Correct.
[1:42:33] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[1:42:37] Bob Dobbs: So here we have this great statement about the five bodies.
[1:42:41] Bob Dobbs: And then I go into Samuel Huntington.
[1:42:43] Bob Dobbs: You know who he is,
[1:42:44] Bob Dobbs: eh?
[1:42:44] Bob Dobbs: You've heard of him?
[1:42:46] Cameron McEwen: Oh,
[1:42:46] Cameron McEwen: absolutely.
[1:42:47] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.
[1:42:47] Bob Dobbs: So he coined,
[1:42:49] Bob Dobbs: he's a part of the elite who determines the definitions of where we're at.
[1:42:53] Bob Dobbs: The clash of civilizations,
[1:42:54] Bob Dobbs: right?
[1:42:55] Bob Dobbs: Gutenberg stuff.
[1:42:57] Bob Dobbs: Samuel Huntington was the establishment's,
[1:42:59] Bob Dobbs: in brackets,
[1:43:00] Bob Dobbs: trilateral commission's academic.
[1:43:03] Bob Dobbs: He was the man who made up this simple little pattern.
[1:43:05] Bob Dobbs: Quote,
[1:43:05] Bob Dobbs: today we have a clash of civilizations.
[1:43:08] Bob Dobbs: This actually kept the frame in the war mode.
[1:43:11] Bob Dobbs: He didn't define it as more than war.
[1:43:13] Bob Dobbs: It is more than war.
[1:43:14] Bob Dobbs: And that's where McLuhan teases out all the levels of World War III.
[1:43:18] Bob Dobbs: It's not just a clash of civilizations.
[1:43:21] Bob Dobbs: That's why I'm putting Huntington down.
[1:43:23] Bob Dobbs: He's the establishment sociologist,
[1:43:25] Bob Dobbs: strictly 19th century.
[1:43:26] Bob Dobbs: The last time there was an establishment for the chemical body was the
[1:43:32] Bob Dobbs: 19th century.
[1:43:36] Bob Dobbs: So that's a good statement.
[1:43:38] Bob Dobbs: And then I say,
[1:43:40] Bob Dobbs: in the past 30 years,
[1:43:41] Bob Dobbs: the media landscapes have slowly transformed into additional miniaturized bodies attached to our original body,
[1:43:47] Bob Dobbs: like barnacles.
[1:43:48] Bob Dobbs: And I'm thinking of
[1:43:49] Bob Dobbs: James Joyce's wife as Nora Barnacle,
[1:43:52] Bob Dobbs: right?
[1:43:53] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[1:43:53] Cameron McEwen: yeah,
[1:43:53] Cameron McEwen: yeah.
[1:43:54] Bob Dobbs: The original body was made by,
[1:43:56] Bob Dobbs: quote,
[1:43:56] Bob Dobbs: first nature,
[1:43:58] Bob Dobbs: unquote.
[1:43:59] Bob Dobbs: Our descriptions of that first nature constitute our human-made second nature.
[1:44:03] Bob Dobbs: So our language about first nature is the beginning of second nature,
[1:44:08] Bob Dobbs: which is human-made,
[1:44:09] Bob Dobbs: not whoever made first nature or whatever made it.
[1:44:15] Cameron McEwen: But it's important to point out that made,
[1:44:18] Cameron McEwen: the word made,
[1:44:20] Cameron McEwen: is completely different.
[1:44:23] Cameron McEwen: there between first and second nature.
[1:44:26] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[1:44:27] Cameron McEwen: Right.
[1:44:27] Cameron McEwen: Made is like for first nature that's like creation or evolution.
[1:44:34] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[1:44:34] Cameron McEwen: Whereas in the second it's transformation.
[1:44:39] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[1:44:39] Bob Dobbs: It's and it's human made.
[1:44:41] Cameron McEwen: Yes.
[1:44:42] Cameron McEwen: But human again not as chemical body.
[1:44:47] Bob Dobbs: Right.
[1:44:49] Bob Dobbs: Some claim to be getting past our second nature descriptions of first nature and are subsequently witnessing first nature.
[1:44:57] Bob Dobbs: Others accept the organisms created by our second nature descriptions and consider them to be improvements on our first nature.
[1:45:04] Bob Dobbs: I say we don't yet completely know what first nature is,
[1:45:08] Bob Dobbs: so I wouldn't say we no longer have first nature bodies.
[1:45:12] Bob Dobbs: But our chemical body,
[1:45:13] Bob Dobbs: the dominant second nature description of our first nature body,
[1:45:17] Bob Dobbs: is presently subsumed by the TV and chip bodies,
[1:45:19] Bob Dobbs: our invisible barnacles.
[1:45:22] Bob Dobbs: Now,
[1:45:22] Bob Dobbs: once ions showed up,
[1:45:25] Bob Dobbs: I've,
[1:45:25] Bob Dobbs: quote,
[1:45:25] Bob Dobbs: learned from iON that there's no difference between first and second nature.
[1:45:31] Bob Dobbs: Ions are total McLuhanite,
[1:45:32] Bob Dobbs: you know.
[1:45:33] Bob Dobbs: Nature is human-made or is a technology.
[1:45:38] Cameron McEwen: Sure,
[1:45:38] Cameron McEwen: there is.
[1:45:40] Cameron McEwen: According to
[1:45:41] Cameron McEwen: McLuhan, first nature was based on ignorance.
[1:45:48] Cameron McEwen: And that when it became understood that art and nature were complementary,
[1:45:56] Cameron McEwen: then there was no first nature.
[1:45:58] Bob Dobbs: Right.
[1:46:00] Bob Dobbs: Okay.
[1:46:01] Bob Dobbs: So that seems to be what I am saying.
[1:46:03] Bob Dobbs: Because I am saying the tech body,
[1:46:05] Bob Dobbs: which is the pinnacle of the second nature,
[1:46:08] Bob Dobbs: is as viable as whatever you think original nature is,
[1:46:13] Bob Dobbs: the original being.
[1:46:17] Bob Dobbs: So the TV,
[1:46:18] Bob Dobbs: subsumed by the TV and chip bodies,
[1:46:20] Bob Dobbs: are invisible barnacles.
[1:46:22] Bob Dobbs: As I wrote above,
[1:46:23] Bob Dobbs: the holeopathic cliché probe became the digital meme.
[1:46:27] Bob Dobbs: Now,
[1:46:28] Bob Dobbs: that's where
[1:46:30] Bob Dobbs: I try to go past
[1:46:32] Bob Dobbs: McLuhan talking about the verbal module that Joyce and Pound did.
[1:46:38] Bob Dobbs: He talks about that From Cliché to Archetype.
[1:46:41] Bob Dobbs: So you have the verbal module,
[1:46:42] Bob Dobbs: which is also a cliché probe.
[1:46:44] Bob Dobbs: Then you have this environmental cliché probe.
[1:46:47] Bob Dobbs: Which then gets etherealized,
[1:46:49] Bob Dobbs: or whatever you want to call this,
[1:46:51] Bob Dobbs: refinement,
[1:46:52] Bob Dobbs: into the digital meme,
[1:46:54] Bob Dobbs: right?
[1:46:54] Bob Dobbs: So I'm trying to make a distinction there.
[1:46:59] Bob Dobbs: And the meme took over.
[1:47:02] Bob Dobbs: People talk about memes today,
[1:47:05] Bob Dobbs: and 10,
[1:47:05] Bob Dobbs: 15 years ago,
[1:47:06] Bob Dobbs: they never heard of the word.
[1:47:07] Bob Dobbs: But it became the word of choice.
[1:47:09] Bob Dobbs: So my poetry picked the right name for where we were that would evoke.
[1:47:16] Bob Dobbs: the popularization of the word meme.
[1:47:20] Cameron McEwen: So don't these phrases here,
[1:47:22] Cameron McEwen: Bob,
[1:47:24] Cameron McEwen: need to be explained or amplified in terms of the Android meme and the
[1:47:35] Cameron McEwen: AP?
[1:47:36] Cameron McEwen: When you say holeopathic cliche probe and then you say digital meme,
[1:47:42] Cameron McEwen: aren't these kind of reverberations?
[1:47:46] Cameron McEwen: of the
[1:47:48] Cameron McEwen: Android meme and the AP?
[1:47:50] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[1:47:50] Bob Dobbs: that's hendiadys,
[1:47:52] Bob Dobbs: one by means of two.
[1:47:53] Cameron McEwen: Uh-huh.
[1:47:56] Bob Dobbs: And if you look at this massive essay I did on the American classroom without walls and how I go through all the major postmodern French writers and I show quotes from them and they're replaying quotes from McLuhan.
[1:48:11] Bob Dobbs: So I refer to all these quotes that McLuhan said at first.
[1:48:15] Bob Dobbs: And there's like five sections of it.
[1:48:19] Bob Dobbs: Then the sixth section,
[1:48:21] Bob Dobbs: and the fifth section is all about the Android meme,
[1:48:24] Bob Dobbs: and then the sixth section,
[1:48:26] Bob Dobbs: I called it Act 6,
[1:48:28] Bob Dobbs: has one sentence.
[1:48:29] Bob Dobbs: It says,
[1:48:30] Bob Dobbs: you're looking at it.
[1:48:32] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.
[1:48:33] Bob Dobbs: So that's what
[1:48:35] Bob Dobbs: I think of when you ask me about the hendiadys of digital meme versus Android meme versus Ely
[1:48:42] Bob Dobbs: Cliché Probe.
[1:48:43] Bob Dobbs: It's hard to make distinctions there.
[1:48:47] Bob Dobbs: But I am going to try to explain that.
[1:48:49] Bob Dobbs: I think that's what's coming here.
[1:48:51] Bob Dobbs: I'll try to tease apart some distinctions here.
[1:48:57] Bob Dobbs: So as I wrote above,
[1:48:58] Bob Dobbs: the holeopathic cliché probe became a digital meme.
[1:49:01] Bob Dobbs: Then I say in blue,
[1:49:03] Bob Dobbs: it's leading into the meme and then the Android synthetic meme.
[1:49:08] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[1:49:08] Cameron McEwen: there you go.
[1:49:09] Cameron McEwen: Look at that.
[1:49:10] Bob Dobbs: See,
[1:49:11] Bob Dobbs: I'm doing it.
[1:49:12] Bob Dobbs: Called both and.
[1:49:14] Bob Dobbs: It's the and part,
[1:49:16] Bob Dobbs: right?
[1:49:17] Bob Dobbs: You can't stop.
[1:49:18] Bob Dobbs: Anything you say is not adequate.
[1:49:20] Bob Dobbs: So you got to keep saying something.
[1:49:22] Cameron McEwen: That's the quantum.
[1:49:24] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[1:49:25] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[1:49:25] Bob Dobbs: the eternity of the quantum.
[1:49:28] Bob Dobbs: Derek Kirchhoff provides a useful description of the fusion aspect of a small portion of the second phase of the Android meme.
[1:49:36] Bob Dobbs: The second phase,
[1:49:37] Bob Dobbs: small portion,
[1:49:38] Bob Dobbs: is time,
[1:49:38] Bob Dobbs: space,
[1:49:39] Bob Dobbs: and the self.
[1:49:40] Bob Dobbs: They're puny.
[1:49:41] Bob Dobbs: basically the chemical body world.
[1:49:44] Bob Dobbs: So,
[1:49:44] Bob Dobbs: de Kerckhove provides a useful description of the fusion aspect of a small portion of the second phase of the Android meme.
[1:49:51] Bob Dobbs: So,
[1:49:51] Bob Dobbs: he's not covering the whole Android meme.
[1:49:53] Bob Dobbs: He's just doing a small part of it.
[1:49:55] Bob Dobbs: So,
[1:49:58] Bob Dobbs: do I have a de Kerckhove essay at the bottom or something?
[1:50:01] Bob Dobbs: I don't know what I have.
[1:50:09] Bob Dobbs: Do I have to...
[1:50:10] Cameron McEwen: You have a link there.
[1:50:11] Cameron McEwen: clicked on it.
[1:50:12] Cameron McEwen: Let's see.
[1:50:13] Cameron McEwen: Three looming figures of the digital transformation by the Kirchhoff.
[1:50:19] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[1:50:19] Bob Dobbs: so I'm talking about that essay.
[1:50:21] Bob Dobbs: Okay.
[1:50:24] Bob Dobbs: So
[1:50:24] Bob Dobbs: I'm talking about the inadequateness of it.
[1:50:29] Cameron McEwen: So if memory serves,
[1:50:32] Cameron McEwen: he took some of this off the internet.
[1:50:36] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[1:50:38] Cameron McEwen: that's where he got that quote wrong.
[1:50:41] Bob Dobbs: Right?
[1:50:42] Bob Dobbs: He got that quote wrong about McLuhan predicting the computer world.
[1:50:47] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.
[1:50:49] Bob Dobbs: Okay,
[1:50:51] Bob Dobbs: so I say,
[1:50:52] Bob Dobbs: de Kerckhove makes much significance out of the cancellation of time,
[1:50:56] Bob Dobbs: space,
[1:50:56] Bob Dobbs: and the self.
[1:50:58] Bob Dobbs: But if you read my cloning ESP essay,
[1:51:01] Bob Dobbs: time gets canceled out in the
[1:51:02] Bob Dobbs: 19th century and space in the early part of the 20th century.
[1:51:06] Bob Dobbs: He has them getting wiped out by the digital world 2.0.
[1:51:10] Bob Dobbs: or the second phase of the Android meme i'm citing derek because he helps people see some basic see some basics but it's actually quite obsolete and it is so um i'm correcting uh de Kerckhove there time
[1:51:26] Bob Dobbs: space in itself to write about that at this late stage is silly right you got to talk about something else you got to talk about the five bodies or the the Android meme itself or the cloning esp eat.
[1:51:40] Bob Dobbs: This is not useful to talk about time-space in the self.
[1:51:45] Bob Dobbs: Maybe for an 18-year-old,
[1:51:46] Bob Dobbs: so they can get a grip on reality with some concepts,
[1:51:49] Bob Dobbs: but you've got to massage them out of that eventually.
[1:51:53] Bob Dobbs: So then I say,
[1:51:54] Bob Dobbs: however,
[1:51:54] Bob Dobbs: other portions of the Android meme underwent massive decentralization.
[1:51:58] Bob Dobbs: So I'm talking about other portions that would be the other bodies,
[1:52:04] Bob Dobbs: more than time-space in the self.
[1:52:06] Bob Dobbs: So other portions of the Android meme underwent massive decentralization and splayed effects,
[1:52:12] Bob Dobbs: you know,
[1:52:13] Bob Dobbs: destroyed,
[1:52:13] Bob Dobbs: blown up,
[1:52:15] Bob Dobbs: scattered,
[1:52:16] Bob Dobbs: of this phase two of the Android meme,
[1:52:18] Bob Dobbs: AM,
[1:52:19] Bob Dobbs: which constituted a huge replay of phase one of the Android meme as content.
[1:52:25] Bob Dobbs: holeopathic cliche probes.
[1:52:28] Bob Dobbs: You'll see my memoir,
[1:52:28] Bob Dobbs: Prince Charles,
[1:52:29] Bob Dobbs: written in 1987.
[1:52:31] Bob Dobbs: I explained the phase we were coming into.
[1:52:35] Bob Dobbs: holeopathic cliche probes and that's before the internet,
[1:52:38] Bob Dobbs: but it was predicting the internet but it's the first phase of the internet the co-anesthesia hasn't really kicked in until phase 2 or
[1:52:49] Bob Dobbs: Web 2.0 that is
[1:52:58] Bob Dobbs: The environment where the holeopathic cliché probes are the content okay,
[1:53:03] Bob Dobbs: so in 87
[1:53:05] Bob Dobbs: I didn't have the Android meme idea.
[1:53:08] Bob Dobbs: Well,
[1:53:08] Bob Dobbs: it hadn't happened yet.
[1:53:10] Bob Dobbs: But it did happen as an undercurrent from 1960 to 1990.
[1:53:15] Bob Dobbs: So I'll read that again.
[1:53:16] Bob Dobbs: However,
[1:53:17] Bob Dobbs: other portions of the Android meme underwent massive decentralization and splayed effects of this Phase 2 of the Android meme,
[1:53:22] Bob Dobbs: which constituted a huge replay of Phase 1 of the Android meme as content.
[1:53:27] Bob Dobbs: So basically,
[1:53:28] Bob Dobbs: 1993 to 2003 is Phase 1 of the Android meme.
[1:53:35] Bob Dobbs: Phase 2 comes in with
[1:53:37] Bob Dobbs: MySpace, YouTube,
[1:53:39] Bob Dobbs: Facebook.
[1:53:42] Bob Dobbs: That's the Android meme phase 2 with the
[1:53:47] Bob Dobbs: 1.0 as its content and also analog media,
[1:53:51] Bob Dobbs: the afterimage of analog media.
[1:53:54] Bob Dobbs: So that's me teasing apart the levels,
[1:54:00] Bob Dobbs: the constituents of what we're looking at.
[1:54:03] Bob Dobbs: which is going to end up with the tech body.
[1:54:05] Bob Dobbs: McLuhan anticipated the holeopathic cliche probe with his use of the module,
[1:54:10] Bob Dobbs: quote,
[1:54:11] Bob Dobbs: module.
[1:54:12] Bob Dobbs: Then I say,
[1:54:12] Bob Dobbs: I had to come up with something that is like a meme.
[1:54:15] Bob Dobbs: holeopathic cliche probe,
[1:54:17] Bob Dobbs: no one knows what that means,
[1:54:18] Bob Dobbs: so I had to find old words,
[1:54:19] Bob Dobbs: and I did.
[1:54:21] Bob Dobbs: These two paragraphs explain module,
[1:54:24] Bob Dobbs: and that's the paragraphs coming up.
[1:54:31] Bob Dobbs: So they are from
[1:54:34] Bob Dobbs: Cliché to Archetype,
[1:54:35] Bob Dobbs: 1970,
[1:54:36] Bob Dobbs: page 152 and 155.
[1:54:41] Bob Dobbs: So here,
[1:54:41] Bob Dobbs: note how McLuhan uses the word module.
[1:54:45] Bob Dobbs: In contrast to private awareness,
[1:54:48] Bob Dobbs: social consciousness is a process of scrapping,
[1:54:50] Bob Dobbs: retrieving,
[1:54:51] Bob Dobbs: and probing.
[1:54:52] Bob Dobbs: So everybody is acting out the tetrad or quadrophrenia,
[1:54:56] Bob Dobbs: right?
[1:54:57] Bob Dobbs: We're scrapping,
[1:54:58] Bob Dobbs: retrieving,
[1:54:58] Bob Dobbs: and probing,
[1:54:59] Bob Dobbs: and extending.
[1:55:00] Bob Dobbs: The emphasis for the most part is upon retrieval and the accumulation of vast residues.
[1:55:05] Bob Dobbs: That would be the archives,
[1:55:08] Bob Dobbs: the mini-states,
[1:55:10] Bob Dobbs: right?
[1:55:10] Bob Dobbs: The accumulation of vast residues.
[1:55:14] Bob Dobbs: With the development in the 19th century of many new technologies...
[1:55:16] Bob Dobbs: Are you there?
[1:55:18] Cameron McEwen: Yes,
[1:55:18] Cameron McEwen: sir.
[1:55:18] Cameron McEwen: I'm following along.
[1:55:20] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[1:55:20] Bob Dobbs: With the development in the 19th century of many new technologies,
[1:55:24] Bob Dobbs: or clichés,
[1:55:24] Bob Dobbs: because all technologies are clichés by the late date,
[1:55:28] Bob Dobbs: especially hardware.
[1:55:30] Bob Dobbs: are cliches.
[1:55:33] Cameron McEwen: They're even cliches when they begin.
[1:55:36] Cameron McEwen: All technologies are shortcuts,
[1:55:39] Cameron McEwen: and a shortcut is a cliche.
[1:55:41] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[1:55:42] Bob Dobbs: and that's the meaning From Cliché to Archetype.
[1:55:45] Bob Dobbs: So I'm trying to point that out by highlighting how McLuhan uses technologies as cliches.
[1:55:54] Bob Dobbs: With the development of the 19th century of many new technologies,
[1:55:56] Bob Dobbs: cliches...
[1:55:58] Bob Dobbs: Because remember,
[1:55:59] Bob Dobbs: old archetype is new cliché.
[1:56:02] Bob Dobbs: New archetype is old cliché.
[1:56:04] Bob Dobbs: That's on the flap of the hardcover version of cliché to archetype.
[1:56:11] Bob Dobbs: You ever seen that flap?
[1:56:14] Bob Dobbs: Well,
[1:56:15] Cameron McEwen: I have it.
[1:56:17] Cameron McEwen: Whether I took note of it is another question.
[1:56:20] Bob Dobbs: Yes,
[1:56:21] Bob Dobbs: well,
[1:56:21] Bob Dobbs: I took note of it,
[1:56:22] Bob Dobbs: and it's important.
[1:56:23] Bob Dobbs: With the development in the 19th century of many new technologies,
[1:56:27] Bob Dobbs: clichés,
[1:56:28] Bob Dobbs: The supremacy of unified print consciousness gave way to multi-consciousness,
[1:56:33] Bob Dobbs: early term for quadrophrenia.
[1:56:36] Bob Dobbs: There was no garbage heap,
[1:56:38] Bob Dobbs: no midden heap.
[1:56:40] Bob Dobbs: unconscious large enough,
[1:56:42] Bob Dobbs: that's interesting what the frame is here,
[1:56:45] Bob Dobbs: there is no unconscious large enough to contain all the materials generated by the breakdown of so much probing and environing.
[1:56:53] Bob Dobbs: So that's me getting into the scapes and the archives of analog media,
[1:57:01] Bob Dobbs: the garbage heap of each one of them,
[1:57:03] Bob Dobbs: the midden heaps.
[1:57:05] Bob Dobbs: But there is this ongoing both and of the...
[1:57:10] Bob Dobbs: present that is not containing things but making you have a hard time getting your head around it right there was no the new environment's always a new unconscious so there was no more unconscious large
[1:57:28] Bob Dobbs: enough to contain all the materials generated by the breakdown of so much probing and environing and so that's why in playboy in 69 he talks about the content in italics
[1:57:39] Bob Dobbs: is the new ground,
[1:57:40] Bob Dobbs: and then he has on page 11 of Take Today that man is both figure and ground.
[1:57:46] Bob Dobbs: That's what we're getting at.
[1:57:48] Bob Dobbs: This starts to get to the anthropomorphic.
[1:57:50] Bob Dobbs: What is the unconscious large enough?
[1:57:53] Bob Dobbs: Well,
[1:57:53] Bob Dobbs: just claiming you're a human,
[1:57:56] Bob Dobbs: or something that's not the environment,
[1:57:59] Bob Dobbs: right?
[1:57:59] Bob Dobbs: You're something that's not the environment.
[1:58:01] Bob Dobbs: Not sure what you're made up of anymore,
[1:58:03] Bob Dobbs: but you still are trying to avoid the...
[1:58:08] Bob Dobbs: merger and loss of one's consciousness.
[1:58:12] Bob Dobbs: That's another big thing here.
[1:58:14] Bob Dobbs: And,
[1:58:14] Bob Dobbs: you know,
[1:58:14] Bob Dobbs: in Take Today,
[1:58:15] Bob Dobbs: he ends the book by saying,
[1:58:16] Bob Dobbs: the recently achieved forms of consciousness,
[1:58:18] Bob Dobbs: what are they?
[1:58:19] Bob Dobbs: What are the recently achieved forms of consciousness?
[1:58:21] Bob Dobbs: And I asked Barry Nevitt,
[1:58:22] Bob Dobbs: and he said,
[1:58:23] Bob Dobbs: Finnegans Wake.
[1:58:25] Bob Dobbs: So Finnegans Wake is an unconscious large enough.
[1:58:28] Bob Dobbs: There was no unconscious large enough to contain all the materials generated by the breakdown of so much probing and environing.
[1:58:35] Bob Dobbs: That's why McLuhan says elsewhere in this book,
[1:58:38] Bob Dobbs: Cliché to Archetype,
[1:58:39] Bob Dobbs: creativity is a vast cliché.
[1:58:43] Bob Dobbs: A lot of education,
[1:58:44] Bob Dobbs: the ideal is to help kids become creative.
[1:58:47] Bob Dobbs: Well,
[1:58:47] Bob Dobbs: you're going to make them clichés.
[1:58:49] Bob Dobbs: We need a new kind of creativity to hold up as a model or a goal of an image of where our faith is taking us.
[1:59:01] Cameron McEwen: But meanwhile,
[1:59:01] Cameron McEwen: it's happening.
[1:59:02] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[1:59:03] Bob Dobbs: it's already happening.
[1:59:05] Bob Dobbs: It's a done deal.
[1:59:06] Bob Dobbs: No matter what we come up with,
[1:59:07] Bob Dobbs: it's happened.
[1:59:10] Bob Dobbs: Philosophy and management alike,
[1:59:12] Bob Dobbs: that's why science fiction's obsolete.
[1:59:14] Bob Dobbs: Hollywood's obsolete,
[1:59:15] Bob Dobbs: all their monster movies.
[1:59:17] Bob Dobbs: Philosophy and management alike,
[1:59:20] Bob Dobbs: you could say all those movies and all that science fiction is your obituary.
[1:59:25] Bob Dobbs: What did you in?
[1:59:27] Bob Dobbs: And did in the media environment.
[1:59:31] Bob Dobbs: The unconscious today is to visualize the disappearance of.
[1:59:36] Bob Dobbs: What you can imagine was and has now disappeared.
[1:59:39] Bob Dobbs: That's the task.
[1:59:41] Bob Dobbs: Philosophy and management alike have yet to come to terms with the mini-module or the new structure of the electric age.
[1:59:47] Bob Dobbs: See,
[1:59:47] Bob Dobbs: that's very important.
[1:59:49] Bob Dobbs: The mini-state is also a mini-module as it communicates in the TV landscape or in the TV body.
[1:59:56] Bob Dobbs: The familiar ad form of rippling repetition of profiles,
[2:00:00] Bob Dobbs: that's the iconic,
[2:00:01] Bob Dobbs: is an accessible example of the mini-module
[2:00:04] Bob Dobbs: that is found in every electric structure,
[2:00:06] Bob Dobbs: from space capsule to the modes of consciousness.
[2:00:10] Bob Dobbs: Mallarmé and Joyce are masters of this kind of verbal module,
[2:00:13] Bob Dobbs: which is achieved by pushing beyond semantic frontiers.
[2:00:18] Bob Dobbs: So,
[2:00:18] Bob Dobbs: the mini-module that is found in every electric structure,
[2:00:22] Bob Dobbs: I'm making an environment,
[2:00:24] Bob Dobbs: and that's a holeopathic cliché probe,
[2:00:27] Bob Dobbs: right?
[2:00:27] Bob Dobbs: The environment's a mini-module.
[2:00:29] Bob Dobbs: The global theater,
[2:00:29] Bob Dobbs: the Android Meme a mini-module.
[2:00:31] Bob Dobbs: We are so,
[2:00:32] Bob Dobbs: quote,
[2:00:32] Bob Dobbs: tiny in it.
[2:00:36] Bob Dobbs: We don't have the parameters of our chemical body.
[2:00:42] Cameron McEwen: Is a mini-module escape?
[2:00:45] Bob Dobbs: Yep.
[2:00:46] Bob Dobbs: The mini-state has become a mini-module.
[2:00:53] Bob Dobbs: In the language of the TV and chip bodies.
[2:00:58] Bob Dobbs: That's PR.
[2:00:59] Bob Dobbs: That's communicating your brand,
[2:01:03] Bob Dobbs: your business,
[2:01:03] Bob Dobbs: your environment,
[2:01:04] Bob Dobbs: your...
[2:01:05] Bob Dobbs: religion,
[2:01:06] Bob Dobbs: your mythic stage is my term for it,
[2:01:09] Bob Dobbs: to other mythic stages.
[2:01:10] Bob Dobbs: That's the endless embattlement of the many states against each other,
[2:01:16] Bob Dobbs: and they are represented by the iconic mini-module.
[2:01:20] Bob Dobbs: So,
[2:01:21] Bob Dobbs: subatomic quadrants.
[2:01:24] Cameron McEwen: What I hear you doing here is,
[2:01:28] Cameron McEwen: at least on one level,
[2:01:29] Cameron McEwen: is making a commentary.
[2:01:34] Cameron McEwen: on your reading of
[2:01:37] Cameron McEwen: Finnegans Wake.
[2:01:38] Bob Dobbs: Yes.
[2:01:39] Bob Dobbs: Well,
[2:01:39] Bob Dobbs: that's why the Tiny Note,
[2:01:41] Bob Dobbs: you see,
[2:01:41] Bob Dobbs: there's the other chart,
[2:01:42] Bob Dobbs: I call it the big,
[2:01:47] Bob Dobbs: I forget what I call it,
[2:01:48] Bob Dobbs: Bob's Formula Chart.
[2:01:50] Bob Dobbs: And it's from 1750 to 2020.
[2:01:54] Bob Dobbs: And at the top,
[2:01:55] Bob Dobbs: it has the five members of the Finnegans Wake.
[2:01:57] Bob Dobbs: And ALP is the hidden ground on the left.
[2:02:00] Bob Dobbs: And HC is the figures,
[2:02:01] Bob Dobbs: the bureaucratic figures of organizing society,
[2:02:04] Bob Dobbs: the patriarchy.
[2:02:07] Bob Dobbs: is under HCE,
[2:02:08] Bob Dobbs: and then the three children are the environmental effects and probes.
[2:02:12] Bob Dobbs: So
[2:02:13] Bob Dobbs: Finnegans Wake is the framework for the big chart.
[2:02:17] Bob Dobbs: And then you look at one little lower level of the big chart,
[2:02:21] Bob Dobbs: the formula chart,
[2:02:22] Bob Dobbs: and you pull it out,
[2:02:23] Bob Dobbs: and that's my Tiny Note chart.
[2:02:25] Bob Dobbs: It comes out of the big chart.
[2:02:27] Bob Dobbs: So yeah,
[2:02:28] Bob Dobbs: Finnegans Wake is the ground of this,
[2:02:30] Cameron McEwen: the ground of now.
[2:02:37] Cameron McEwen: But relating to that ground has a kind of grammar.
[2:02:41] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[2:02:41] Cameron McEwen: Right?
[2:02:42] Cameron McEwen: And it's plain from how well you read the wake that there's a language there that needs to be acclimatized.
[2:02:59] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[2:03:00] Cameron McEwen: And when you kind of do a retrospect,
[2:03:06] Cameron McEwen: on your acclimatization to the wake,
[2:03:09] Cameron McEwen: then what comes out is something like this pamphlet as a grammar.
[2:03:16] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[2:03:17] Bob Dobbs: yeah,
[2:03:17] Bob Dobbs: I'm doing a science here,
[2:03:21] Bob Dobbs: a grammar,
[2:03:22] Bob Dobbs: the grammar part of science,
[2:03:23] Bob Dobbs: or the original point of defining what's happening,
[2:03:27] Bob Dobbs: but it's not a Gutenbergian definition.
[2:03:31] Bob Dobbs: I do it,
[2:03:32] Bob Dobbs: and then I go on the radio and act it out.
[2:03:35] Bob Dobbs: or do another version of it.
[2:03:37] Cameron McEwen: And where do you see this coming from?
[2:03:41] Cameron McEwen: Do you see yourself as a student?
[2:03:43] Cameron McEwen: Do you see yourself as a receiver?
[2:03:46] Cameron McEwen: Do you see it as creative activity?
[2:03:52] Cameron McEwen: How do you imagine this to yourself when you take a second to look back?
[2:04:01] Bob Dobbs: Well,
[2:04:02] Bob Dobbs: in the...
[2:04:02] Bob Dobbs: In the 80s on CKLN,
[2:04:04] Bob Dobbs: when people asked me,
[2:04:04] Bob Dobbs: what was I,
[2:04:05] Bob Dobbs: who was I,
[2:04:06] Bob Dobbs: when am I,
[2:04:07] Bob Dobbs: I said,
[2:04:07] Bob Dobbs: I'm an environment.
[2:04:09] Bob Dobbs: So they started off saying,
[2:04:10] Bob Dobbs: I was an environment.
[2:04:12] Bob Dobbs: And then it got refined into quadrophrenia,
[2:04:18] Bob Dobbs: which is,
[2:04:18] Bob Dobbs: you know,
[2:04:19] Bob Dobbs: our basic doubleness,
[2:04:21] Bob Dobbs: which Wyndham Lewis celebrated,
[2:04:23] Bob Dobbs: which then is perverted into schizoid or schizophrenia.
[2:04:27] Bob Dobbs: And then you have the Android meme simulating us.
[2:04:31] Bob Dobbs: Simulating our schizophrenia,
[2:04:32] Bob Dobbs: so there's two schizophrenias.
[2:04:34] Bob Dobbs: They merge,
[2:04:35] Bob Dobbs: so we're all quadrophrenia.
[2:04:37] Bob Dobbs: And it's hard to tell where the boundaries are between you and the Android meme.
[2:04:41] Bob Dobbs: So the Android meme is quadrophrenic too.
[2:04:43] Bob Dobbs: So I always say I'm a quadrophrenic and you are too,
[2:04:47] Bob Dobbs: but I'm a conscious quadrophrenic.
[2:04:49] Bob Dobbs: You need to understand a little bit more how to describe what you are as a quadrophrenic.
[2:04:55] Bob Dobbs: That's what I say to my audience.
[2:04:57] Bob Dobbs: So that's how I answer what I am.
[2:05:01] Bob Dobbs: Then I have on the Tiny Note chart,
[2:05:02] Bob Dobbs: which is autobiographical also,
[2:05:05] Bob Dobbs: I've got categories in there,
[2:05:08] Bob Dobbs: director,
[2:05:08] Bob Dobbs: producer,
[2:05:09] Bob Dobbs: lawyer.
[2:05:09] Bob Dobbs: I have a lot of different categories of chemical body,
[2:05:15] Bob Dobbs: archetypal positioning.
[2:05:18] Bob Dobbs: I include all those.
[2:05:20] Bob Dobbs: So that's how
[2:05:25] Bob Dobbs: I say all kinds of stuff about what I am.
[2:05:31] Bob Dobbs: So that's,
[2:05:32] Bob Dobbs: and so I was acting out.
[2:05:33] Bob Dobbs: Now,
[2:05:33] Bob Dobbs: Theall said that Marshall acted out his time.
[2:05:37] Bob Dobbs: That's a good,
[2:05:37] Bob Dobbs: profound statement.
[2:05:39] Bob Dobbs: He acted out the symptoms of it.
[2:05:41] Bob Dobbs: He always seemed to be ahead of it,
[2:05:42] Bob Dobbs: but he was talking about what we were all going through and what was happening to us,
[2:05:49] Bob Dobbs: but he was just a little ahead,
[2:05:50] Bob Dobbs: so he said it first,
[2:05:52] Bob Dobbs: but he was still subject to the transformations going on.
[2:05:56] Bob Dobbs: So I include myself in that drama,
[2:05:59] Bob Dobbs: the drama of cognition.
[2:06:03] Bob Dobbs: Does that answer your question?
[2:06:05] Bob Dobbs: A little bit.
[2:06:07] Cameron McEwen: A little bit.
[2:06:08] Cameron McEwen: I don't think it's a question that can be answered in a sentence or two.
[2:06:15] Cameron McEwen: All our conversations or your pamphlet are all kind of answers to that.
[2:06:20] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[2:06:20] Bob Dobbs: I've been saying the same thing for so long,
[2:06:23] Bob Dobbs: but I don't get bored with it.
[2:06:26] Bob Dobbs: That's the exciting part about when you have the right language,
[2:06:29] Bob Dobbs: the word remains rejuvenatable in yourself and in your perceptions.
[2:06:35] Bob Dobbs: And you don't mind somebody who's not paying attention to me.
[2:06:38] Bob Dobbs: You just sort of somebody talking after a few weeks.
[2:06:43] Bob Dobbs: Bob just keeps repeating himself is how I'm going to be perceived,
[2:06:45] Bob Dobbs: right?
[2:06:46] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.
[2:06:47] Bob Dobbs: A package awareness.
[2:06:48] Bob Dobbs: I'm just offering a package that,
[2:06:50] Bob Dobbs: of course,
[2:06:51] Bob Dobbs: people are going to get bored with.
[2:06:52] Bob Dobbs: And they thought McLuhan was doing that.
[2:06:54] Bob Dobbs: Becomes boring.
[2:06:56] Bob Dobbs: They miss the liveliness of when you're actually describing reality,
[2:07:01] Bob Dobbs: talking back to something,
[2:07:04] Bob Dobbs: and it's invigorating when you're accurate about it.
[2:07:10] Cameron McEwen: Right.
[2:07:11] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[2:07:12] Bob Dobbs: So that's what I am.
[2:07:13] Bob Dobbs: I'm accurate.
[2:07:15] Bob Dobbs: I'm precise.
[2:07:18] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[2:07:18] Bob Dobbs: I never stopped this.
[2:07:23] Bob Dobbs: So it's great to have someone who's...
[2:07:25] Bob Dobbs: understanding it.
[2:07:28] Bob Dobbs: So I did that,
[2:07:29] Bob Dobbs: that quote from Cliché to Archetype.
[2:07:32] Bob Dobbs: It explains what we've been doing tonight.
[2:07:35] Bob Dobbs: And then
[2:07:35] Bob Dobbs: I say in the blue part,
[2:07:37] Bob Dobbs: philosophy and management alike,
[2:07:41] Bob Dobbs: I'm quoting McLuhan,
[2:07:42] Bob Dobbs: philosophy and management alike have yet to come to terms with the mini-module or the new structure of the electric age,
[2:07:47] Bob Dobbs: which is the image,
[2:07:48] Bob Dobbs: now I add,
[2:07:49] Bob Dobbs: which is the image,
[2:07:50] Bob Dobbs: software patterns that become memes for the millennials and younger.
[2:07:55] Bob Dobbs: Expendable memes.
[2:07:58] Bob Dobbs: I figured this out.
[2:07:59] Bob Dobbs: I said,
[2:07:59] Bob Dobbs: quote,
[2:08:00] Bob Dobbs: wait a minute,
[2:08:01] Bob Dobbs: how do I make holeopathic cliché probe have the same meaning as meme?
[2:08:05] Bob Dobbs: Oh,
[2:08:05] Bob Dobbs: module,
[2:08:05] Bob Dobbs: yeah,
[2:08:06] Bob Dobbs: McLuhan's got that and From Cliché to Archetype.
[2:08:08] Bob Dobbs: I went,
[2:08:09] Bob Dobbs: found it,
[2:08:10] Bob Dobbs: typed it up,
[2:08:11] Bob Dobbs: and wonder if wonders,
[2:08:12] Bob Dobbs: module is McLuhan's term for meme.
[2:08:14] Bob Dobbs: They talk about modules often in present day art,
[2:08:17] Bob Dobbs: and installations are considered modular.
[2:08:21] Bob Dobbs: So,
[2:08:22] Bob Dobbs: he again had the right word.
[2:08:25] Bob Dobbs: He knew the word that was appropriate.
[2:08:26] Bob Dobbs: So then we go to another page,
[2:08:28] Bob Dobbs: page 14,
[2:08:29] Bob Dobbs: where McLuhan says,
[2:08:30] Bob Dobbs: The outer trip has been specialist and western.
[2:08:33] Bob Dobbs: The inner trip has been ecological and oriental.
[2:08:36] Bob Dobbs: Both kinds of trips are cliché probes.
[2:08:39] Bob Dobbs: Each has its own methods and preferences of retrieval from the rag and bone shop of past experience.
[2:08:45] Bob Dobbs: The outer trip prefers to retrieve antiquities or archetypes.
[2:08:49] Bob Dobbs: The inner trip prefers the probing cliché world of the module.
[2:08:53] Bob Dobbs: That's another great...
[2:08:54] Bob Dobbs: Paragraph.
[2:08:56] Bob Dobbs: So you have,
[2:08:58] Bob Dobbs: we were talking about the museums of television and
[2:09:03] Bob Dobbs: Hollywood and all that.
[2:09:04] Bob Dobbs: All these museums,
[2:09:05] Bob Dobbs: as well as our regular environments,
[2:09:07] Bob Dobbs: are cliché museums.
[2:09:09] Bob Dobbs: Museums are warehouses containing antiquities,
[2:09:14] Bob Dobbs: but they're also probes,
[2:09:16] Bob Dobbs: because you can go into them and find some old thing,
[2:09:19] Bob Dobbs: and it'll give you a different experience than the people who saw it in 1939.
[2:09:25] Bob Dobbs: Because you're a different makeup,
[2:09:26] Bob Dobbs: that's different content,
[2:09:28] Bob Dobbs: different user.
[2:09:29] Cameron McEwen: And you can also rearrange the stuff.
[2:09:34] Bob Dobbs: Rearrange,
[2:09:34] Bob Dobbs: right.
[2:09:35] Bob Dobbs: I remember
[2:09:38] Bob Dobbs: I dropped into the center in March 71.
[2:09:41] Bob Dobbs: I remember talking to a clone.
[2:09:43] Bob Dobbs: Trudeau had just gotten married in the first week of March 71.
[2:09:46] Bob Dobbs: So that was a big story because it was a secret or something.
[2:09:51] Bob Dobbs: And...
[2:09:52] Bob Dobbs: So he made a little presentation in St.
[2:09:55] Bob Dobbs: Michael's College one night.
[2:09:57] Bob Dobbs: So he's up there on the podium with all these books laid out,
[2:10:02] Bob Dobbs: you know,
[2:10:03] Bob Dobbs: usually standing pontificating.
[2:10:04] Bob Dobbs: But here he is,
[2:10:06] Bob Dobbs: he's got four or five books open,
[2:10:08] Bob Dobbs: flat on this platform that he's sitting at.
[2:10:12] Bob Dobbs: So I never saw him in that kind of,
[2:10:14] Bob Dobbs: it's a scholarly,
[2:10:15] Bob Dobbs: it's like a monk,
[2:10:16] Bob Dobbs: you know,
[2:10:18] Bob Dobbs: in a library,
[2:10:19] Bob Dobbs: quoting with all his texts.
[2:10:21] Bob Dobbs: But he had a photograph behind him up on the wall,
[2:10:24] Bob Dobbs: and it was the blandest photograph I'd ever seen.
[2:10:27] Bob Dobbs: It was a shot from the Coach House out onto that bland parking lot.
[2:10:33] Bob Dobbs: That's what he had.
[2:10:35] Bob Dobbs: He had a picture of the view from his office,
[2:10:39] Bob Dobbs: or one part of the office.
[2:10:42] Bob Dobbs: So he was telling us,
[2:10:43] Bob Dobbs: I'm sitting here,
[2:10:44] Bob Dobbs: co-anesthetized,
[2:10:46] Bob Dobbs: I'm in the driver's seat,
[2:10:47] Bob Dobbs: I got my texts here,
[2:10:49] Bob Dobbs: which are old antiques.
[2:10:51] Bob Dobbs: And I'm just commenting on what I see out my window,
[2:10:58] Bob Dobbs: which was the photograph of his bland environment.
[2:11:01] Bob Dobbs: So I thought that was pretty neat.
[2:11:03] Bob Dobbs: That's how I interpreted it anyways at the time.
[2:11:06] Bob Dobbs: And then about,
[2:11:09] Bob Dobbs: he had already,
[2:11:10] Bob Dobbs: I didn't know this,
[2:11:12] Bob Dobbs: I don't think,
[2:11:13] Bob Dobbs: until later when I got the archive.
[2:11:15] Bob Dobbs: In the middle of February 71,
[2:11:18] Bob Dobbs: a couple weeks before I showed up there,
[2:11:19] Bob Dobbs: the first of March.
[2:11:20] Bob Dobbs: He had been on the panel with Auden and Bucky Fuller and a bunch of other local media people.
[2:11:27] Bob Dobbs: Have you ever heard that panel?
[2:11:30] Cameron McEwen: I think
[2:11:33] Cameron McEwen: I have.
[2:11:34] Cameron McEwen: Was Mailer part of that?
[2:11:36] Bob Dobbs: No,
[2:11:36] Bob Dobbs: it was W.H.
[2:11:37] Bob Dobbs: Auden,
[2:11:38] Bob Dobbs: Bucky Fuller,
[2:11:40] Bob Dobbs: a couple of media people in Toronto,
[2:11:43] Bob Dobbs: and McLuhan.
[2:11:45] Bob Dobbs: He and Auden got into sort of an argument.
[2:11:49] Bob Dobbs: McLuhan ends up telling Auden he had no clue about what TV's doing,
[2:11:53] Bob Dobbs: and Auden's just bragging that he doesn't have one.
[2:11:58] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[2:11:58] Cameron McEwen: yeah,
[2:11:58] Cameron McEwen: yeah.
[2:11:58] Cameron McEwen: No,
[2:11:58] Cameron McEwen: I know the interview for sure.
[2:12:00] Bob Dobbs: For the dialogue.
[2:12:02] Bob Dobbs: The panel.
[2:12:04] Bob Dobbs: And I think I told you in 72,
[2:12:07] Bob Dobbs: I was in New York City.
[2:12:08] Bob Dobbs: And I found out that Auden lives,
[2:12:11] Bob Dobbs: he had an apartment on
[2:12:13] Bob Dobbs: 8th Street,
[2:12:14] Bob Dobbs: St.
[2:12:14] Bob Dobbs: Mark's Place.
[2:12:15] Bob Dobbs: So
[2:12:16] Bob Dobbs: I knocked on the door and a guy answered.
[2:12:19] Bob Dobbs: And he invited me up and he said Auden was back in London.
[2:12:24] Bob Dobbs: I guess he went there for the summer or something.
[2:12:26] Bob Dobbs: And so this guy was subletting or he was a friend.
[2:12:28] Bob Dobbs: So we just got talking.
[2:12:29] Bob Dobbs: Eventually,
[2:12:30] Bob Dobbs: of course,
[2:12:30] Bob Dobbs: I brought up McLuhan.
[2:12:32] Bob Dobbs: And he said,
[2:12:33] Bob Dobbs: oh,
[2:12:34] Bob Dobbs: I was here when Auden came back.
[2:12:36] Bob Dobbs: He was on a panel with McLuhan.
[2:12:38] Bob Dobbs: And he walked in the house or the apartment and he said,
[2:12:41] Bob Dobbs: I won.
[2:12:45] Bob Dobbs: So me,
[2:12:46] Bob Dobbs: as the McLuhan archivist,
[2:12:48] Bob Dobbs: no one would know that.
[2:12:49] Bob Dobbs: No one would ever find that out.
[2:12:51] Bob Dobbs: I find out where Auden is.
[2:12:53] Bob Dobbs: Go see if he's approachable.
[2:12:55] Bob Dobbs: And then I get this really more important revealing thing that the egomaniac Auden,
[2:13:00] Bob Dobbs: who did lousy in it,
[2:13:02] Bob Dobbs: he thinks he won because he got people laughing in the audience.
[2:13:08] Bob Dobbs: You can hear it on the tape.
[2:13:09] Bob Dobbs: He got more laughs than McLuhan.
[2:13:11] Bob Dobbs: So he thought that meant he won.
[2:13:13] Bob Dobbs: Maybe true.
[2:13:15] Bob Dobbs: Maybe if you get the laughs,
[2:13:16] Bob Dobbs: you won.
[2:13:17] Bob Dobbs: Anyways,
[2:13:18] Bob Dobbs: I didn't tell you that story before,
[2:13:19] Bob Dobbs: right?
[2:13:20] Cameron McEwen: No.
[2:13:21] Bob Dobbs: Good.
[2:13:22] Bob Dobbs: So we're talking about Auden and,
[2:13:26] Bob Dobbs: oh yeah,
[2:13:26] Bob Dobbs: so I missed the panel by two weeks.
[2:13:29] Bob Dobbs: I didn't know that until years later when I was in the CBC archives and found it in the late 70s.
[2:13:34] Bob Dobbs: So what are we doing now?
[2:13:44] Bob Dobbs: So the outer trip and the inner trip,
[2:13:49] Bob Dobbs: antiquities versus a cliche world.
[2:13:54] Bob Dobbs: That's a very important quote there,
[2:13:56] Bob Dobbs: and it's my way of getting into the tech body.
[2:14:01] Bob Dobbs: So we're talking about a module,
[2:14:04] Bob Dobbs: holeopathic cliché probes,
[2:14:04] Bob Dobbs: the cliche probes,
[2:14:06] Bob Dobbs: archetypes,
[2:14:08] Bob Dobbs: and the fact that these two trips are content.
[2:14:18] Bob Dobbs: Outer trip is content.
[2:14:21] Bob Dobbs: Inner trip is content.
[2:14:23] Bob Dobbs: Right?
[2:14:24] Bob Dobbs: They're cliche probes.
[2:14:29] Bob Dobbs: So then...
[2:14:32] Cameron McEwen: So do you use the word probe simply as kind of another word for action?
[2:14:42] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[2:14:43] Bob Dobbs: For me,
[2:14:43] Bob Dobbs: it's action.
[2:14:45] Bob Dobbs: It's still showing up,
[2:14:47] Bob Dobbs: still performing.
[2:14:52] Bob Dobbs: Where did I read that?
[2:14:57] Bob Dobbs: Wyndham Lewis.
[2:14:59] Bob Dobbs: He said he was reading this old book by him,
[2:15:01] Bob Dobbs: and he said,
[2:15:02] Bob Dobbs: I'm a performer.
[2:15:05] Bob Dobbs: See?
[2:15:06] Bob Dobbs: Not just a painter,
[2:15:07] Bob Dobbs: writer,
[2:15:07] Bob Dobbs: whatever.
[2:15:07] Bob Dobbs: He's a performer.
[2:15:09] Bob Dobbs: Which,
[2:15:09] Bob Dobbs: of course,
[2:15:10] Bob Dobbs: the electric media makes everybody a performer.
[2:15:13] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.
[2:15:13] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.
[2:15:14] Bob Dobbs: Everybody an actor.
[2:15:16] Bob Dobbs: So,
[2:15:17] Bob Dobbs: yeah,
[2:15:18] Bob Dobbs: probing is maybe attempting to be conscious.
[2:15:24] Bob Dobbs: performer.
[2:15:25] Bob Dobbs: But conscious doesn't necessarily mean the chemical body,
[2:15:30] Bob Dobbs: brain consciousness,
[2:15:32] Bob Dobbs: that kind of awareness that the new age sells.
[2:15:36] Bob Dobbs: There's a different way to be conscious,
[2:15:39] Bob Dobbs: you know?
[2:15:41] Cameron McEwen: Sure.
[2:15:41] Cameron McEwen: It depends on the new language.
[2:15:44] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[2:15:44] Bob Dobbs: there is.
[2:15:46] Bob Dobbs: So when you know these basic things,
[2:15:50] Bob Dobbs: You see it showing up in pop culture,
[2:15:52] Bob Dobbs: highbrow culture,
[2:15:53] Bob Dobbs: all over the place.
[2:15:54] Bob Dobbs: You see artists,
[2:15:55] Bob Dobbs: managers,
[2:15:56] Bob Dobbs: people trying to express their situation.
[2:15:59] Bob Dobbs: And they're always bumping up against McLuhan and what they're trying to say.
[2:16:05] Bob Dobbs: Like Jack Nicholson.
[2:16:07] Bob Dobbs: I saw an article on him in the early
[2:16:10] Bob Dobbs: 70s. And he said how much he was influenced by McLuhan.
[2:16:14] Bob Dobbs: And here's what he was influenced by.
[2:16:16] Bob Dobbs: He said...
[2:16:17] Bob Dobbs: I read this book,
[2:16:18] Bob Dobbs: it was all about the cliché,
[2:16:20] Bob Dobbs: and I recognized that described me,
[2:16:23] Bob Dobbs: this cliché action,
[2:16:25] Bob Dobbs: that's what acting is.
[2:16:27] Bob Dobbs: And he had this crazy notion,
[2:16:28] Bob Dobbs: you know,
[2:16:29] Bob Dobbs: hyper-subjective interpretation of the word cliché,
[2:16:31] Bob Dobbs: as spelling out what he was.
[2:16:33] Bob Dobbs: And it was a big epiphany.
[2:16:35] Bob Dobbs: It would be great to find that quote.
[2:16:38] Bob Dobbs: I have to look up some collection of
[2:16:40] Bob Dobbs: Jack
[2:16:41] Bob Dobbs: Nicholson interviews because it's very strange.
[2:16:44] Bob Dobbs: It's a strange quote for that point,
[2:16:46] Bob Dobbs: the way he interpreted it.
[2:16:47] Bob Dobbs: He was right.
[2:16:48] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[2:16:48] Cameron McEwen: but it seems to me quite profound.
[2:16:51] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[2:16:51] Bob Dobbs: that's what I mean.
[2:16:51] Bob Dobbs: It's profound.
[2:16:53] Bob Dobbs: And he was correct.
[2:16:54] Cameron McEwen: You could see that the actor's life,
[2:16:57] Cameron McEwen: which is in a sense everybody's life,
[2:17:00] Cameron McEwen: is just stringing together one cliche after another.
[2:17:05] Cameron McEwen: the
[2:17:08] Cameron McEwen: What's needed for the new language is simply to be tuning in to the reverberations of the cliches.
[2:17:17] Bob Dobbs: You said reverberation.
[2:17:19] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.
[2:17:19] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[2:17:21] Cameron McEwen: I didn't say it properly.
[2:17:22] Cameron McEwen: I wasn't thinking.
[2:17:23] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[2:17:25] Bob Dobbs: And you said it earlier,
[2:17:26] Bob Dobbs: wrong earlier.
[2:17:28] Bob Dobbs: Anyways,
[2:17:29] Bob Dobbs: yeah,
[2:17:30] Bob Dobbs: that's interesting.
[2:17:32] Bob Dobbs: You might have gotten it that he discovered that acting was cliche probing.
[2:17:37] Bob Dobbs: or something you know what i mean yeah yeah yeah it really was crystallized for him so um so that was pretty good you know uh mary told me uh well i met this guy here david something forget his last name he was the last guy to propose a project in McLuhan they were going to do a um a
[2:17:57] Bob Dobbs: Malinowski what's that guy named uh bronislaw yeah Bronisław Malinowski bronislaw saying history of of civilization or something.
[2:18:05] Bob Dobbs: They were going to do that with McLuhan and Media,
[2:18:07] Bob Dobbs: with this guy.
[2:18:09] Bob Dobbs: And he told me what?
[2:18:12] Cameron McEwen: Wasn't his name like
[2:18:14] Cameron McEwen: Goldstein? Yeah,
[2:18:15] Bob Dobbs: his Jewish name,
[2:18:17] Bob Dobbs: Goldberg,
[2:18:17] Bob Dobbs: David somethingberg,
[2:18:19] Bob Dobbs: yeah.
[2:18:20] Bob Dobbs: And he did a book on bamboo trees in Hawaii,
[2:18:25] Bob Dobbs: if you look it up.
[2:18:26] Bob Dobbs: David Goldberg,
[2:18:27] Bob Dobbs: yeah,
[2:18:27] Bob Dobbs: maybe it meant Goldberg.
[2:18:29] Bob Dobbs: But what was I going to tell you?
[2:18:32] Bob Dobbs: He,
[2:18:34] Bob Dobbs: so...
[2:18:36] Bob Dobbs: We're talking about cliche,
[2:18:39] Bob Dobbs: I don't know,
[2:18:40] Bob Dobbs: I don't know if I can remember it,
[2:18:41] Bob Dobbs: what did he,
[2:18:42] Bob Dobbs: he had a good anecdote.
[2:18:47] Bob Dobbs: I don't remember right now,
[2:18:48] Bob Dobbs: I don't want to get bogged down.
[2:18:49] Bob Dobbs: So,
[2:18:51] Bob Dobbs: he,
[2:18:52] Bob Dobbs: the next,
[2:18:52] Bob Dobbs: so now we're on page 155,
[2:18:56] Bob Dobbs: the retrieved archetypes are antiquities.
[2:18:59] Bob Dobbs: Now it's important that in Cliché to Archetype,
[2:19:03] Bob Dobbs: in the book,
[2:19:03] Bob Dobbs: archetype is more visual space.
[2:19:06] Bob Dobbs: And cliché is oral,
[2:19:09] Bob Dobbs: preliterate,
[2:19:10] Bob Dobbs: right?
[2:19:11] Bob Dobbs: Did you notice that?
[2:19:13] Cameron McEwen: I didn't,
[2:19:13] Cameron McEwen: but it makes sense to me.
[2:19:14] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[2:19:16] Bob Dobbs: We don't have archetypes.
[2:19:17] Cameron McEwen: Which explains why they flip.
[2:19:22] Bob Dobbs: He flipped?
[2:19:23] Cameron McEwen: No,
[2:19:26] Cameron McEwen: when you express cliché and archetype in terms of reality and visuality,
[2:19:33] Cameron McEwen: it explains why they flip.
[2:19:35] Cameron McEwen: Because they each need the other.
[2:19:38] Bob Dobbs: Right,
[2:19:38] Bob Dobbs: and you don't have archetypes,
[2:19:42] Bob Dobbs: Jung or Freud or anything,
[2:19:44] Bob Dobbs: in preliterate cultures.
[2:19:46] Bob Dobbs: It's all cliché probe or ritual.
[2:19:49] Bob Dobbs: You don't have the container visual bias aspect of archetypes.
[2:19:55] Bob Dobbs: They're like frames that don't work in the Electric Age.
[2:20:00] Bob Dobbs: So I have here the retreat.
[2:20:04] Bob Dobbs: And he spells that out,
[2:20:05] Bob Dobbs: cliché to archetype.
[2:20:06] Bob Dobbs: Not many people have said that.
[2:20:06] Cameron McEwen: They don't notice that.
[2:20:11] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[2:20:11] Cameron McEwen: that relates to technology as cliché that we talked about a long time ago.
[2:20:16] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[2:20:18] Cameron McEwen: In order to separate out cliché from archetype,
[2:20:23] Cameron McEwen: you need to make a kind of shortcut through experience.
[2:20:29] Bob Dobbs: And experience is the word.
[2:20:30] Cameron McEwen: Experience isn't like that.
[2:20:32] Cameron McEwen: But it can be analyzed like that.
[2:20:35] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[2:20:36] Bob Dobbs: the senses are cliches.
[2:20:38] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.
[2:20:39] Bob Dobbs: Cliche actions.
[2:20:41] Bob Dobbs: So I have here,
[2:20:42] Bob Dobbs: the retrieved archetypes are antiquities.
[2:20:44] Bob Dobbs: That's people going to museums,
[2:20:46] Bob Dobbs: institutions that have a heavy Western bias,
[2:20:48] Bob Dobbs: an outer trip.
[2:20:50] Bob Dobbs: The inner trip probes,
[2:20:52] Bob Dobbs: quote,
[2:20:52] Bob Dobbs: prefers the probing cliche world of the module.
[2:20:55] Bob Dobbs: Web 2.0 users are inner trippers and extremists.
[2:20:59] Bob Dobbs: The meme module brings...
[2:21:01] Bob Dobbs: fleeting order fleeting order to the instagram and tiktok obsessions my phrase coined 30 years ago Android meme is limo juice and was more prophetic than any other digital nomenclature such as virtual reality or artificial intelligence it's
[2:21:18] Bob Dobbs: just the word itself resonated the word meme for people to use today they don't say virtual reality or artificial intelligence they say ai
[2:21:30] Bob Dobbs: But in the conversation of what people are exchanging,
[2:21:34] Bob Dobbs: they always talk about,
[2:21:35] Bob Dobbs: you know,
[2:21:35] Bob Dobbs: distributing memes.
[2:21:38] Bob Dobbs: So,
[2:21:38] Bob Dobbs: six schools of media ecology are the result of the Android memes replay of McLuhan in the
[2:21:44] Bob Dobbs: 90s.
[2:21:46] Bob Dobbs: And this is where the symptoms of quadrophrenia make their entrance.
[2:21:49] Bob Dobbs: McLuhan knew that he had to mime discontinuously the splintering afterimages of human-slash-technological cognition.
[2:21:57] Bob Dobbs: to manifest an impossible anti-environment to the seduction affected by the Pollstergeists.
[2:22:04] Bob Dobbs: Now,
[2:22:04] Bob Dobbs: that's a big statement.
[2:22:06] Bob Dobbs: I think we should end with that.
[2:22:09] Bob Dobbs: How are we doing time-wise?
[2:22:11] Bob Dobbs: We've done about two hours.
[2:22:13] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[2:22:13] Cameron McEwen: just after six,
[2:22:14] Cameron McEwen: we're doing fine.
[2:22:16] Bob Dobbs: So what do you think?
[2:22:16] Bob Dobbs: That's a pretty big,
[2:22:18] Bob Dobbs: important statement.
[2:22:19] Cameron McEwen: That's a great statement to end on.
[2:22:22] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[2:22:22] Bob Dobbs: we want to spend a couple of days on that one.
[2:22:27] Bob Dobbs: Okay,
[2:22:28] Bob Dobbs: so awesome,
[2:22:30] Bob Dobbs: excellent.
[2:22:32] Cameron McEwen: Good.
[2:22:33] Bob Dobbs: Allow Bob to do a solo.
[2:22:34] Bob Dobbs: I did a solo.
[2:22:34] Cameron McEwen: I hope we do some more Finnegans Wake in the future.
[2:22:36] Bob Dobbs: What'd you say?
[2:22:38] Cameron McEwen: I'd say I hope we do Finnegans Wake again.
[2:22:40] Bob Dobbs: Oh,
[2:22:40] Bob Dobbs: yeah,
[2:22:41] Bob Dobbs: we could do it any time.
[2:22:42] Bob Dobbs: Maybe we should make it a feature.
[2:22:44] Cameron McEwen: Absolutely.
[2:22:46] Bob Dobbs: But thanks for letting me do a solo tonight.
[2:22:52] Cameron McEwen: It was my pleasure.
[2:22:53] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[2:22:54] Bob Dobbs: it was good.
[2:22:55] Bob Dobbs: Okay,
[2:22:56] Bob Dobbs: well.
[2:22:57] Bob Dobbs: Thanks a lot,
[2:22:57] Bob Dobbs: man,
[2:22:58] Bob Dobbs: and good luck with your attempt to inframe the quantum physicists.
[2:23:05] Cameron McEwen: Yes,
[2:23:05] Cameron McEwen: sir.
[2:23:07] Bob Dobbs: Okay,
[2:23:07] Bob Dobbs: Cameron,
[2:23:07] Bob Dobbs: thanks a lot.
[2:23:08] Bob Dobbs: Talk to you soon.
[2:23:09] Cameron McEwen: Thank you,
[2:23:09] Cameron McEwen: Bob.
[2:23:09] Bob Dobbs: Okay,
[2:23:10] Bob Dobbs: bye.
[2:23:10] Bob Dobbs: Bye-bye.