[00:02] Bob Dobbs: Hello,
[00:02] Bob Dobbs: this is Bob Dobbs and Cameron McEwen,
[00:05] Bob Dobbs: not Cameron McLuhan,
[00:07] Bob Dobbs: Cameron McEwen,
[00:10] Bob Dobbs: and we're looking at the pamphlet.
[00:13] Bob Dobbs: We're at the top of page 167.
[00:15] Bob Dobbs: This is episode number 80 being recorded on December 14,
[00:18] Bob Dobbs: 2023,
[00:23] Bob Dobbs: and we did Frank Zingrone's quote from the Media Simplex that moves us on to page 167.
[00:31] Bob Dobbs: And then we go into a statement by me on the hologram.
[00:35] Bob Dobbs: We did that.
[00:36] Bob Dobbs: So the next quote is from Richard Cavell,
[00:40] Bob Dobbs: a professor,
[00:40] Bob Dobbs: I think,
[00:41] Bob Dobbs: out in Vancouver somewhere.
[00:42] Bob Dobbs: Do you know him,
[00:43] Bob Dobbs: Cameron?
[00:44] Cameron McEwen: I don't know him.
[00:45] Cameron McEwen: I've been back and forth a few times by email.
[00:50] Cameron McEwen: He's at UBC.
[00:53] Bob Dobbs: Right.
[00:55] Bob Dobbs: Remediating McLuhan.
[00:57] Bob Dobbs: I think that's the book.
[00:58] Bob Dobbs: sort of goes into virtual reality.
[01:00] Bob Dobbs: I like that book.
[01:01] Bob Dobbs: Other people didn't like it.
[01:02] Bob Dobbs: I haven't read it.
[01:06] Bob Dobbs: You haven't read that.
[01:07] Bob Dobbs: You read McLuhan in Space,
[01:08] Bob Dobbs: probably,
[01:08] Bob Dobbs: though.
[01:09] Cameron McEwen: Yes,
[01:09] Cameron McEwen: I did.
[01:11] Bob Dobbs: Okay.
[01:12] Bob Dobbs: He says,
[01:13] Bob Dobbs: if,
[01:14] Bob Dobbs: as Mark Taylor has suggested,
[01:15] Bob Dobbs: modern philosophy is characterized by an encounter with the other,
[01:20] Bob Dobbs: and then he cites Taylor in Introduction,
[01:23] Bob Dobbs: page 8,
[01:25] Bob Dobbs: then in McLuhan,
[01:27] Bob Dobbs: We find this insight taken beyond Hegel's meditations on the master-slave relationship to the discovery that the other we encounter at the heart of humanity is ourselves as technology,
[01:37] Bob Dobbs: capital A-S,
[01:38] Bob Dobbs: ourselves as technology.
[01:41] Bob Dobbs: Hence the double-edge of McLuhan's humanist,
[01:43] Bob Dobbs: humanist in quotes,
[01:44] Bob Dobbs: hence the double-edge of McLuhan's humanist take on technology,
[01:48] Bob Dobbs: since it represents not simply a humanizing of technology,
[01:51] Bob Dobbs: but the more disturbing,
[01:52] Bob Dobbs: or perhaps transformative,
[01:54] Bob Dobbs: question mark,
[01:55] Bob Dobbs: notion that technology is the precondition of our being human.
[02:00] Bob Dobbs: So that's an interesting quote.
[02:02] Bob Dobbs: So that's from his book,
[02:03] Bob Dobbs: 2016,
[02:04] Bob Dobbs: Remediating McLuhan,
[02:06] Bob Dobbs: page 26.
[02:09] Bob Dobbs: Now I say,
[02:10] Bob Dobbs: in blue,
[02:11] Bob Dobbs: in casual oral winging it,
[02:14] Bob Dobbs: say,
[02:15] Bob Dobbs: I say,
[02:15] Bob Dobbs: see,
[02:16] Bob Dobbs: there's the AP,
[02:17] Bob Dobbs: Anthropomorphic Physical aspect.
[02:19] Bob Dobbs: And that's what Wyndham Lewis said back in 1926.
[02:22] Bob Dobbs: He tried to find the human shape in technology.
[02:25] Bob Dobbs: Remember,
[02:25] Bob Dobbs: now as a side thing,
[02:26] Bob Dobbs: remember that's what he says to Innis in 1952 or so,
[02:32] Bob Dobbs: a letter to,
[02:32] Bob Dobbs: in 51,
[02:33] Bob Dobbs: a letter to Innis in March saying,
[02:37] Bob Dobbs: have you looked at Lewis?
[02:40] Bob Dobbs: He's trying to show the human shape in our present technological situation.
[02:45] Bob Dobbs: So I'm thinking of that.
[02:47] Bob Dobbs: So then
[02:49] Bob Dobbs: I quote
[02:52] Bob Dobbs: Richard Cavell.
[02:53] Bob Dobbs: The double edge of McLuhan's humanist take on technology,
[02:57] Bob Dobbs: since it represents not simply humanizing of technology,
[03:00] Bob Dobbs: but the more disturbing notion that technology is a precondition of our being human.
[03:04] Bob Dobbs: That's the end of the quote,
[03:05] Bob Dobbs: and I said,
[03:06] Bob Dobbs: being human is so very strange.
[03:09] Bob Dobbs: Now,
[03:11] Bob Dobbs: what he's saying there is actually he's looking for the human.
[03:18] Bob Dobbs: I'm calling that the AP,
[03:20] Bob Dobbs: which is the new figure for the new ground of post.
[03:23] Bob Dobbs: Android meme.
[03:25] Bob Dobbs: That's pretty subtle,
[03:26] Bob Dobbs: but that's what I'm getting at.
[03:28] Bob Dobbs: So then you get to page 168,
[03:31] Bob Dobbs: and another quote from Cavell,
[03:32] Bob Dobbs: 2016,
[03:34] Bob Dobbs: page 113.
[03:35] Bob Dobbs: This notion of biotechnological culture is linked at once to the virtual and to the material.
[03:41] Bob Dobbs: I'd say the virtual is cloned ESP,
[03:43] Bob Dobbs: and the material is voluntary ESP in the
[03:48] Bob Dobbs: Web
[03:50] Bob Dobbs: 2.0. So then he says it is indeterminate.
[03:53] Bob Dobbs: and it is human to the extent that it constantly transforms the human.
[03:57] Bob Dobbs: A humanity never identical to itself because what makes us most human,
[04:02] Bob Dobbs: as McLuhan remarked,
[04:03] Bob Dobbs: is technology itself.
[04:05] Bob Dobbs: Now,
[04:06] Bob Dobbs: what he's pointing out,
[04:08] Bob Dobbs: that's already McLuhan stuff.
[04:10] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[04:12] Cameron McEwen: there's nothing.
[04:15] Cameron McEwen: If I were you,
[04:16] Cameron McEwen: I wouldn't be quoting this stuff because I don't think it's very interesting.
[04:21] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[04:21] Cameron McEwen: but I'm cool.
[04:22] Bob Dobbs: Okay.
[04:22] Bob Dobbs: I'm quoting it as figure of the AP effect.
[04:26] Bob Dobbs: It's,
[04:26] Bob Dobbs: you know,
[04:27] Bob Dobbs: these are figures,
[04:28] Bob Dobbs: unconscious figures.
[04:30] Bob Dobbs: Now,
[04:30] Bob Dobbs: I'm not citing him as an important authority.
[04:32] Bob Dobbs: He's a guy closest to something's going on.
[04:35] Bob Dobbs: Nobody else says something like this that I can use to make my point,
[04:38] Bob Dobbs: which he wouldn't even know.
[04:40] Cameron McEwen: Okay,
[04:40] Cameron McEwen: good.
[04:41] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[04:42] Cameron McEwen: Notice that,
[04:43] Cameron McEwen: you know,
[04:43] Cameron McEwen: he's just across the water from Kroker.
[04:46] Bob Dobbs: So,
[04:49] Cameron McEwen: you know,
[04:49] Cameron McEwen: part of this is a reaction.
[04:51] Bob Dobbs: to Kroker stuff and to sort of saluting it 10 or 15 years after Kroker already said it that's right and and he's he's a bit he came to McLuhan late i think in his academic career he when he when he did this book McLuhan space whenever that was i called him up and
[05:09] Bob Dobbs: he said uh
[05:11] Bob Dobbs: He spent two weeks at the archives,
[05:13] Bob Dobbs: only two weeks.
[05:14] Bob Dobbs: But I didn't complain.
[05:15] Bob Dobbs: He said he did that.
[05:17] Bob Dobbs: And he said,
[05:18] Bob Dobbs: is he doing this book?
[05:19] Bob Dobbs: Or he said to me,
[05:20] Bob Dobbs: it took him two weeks before he figured out what acoustic space is,
[05:23] Bob Dobbs: like to visualize the non-visual or something.
[05:26] Bob Dobbs: Like that was his big insight.
[05:28] Bob Dobbs: His big percept was sort of catching up to McLuhan's acoustic space and understanding it non-conceptually.
[05:35] Bob Dobbs: That's just a goddamn beginning.
[05:37] Bob Dobbs: He needs to spend another six months there and read all the other good stuff.
[05:41] Bob Dobbs: But that's what he makes at the basis of his book,
[05:44] Bob Dobbs: and he mixes it in with tactility.
[05:46] Bob Dobbs: I'm not even sure if he got tactility right,
[05:48] Bob Dobbs: but it's more acoustic.
[05:52] Bob Dobbs: Now,
[05:53] Bob Dobbs: Theo liked the book because it went through the arts,
[05:55] Bob Dobbs: and that was good.
[05:56] Bob Dobbs: He had a good reference of McLuhan's influence on the art world more than most other books did,
[06:02] Bob Dobbs: you know,
[06:03] Bob Dobbs: Canadian art and American art.
[06:05] Bob Dobbs: So it may be British.
[06:06] Bob Dobbs: So that was good.
[06:07] Bob Dobbs: But,
[06:08] Bob Dobbs: um...
[06:09] Bob Dobbs: So then he comes along and does this virtual stuff,
[06:12] Bob Dobbs: which you're right.
[06:13] Bob Dobbs: He's looking at Kroker.
[06:14] Bob Dobbs: He's trying to figure out whatever his bias is to fit it in there.
[06:18] Bob Dobbs: And he's talking about going back to the human.
[06:21] Bob Dobbs: I think that's tricky to see the human as what is great about the virtual and the
[06:34] Bob Dobbs: Android meme and the tech body.
[06:37] Bob Dobbs: But it's based on...
[06:39] Bob Dobbs: fear or it's based on hope,
[06:42] Bob Dobbs: optimism.
[06:43] Bob Dobbs: It's not a clear-eyed view of the real problem.
[06:49] Bob Dobbs: It's not problematic enough.
[06:51] Bob Dobbs: You know what I'm saying?
[06:52] Cameron McEwen: Sure.
[06:53] Cameron McEwen: Well,
[06:53] Cameron McEwen: I agree with you.
[06:54] Cameron McEwen: It needs to be problematized.
[06:57] Cameron McEwen: For me,
[06:57] Cameron McEwen: the art angle,
[07:01] Cameron McEwen: you could say,
[07:03] Cameron McEwen: of his first book,
[07:04] Cameron McEwen: the Oxford book,
[07:06] Cameron McEwen: McLuhan in Space,
[07:08] Cameron McEwen: Um,
[07:09] Cameron McEwen: that is problematic in the same way that
[07:14] Cameron McEwen: Jordan Peterson's stuff is problematic.
[07:17] Cameron McEwen: If you read
[07:19] Cameron McEwen: McLuhan as an artist...
[07:22] Bob Dobbs: The Gutenberg artist,
[07:23] Bob Dobbs: they can't get out of that.
[07:25] Cameron McEwen: Correct.
[07:26] Cameron McEwen: You presuppose a ground that isn't given.
[07:30] Bob Dobbs: That's right.
[07:31] Cameron McEwen: So you can only begin to read McLuhan when you realize that...
[07:39] Cameron McEwen: The artist cannot construct the artist.
[07:45] Cameron McEwen: It doesn't work.
[07:46] Cameron McEwen: So if ground is not something that we can just sort of grab out
[08:01] Cameron McEwen: of modern art or something,
[08:05] Cameron McEwen: that problematizes.
[08:07] Cameron McEwen: ground in a way that can be very fertile,
[08:11] Cameron McEwen: but it scares most people.
[08:13] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[08:14] Bob Dobbs: because,
[08:14] Bob Dobbs: you know,
[08:15] Bob Dobbs: most of them are materialist,
[08:17] Bob Dobbs: secular people with a little New Age whammy Buddhism are thrown in,
[08:22] Bob Dobbs: and they are still looking for the traditional sacred in there.
[08:26] Bob Dobbs: And let me see,
[08:28] Bob Dobbs: how do you say that?
[08:28] Bob Dobbs: They are looking,
[08:30] Bob Dobbs: oh,
[08:30] Bob Dobbs: and art becomes their pagan religion,
[08:33] Bob Dobbs: their secular religion.
[08:34] Bob Dobbs: But it's Gutenberg art.
[08:35] Bob Dobbs: So they can't take...
[08:37] Bob Dobbs: The raw statement that the media environments are the new art forms,
[08:42] Bob Dobbs: teaching machines,
[08:43] Bob Dobbs: upsetters of society,
[08:45] Bob Dobbs: which Gutenberg artists used to do.
[08:48] Bob Dobbs: And
[08:48] Bob Dobbs: I say that Wyndham Lewis,
[08:51] Bob Dobbs: he confronted the problem the clearest of his generation,
[08:55] Bob Dobbs: but he couldn't give up the Gutenberg,
[08:57] Bob Dobbs: really.
[08:57] Bob Dobbs: It was hard for him to do it.
[08:59] Bob Dobbs: But his words go beyond the Gutenberg bias,
[09:03] Bob Dobbs: and that's what McLuhan saw.
[09:05] Bob Dobbs: So McLuhan had the advantage of the troubleshooting Lewis did.
[09:09] Bob Dobbs: So McLuhan could just ride in knowing he had support by what Lewis had almost got to.
[09:15] Bob Dobbs: And he just is beyond everybody,
[09:17] Bob Dobbs: beyond the Gutenberg.
[09:19] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[09:19] Cameron McEwen: I think that's right.
[09:21] Cameron McEwen: But what I would say is that
[09:24] Cameron McEwen: Lewis was a kind of ambiguous character.
[09:28] Cameron McEwen: So he said a lot of great stuff,
[09:30] Cameron McEwen: but he also said a lot of stuff that contradicted the great stuff.
[09:33] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[09:34] Bob Dobbs: So that's where I think he couldn't totally give up.
[09:37] Bob Dobbs: And it's also the technology.
[09:39] Bob Dobbs: He had to make a fucking living.
[09:41] Bob Dobbs: McLuhan said it was great getting a PhD.
[09:43] Bob Dobbs: He had it easy.
[09:44] Bob Dobbs: Once he had tenure,
[09:45] Bob Dobbs: man,
[09:45] Bob Dobbs: he could do anything.
[09:47] Bob Dobbs: So
[09:48] Bob Dobbs: Lewis and Joyce didn't have that.
[09:49] Bob Dobbs: They had to make a living.
[09:51] Bob Dobbs: So they had to put on the Gutenberg a little bit.
[09:55] Bob Dobbs: And so they ended up completing the Gutenberg.
[10:00] Bob Dobbs: They completed the men in 1914.
[10:02] Bob Dobbs: That's it.
[10:02] Bob Dobbs: It's done.
[10:03] Bob Dobbs: And McLuhan had the genius to see that's what they did,
[10:06] Bob Dobbs: and he dealt with that.
[10:09] Bob Dobbs: So he's in a whole new open field that
[10:12] Bob Dobbs: Kenner and maybe even Theo feels debatable or all his buddies.
[10:18] Bob Dobbs: None of them could go as far as McLuhan.
[10:22] Cameron McEwen: I certainly agree with that.
[10:25] Cameron McEwen: Part of that was
[10:26] Cameron McEwen: McLuhan's failure.
[10:29] Cameron McEwen: McLuhan was attempting to communicate something that...
[10:37] Cameron McEwen: came out of 1914,
[10:38] Cameron McEwen: as you say,
[10:40] Cameron McEwen: but he didn't succeed,
[10:42] Cameron McEwen: and he was aware that he didn't succeed.
[10:44] Bob Dobbs: Yep.
[10:45] Cameron McEwen: So that's sort of the problem.
[10:48] Cameron McEwen: That's where we come in.
[10:50] Cameron McEwen: We come in with that awareness.
[10:52] Cameron McEwen: We're attempting to make good that void.
[10:57] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[10:57] Bob Dobbs: did you just say we are?
[10:59] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.
[11:00] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[11:00] Bob Dobbs: And,
[11:00] Bob Dobbs: of course,
[11:01] Bob Dobbs: we've got the whole hardware thing I've got going.
[11:04] Bob Dobbs: But I'm not going to talk about me.
[11:05] Bob Dobbs: We did that a couple of sessions ago,
[11:07] Bob Dobbs: and that was nice.
[11:08] Bob Dobbs: But we'll go back,
[11:10] Bob Dobbs: step back into talking about McLuhan and where this software pattern recognition leads to.
[11:20] Bob Dobbs: So,
[11:21] Bob Dobbs: but you see these quotes are really good for propping up what I mean by this trend to the AP,
[11:29] Bob Dobbs: to the attempt to find a human which is there.
[11:32] Bob Dobbs: But it's either the chemical body bias,
[11:34] Bob Dobbs: which is also Gutenberg,
[11:36] Bob Dobbs: or the TV body.
[11:38] Bob Dobbs: They can't handle the anarchy of the chip body and the mystery body,
[11:44] Bob Dobbs: which I bring in through non-physical.
[11:48] Cameron McEwen: Shouldn't we say that any body,
[11:52] Cameron McEwen: any one body,
[11:53] Cameron McEwen: in fact,
[11:54] Cameron McEwen: any two or three bodies,
[11:56] Cameron McEwen: are always going to be the Gutenberg Galaxy?
[12:00] Cameron McEwen: Because beyond the Gutenberg.
[12:02] Cameron McEwen: Well,
[12:02] Cameron McEwen: there is no beyond in the sense of chronological beyond or spatial beyond.
[12:08] Cameron McEwen: But any attempt to think through the Gutenberg Galaxy needs all of your bodies at once.
[12:18] Bob Dobbs: Now,
[12:18] Bob Dobbs: that's what I call quadrophrenia.
[12:20] Bob Dobbs: And I cleverly say you apply the tetrad to the way you interplay your bodies.
[12:25] Cameron McEwen: Yes.
[12:26] Bob Dobbs: And then it becomes the Android meme,
[12:28] Bob Dobbs: echoes that,
[12:28] Bob Dobbs: and that's the pentatic quadrophrenia mirrored back at you.
[12:32] Bob Dobbs: And if you get that,
[12:32] Bob Dobbs: then you're right there with me.
[12:34] Bob Dobbs: You get it.
[12:35] Cameron McEwen: That's right.
[12:36] Cameron McEwen: That's right.
[12:36] Cameron McEwen: And then there's the sixth body.
[12:38] Cameron McEwen: So all I'm saying here is my usual stuff,
[12:43] Cameron McEwen: that everything begins with plurality.
[12:47] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[12:47] Cameron McEwen: And any attempt to limit plurality,
[12:51] Cameron McEwen: be it to one of the bodies or even two of the bodies together or something like this,
[12:56] Cameron McEwen: gets you right back into the Gutenberg Galaxy.
[12:58] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[12:58] Bob Dobbs: and to limit it to one medium.
[13:00] Bob Dobbs: To be a TV producer or a movie guy or a book writer,
[13:04] Bob Dobbs: magazine guys,
[13:05] Bob Dobbs: these are all still in that trap.
[13:07] Bob Dobbs: And I say that Zappa was the artist who was post-artist,
[13:13] Bob Dobbs: wasn't even a musician,
[13:15] Bob Dobbs: because he slid between all the expressions.
[13:19] Bob Dobbs: He used all of them so that he could get attention and then talk to people.
[13:25] Bob Dobbs: Just talk.
[13:26] Bob Dobbs: Just say things he'd never heard before.
[13:30] Bob Dobbs: That's why Zappa is very interesting,
[13:32] Bob Dobbs: and the note is based on his quadrophrenia.
[13:35] Bob Dobbs: Now,
[13:35] Bob Dobbs: I call them all,
[13:36] Bob Dobbs: McLuhan and Zappa and whoever else,
[13:41] Bob Dobbs: Kroker and Thompson,
[13:42] Bob Dobbs: myself,
[13:44] Bob Dobbs: I didn't know you then.
[13:45] Bob Dobbs: We're satellite conductors.
[13:47] Bob Dobbs: It's the solar government position.
[13:49] Bob Dobbs: Not worrying about world government.
[13:51] Bob Dobbs: We're off the planet,
[13:52] Bob Dobbs: and we're modulating all the environments and bodies as they holeopathically shrink.
[13:56] Bob Dobbs: And that's what the chart is a picture of.
[13:58] Bob Dobbs: It's the view from the satellite conductor.
[14:00] Bob Dobbs: And the satellite conductor is not a visual perspective position.
[14:04] Bob Dobbs: You know what I mean?
[14:05] Bob Dobbs: It's just beyond the terrestrial environments that people think they're inside of.
[14:11] Bob Dobbs: There's another level.
[14:13] Cameron McEwen: So
[14:13] Cameron McEwen: McLuhan says our ground has become the sky.
[14:17] Bob Dobbs: Yes,
[14:17] Bob Dobbs: tuning the sky.
[14:19] Bob Dobbs: That's right.
[14:19] Bob Dobbs: That's exactly it.
[14:23] Bob Dobbs: You know,
[14:24] Bob Dobbs: my writing is about satellite conductor is me applying McLuhan and what he said with a few new terms,
[14:30] Bob Dobbs: more modern terms.
[14:32] Bob Dobbs: Instead of saying two in the sky,
[14:33] Bob Dobbs: say satellite conducting.
[14:35] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.
[14:36] Bob Dobbs: Which the government,
[14:38] Bob Dobbs: you know,
[14:38] Bob Dobbs: the international elite do through what's it called?
[14:44] Bob Dobbs: The five nations,
[14:46] Bob Dobbs: the five I's,
[14:47] Bob Dobbs: echelon.
[14:49] Bob Dobbs: That's the bureaucratic HCE version of this situation.
[14:53] Bob Dobbs: The ALP ground version is everybody living off-planet in the virtual situation.
[15:00] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.
[15:01] Bob Dobbs: And,
[15:01] Bob Dobbs: you know,
[15:01] Bob Dobbs: it's not accurate to say off planet,
[15:03] Bob Dobbs: but you've got to say a few words and then have people object to it.
[15:06] Bob Dobbs: And then you can clarify,
[15:07] Bob Dobbs: yes,
[15:08] Bob Dobbs: your objection is correct and I agree with you.
[15:11] Bob Dobbs: But I have to start.
[15:12] Bob Dobbs: I won't say I've got to use the words when I talk to you.
[15:14] Bob Dobbs: I have to start off with words or a couple of patterns to get it going.
[15:18] Bob Dobbs: And then we change it if we can.
[15:22] Bob Dobbs: If there's a bit of matching about what I'm saying,
[15:25] Bob Dobbs: then you get there.
[15:26] Bob Dobbs: So
[15:28] Bob Dobbs: That this notion of biotechnological culture is linked at once to the virtual and to the material.
[15:33] Bob Dobbs: No,
[15:34] Bob Dobbs: it's linked to at least four things,
[15:35] Bob Dobbs: not two.
[15:37] Bob Dobbs: It is indeterminate and it is human,
[15:39] Bob Dobbs: not necessarily.
[15:41] Bob Dobbs: Better to say chemical body,
[15:42] Bob Dobbs: to the extent that it constantly transforms the human.
[15:45] Bob Dobbs: A humanity never identical to itself because what makes us most human,
[15:49] Bob Dobbs: as McLuhan remarks,
[15:50] Bob Dobbs: is technology itself.
[15:51] Bob Dobbs: It's actually what makes us most human is the multiple bodies and it's not human.
[15:57] Bob Dobbs: So it's actually...
[15:58] Bob Dobbs: inadequate the way he expresses this.
[16:01] Bob Dobbs: But for those that think McLuhan is some old fuddy-duddy just talking about television,
[16:05] Bob Dobbs: he at least takes quotes from McLuhan and pushes McLuhan up to the Kroker gang.
[16:13] Bob Dobbs: You know?
[16:13] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[16:13] Cameron McEwen: I agree with that.
[16:14] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[16:15] Bob Dobbs: So
[16:16] Bob Dobbs: I say that's a double whammy for people.
[16:19] Bob Dobbs: They think technology is the inhuman part of us.
[16:23] Bob Dobbs: So,
[16:23] Bob Dobbs: yes,
[16:23] Bob Dobbs: he's okay for...
[16:26] Bob Dobbs: Trying to show technology is human,
[16:28] Bob Dobbs: but it's way more complicated now.
[16:33] Bob Dobbs: I'm saying that technology is not human.
[16:35] Bob Dobbs: You know,
[16:36] Bob Dobbs: the technology extends itself.
[16:38] Bob Dobbs: If you try to get it back to the human,
[16:41] Bob Dobbs: you're praying for some human level still to be salvaged.
[16:44] Bob Dobbs: That's the AP yearning,
[16:47] Bob Dobbs: the yearning of an Anthropomorphic Physical.
[16:49] Bob Dobbs: It's not dealing with the cold reality of post-AP.
[16:54] Bob Dobbs: So we're in this.
[16:55] Bob Dobbs: the chapter where I'm going explaining the AP,
[16:58] Bob Dobbs: but we're going to move past that into the terror of the tech body,
[17:02] Bob Dobbs: let's say,
[17:05] Bob Dobbs: which is not human.
[17:07] Cameron McEwen: Does it ring true to you to say that the Anthropomorphic Physical is
[17:22] Cameron McEwen: a logic?
[17:25] Cameron McEwen: for trying to reach ground.
[17:28] Bob Dobbs: Yes.
[17:29] Cameron McEwen: And because it's a logic trying to reach ground,
[17:33] Cameron McEwen: it's inevitably plural because no logic can do it.
[17:38] Bob Dobbs: Well,
[17:38] Bob Dobbs: you'll see,
[17:39] Bob Dobbs: this is the perfect logic of my pamphlet here.
[17:42] Bob Dobbs: I'm laying out the AP,
[17:43] Bob Dobbs: but I'm going towards understanding the plural,
[17:45] Bob Dobbs: which I call quadrophrenia.
[17:48] Bob Dobbs: And I'm applying quadrophrenia,
[17:50] Bob Dobbs: quote,
[17:50] Bob Dobbs: like a science.
[17:51] Bob Dobbs: I'm applying the tetrad.
[17:53] Bob Dobbs: If you've got multiple...
[17:54] Bob Dobbs: plurals,
[17:55] Bob Dobbs: you know,
[17:56] Bob Dobbs: many,
[17:56] Bob Dobbs: many millions of plurality or whatever,
[17:59] Bob Dobbs: you can put it into a handable,
[18:01] Bob Dobbs: handy,
[18:02] Bob Dobbs: conceptual framework,
[18:05] Bob Dobbs: which is really perceptual,
[18:06] Bob Dobbs: but McLuhan told Richard Kostelanetz in
[18:08] Bob Dobbs: January 67 in the New York Times that people need a few concepts to get a grasp on reality,
[18:13] Bob Dobbs: to begin to deal with this.
[18:15] Bob Dobbs: So you can put it into a kind of order by making the quadrophrenia be a tetradic process.
[18:21] Bob Dobbs: So that should help people.
[18:24] Bob Dobbs: who have gotten that far,
[18:26] Bob Dobbs: and that's what I'm offering here.
[18:27] Bob Dobbs: It's a little support.
[18:29] Bob Dobbs: But you just say plural,
[18:31] Bob Dobbs: and that's that,
[18:31] Bob Dobbs: and they've got to figure that out.
[18:36] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.
[18:37] Bob Dobbs: Okay,
[18:37] Bob Dobbs: so then the next quote,
[18:40] Bob Dobbs: McLuhan's extension theory is paradoxical in precisely this way.
[18:44] Bob Dobbs: Media take us beyond ourselves,
[18:48] Bob Dobbs: and I guess we would say media go beyond ourselves,
[18:51] Bob Dobbs: as well as take us beyond ourselves.
[18:53] Bob Dobbs: It is in this process that we discover ourselves as human.
[18:59] Bob Dobbs: This utterance is the tragedy and ecstasy of media.
[19:03] Bob Dobbs: Okay,
[19:03] Bob Dobbs: so he's saying if you discover yourself as human,
[19:09] Bob Dobbs: and then he goes back to saying it's a tragedy before you sort of think the human is going to be still there.
[19:18] Bob Dobbs: He's not saying that discover ourselves as human is a tragedy.
[19:22] Bob Dobbs: He's saying the outer,
[19:23] Bob Dobbs: it's the extensions,
[19:26] Bob Dobbs: and that's McLuhan.
[19:29] Cameron McEwen: But this is,
[19:31] Cameron McEwen: you know,
[19:34] Cameron McEwen: all of this stuff is naive,
[19:39] Cameron McEwen: what Cavell is saying,
[19:41] Cameron McEwen: because it goes back to early Christian theology and beyond that.
[19:49] Cameron McEwen: back into
[19:50] Cameron McEwen: Greek philosophy and maybe beyond that to Egypt.
[19:54] Cameron McEwen: The whole idea of that outerance...
[19:58] Cameron McEwen: is a key to ontology,
[20:04] Cameron McEwen: is very,
[20:05] Cameron McEwen: very ancient.
[20:07] Cameron McEwen: It's what is already there wherever you have polytheism,
[20:12] Cameron McEwen: right?
[20:12] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.
[20:13] Cameron McEwen: Polytheism means that the original power is already splintered.
[20:19] Bob Dobbs: Yes.
[20:19] Cameron McEwen: And if the original power is already splintered,
[20:22] Cameron McEwen: then it's outered.
[20:25] Bob Dobbs: And that is cause,
[20:26] Bob Dobbs: it is splintered.
[20:27] Bob Dobbs: splintered once you engage human interaction and communication.
[20:33] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[20:33] Cameron McEwen: well,
[20:34] Cameron McEwen: that's right.
[20:34] Cameron McEwen: But that simply means that the engagement with communication is one way of going back to the oldest of the old.
[20:47] Bob Dobbs: Right.
[20:47] Bob Dobbs: And if you had a society or a tribe with the elders aware of what we're describing,
[20:54] Bob Dobbs: then there would be no particular There's...
[20:56] Bob Dobbs: specialisms or priestlyness or authority or even maybe an emperor or a tribal leader it would it would rotate around and be depending on skills but they wouldn't have got locked into um social order and identity but
[21:13] Bob Dobbs: that is pretty i don't see how that could have happened so we now have gone all this uh adventure where now we're forced to deal with that we we we can't
[21:25] Bob Dobbs: Go back to the human or the social or the technological or any of these,
[21:30] Bob Dobbs: what I call,
[21:32] Bob Dobbs: what I call social mortar.
[21:33] Bob Dobbs: The communication between people has now been so aborted,
[21:38] Bob Dobbs: and this can be,
[21:39] Bob Dobbs: quote,
[21:39] Bob Dobbs: a useful situation,
[21:41] Bob Dobbs: not something to panic about.
[21:44] Bob Dobbs: Because nobody can get a bureaucratic stronghold on the situation.
[21:52] Bob Dobbs: And this is...
[21:53] Bob Dobbs: expressed in politics by how the buck is passed from one institution to another.
[21:57] Bob Dobbs: And nobody's taking responsibility.
[21:59] Bob Dobbs: This actually should be clarified that that's useful.
[22:04] Bob Dobbs: But then that puts everybody out of work.
[22:06] Bob Dobbs: It puts everybody out of work.
[22:09] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.
[22:09] Cameron McEwen: I mean,
[22:10] Cameron McEwen: when we're talking about this,
[22:11] Cameron McEwen: we always have to talk about it from the position of quadrophrenia,
[22:16] Cameron McEwen: right?
[22:16] Bob Dobbs: Yes.
[22:19] Cameron McEwen: It's not that panic is...
[22:22] Cameron McEwen: to be overcome,
[22:25] Cameron McEwen: the panic is a part of what's going on.
[22:29] Bob Dobbs: The panic,
[22:29] Bob Dobbs: the schizophrenia,
[22:30] Bob Dobbs: the hysteria,
[22:31] Bob Dobbs: the ecstasy,
[22:32] Bob Dobbs: and the paranoia.
[22:34] Bob Dobbs: It's all fleeting.
[22:36] Bob Dobbs: I wouldn't even use those.
[22:38] Bob Dobbs: In my up-the-air reality,
[22:40] Bob Dobbs: I call them feeling states,
[22:41] Bob Dobbs: which the technology,
[22:44] Bob Dobbs: to the degree you think it's separate from us,
[22:45] Bob Dobbs: is playing back at us,
[22:48] Bob Dobbs: these feeling states.
[22:54] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[22:54] Cameron McEwen: I've got a problem here with one of the dogs that I try to deal with at the same time that I'm talking to you.
[23:00] Cameron McEwen: Sorry.
[23:01] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[23:02] Bob Dobbs: I'm one extension of you and you've got another extension there.
[23:07] Bob Dobbs: Okay,
[23:08] Bob Dobbs: so we're going along pretty good here.
[23:10] Bob Dobbs: So this outerence in italics is the tragedy and ecstasy.
[23:14] Bob Dobbs: So it's correct to say it's fun and not.
[23:19] Bob Dobbs: But let's make it quadrophrenic or five levels of...
[23:24] Bob Dobbs: emotion-feeling states.
[23:26] Bob Dobbs: This is why McLuhan said that emotions are states of mind.
[23:30] Bob Dobbs: That was not so declarable in the Gutenberg Galaxy,
[23:34] Bob Dobbs: except maybe by poets.
[23:36] Bob Dobbs: But this Gutenberg split between the brain,
[23:42] Bob Dobbs: mind,
[23:42] Bob Dobbs: and emotions doesn't work anymore.
[23:45] Bob Dobbs: Because actually we're in a new water,
[23:48] Bob Dobbs: which is none of those.
[23:51] Bob Dobbs: And okay,
[23:51] Bob Dobbs: that's what we mean by cloned ESP.
[23:55] Bob Dobbs: When everybody's got ESP,
[23:57] Bob Dobbs: boy,
[23:57] Bob Dobbs: that creates a pretty amazing interaction among people.
[24:06] Bob Dobbs: And to go politically correct or other kinds of correctness,
[24:10] Bob Dobbs: spiritual correctness,
[24:11] Bob Dobbs: whatever,
[24:13] Bob Dobbs: is an attempt to buffer the work of handling the quadrophrenia of these extreme quadrophrenic states,
[24:23] Bob Dobbs: emotion states.
[24:25] Bob Dobbs: How to live with that.
[24:27] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.
[24:29] Cameron McEwen: So that's the logic of the AP that we were just talking about.
[24:33] Bob Dobbs: That's right.
[24:35] Bob Dobbs: The AP,
[24:35] Bob Dobbs: in a way,
[24:36] Bob Dobbs: is the emotion state that is always there.
[24:39] Bob Dobbs: The AP is always lurking to put order or to say you're something.
[24:47] Bob Dobbs: Maybe that AP is an identity quest when that takes over.
[24:53] Bob Dobbs: Okay,
[24:54] Bob Dobbs: so then I say,
[24:55] Bob Dobbs: to explain Cavell,
[24:56] Bob Dobbs: I say,
[24:56] Bob Dobbs: McLuhan used to say that speech was utterance,
[24:59] Bob Dobbs: or actually the outering of the central nervous system.
[25:02] Bob Dobbs: Outering in quotes.
[25:03] Bob Dobbs: Richard Cavell got this from McLuhan.
[25:05] Bob Dobbs: The outering,
[25:06] Bob Dobbs: the stuttering,
[25:07] Bob Dobbs: the utterance.
[25:08] Bob Dobbs: This utterance is a tragedy and ecstasy.
[25:11] Bob Dobbs: And then I point out,
[25:12] Bob Dobbs: it's both.
[25:13] Bob Dobbs: And what is it?
[25:14] Bob Dobbs: It's getting taken beyond ourselves.
[25:16] Bob Dobbs: Humans really want to get a break from being human.
[25:19] Bob Dobbs: That's an important statement.
[25:21] Bob Dobbs: We do want to transcend the AP.
[25:24] Bob Dobbs: That's one of the,
[25:26] Bob Dobbs: that might be the drive for ecstasy or something.
[25:28] Bob Dobbs: But then if that becomes a drag,
[25:32] Bob Dobbs: then you express it in paranoia,
[25:34] Bob Dobbs: hysteria,
[25:35] Bob Dobbs: and other ways.
[25:36] Bob Dobbs: Or even boredom.
[25:37] Bob Dobbs: Maybe the sixth level is handling boredom.
[25:43] Cameron McEwen: Maybe.
[25:43] Bob Dobbs: Remember McLuhan said he yearned for boredom?
[25:50] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[25:50] Cameron McEwen: so in
[25:52] Cameron McEwen: Being and Time,
[25:54] Cameron McEwen: Heidegger deals a lot with boredom.
[25:56] Bob Dobbs: Does he use that word in German?
[25:59] Cameron McEwen: Yes,
[26:00] Cameron McEwen: and he tries to show that it's one of the ways of constituting human being.
[26:13] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[26:13] Bob Dobbs: see,
[26:14] Bob Dobbs: so paranoia,
[26:18] Bob Dobbs: you know...
[26:22] Bob Dobbs: massages,
[26:23] Bob Dobbs: attacks,
[26:24] Bob Dobbs: invades hysteria,
[26:26] Bob Dobbs: hysteria invades schizophrenia.
[26:28] Bob Dobbs: So these extreme states are always probing each other.
[26:33] Bob Dobbs: That's what we're in.
[26:38] Bob Dobbs: And so what did you say about Heidegger?
[26:40] Bob Dobbs: He said,
[26:41] Bob Dobbs: or
[26:42] Bob Dobbs: Heidegger about boredom,
[26:43] Bob Dobbs: that it was what?
[26:47] Cameron McEwen: It's one of the ways in which human being constitutes itself.
[26:52] Bob Dobbs: Right.
[26:52] Bob Dobbs: So this probing of feeling states,
[26:56] Bob Dobbs: you probably think that is the aboriginal condition,
[26:59] Bob Dobbs: the original condition we were in when we were talking about the,
[27:02] Bob Dobbs: quote,
[27:03] Bob Dobbs: private individual before socialization.
[27:06] Bob Dobbs: Those people,
[27:07] Bob Dobbs: those humans had to deal with this dicey interaction with other ape men they ran into.
[27:16] Bob Dobbs: Whatever condition they were in.
[27:21] Bob Dobbs: Right?
[27:22] Bob Dobbs: You get that?
[27:23] Cameron McEwen: Well,
[27:24] Cameron McEwen: I'm not sure
[27:27] Cameron McEwen: I deal with that.
[27:28] Cameron McEwen: Okay,
[27:29] Bob Dobbs: well,
[27:29] Bob Dobbs: I say it this way.
[27:30] Bob Dobbs: Maybe that's not the way it's said.
[27:31] Bob Dobbs: What you call the original problem we never got out of,
[27:34] Bob Dobbs: that's before socialization.
[27:36] Bob Dobbs: That's where we're at today.
[27:37] Bob Dobbs: That's the raw.
[27:41] Cameron McEwen: I don't think there's any human being before socialization.
[27:45] Cameron McEwen: I think human beings are probably an epiphenomenon of socialization.
[27:54] Bob Dobbs: Yes,
[27:54] Bob Dobbs: but if you depend on that too much,
[27:58] Bob Dobbs: you're ignoring the anti-human,
[28:00] Bob Dobbs: anti-socialism part of a human being.
[28:04] Bob Dobbs: No,
[28:04] Cameron McEwen: you're not,
[28:05] Cameron McEwen: because it's essential to socialization that there be difference.
[28:14] Cameron McEwen: And if that difference is abysmal,
[28:17] Cameron McEwen: then your own relationship to yourself,
[28:21] Cameron McEwen: your own relationship to other people,
[28:24] Cameron McEwen: your own relationship to the world,
[28:26] Cameron McEwen: your own relation to animals,
[28:29] Cameron McEwen: these are always riven by fundamental difference.
[28:34] Bob Dobbs: Right.
[28:35] Cameron McEwen: So
[28:37] Cameron McEwen: I don't think there is any such thing as human being that is not already confirmed.
[28:44] Cameron McEwen: confronted by abysmal difference internally and externally.
[28:49] Bob Dobbs: Right.
[28:50] Bob Dobbs: They would constantly question how human is your buddy?
[28:53] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[28:55] Cameron McEwen: absolutely.
[28:56] Bob Dobbs: How much can you match with what they're being driven by?
[29:00] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[29:02] Bob Dobbs: So
[29:03] Bob Dobbs: I wonder how these tribal rituals,
[29:06] Bob Dobbs: they were wrestling with that.
[29:09] Bob Dobbs: What part of life was...
[29:13] Bob Dobbs: Not accepting the ritual.
[29:15] Bob Dobbs: So remember they had program battles with other tribes,
[29:18] Bob Dobbs: supposedly,
[29:19] Bob Dobbs: right?
[29:20] Bob Dobbs: That was allowing themselves to go antisocial,
[29:28] Bob Dobbs: take the risk of exploring pain or something.
[29:31] Bob Dobbs: Now,
[29:31] Bob Dobbs: that's another point McLuhan said.
[29:32] Bob Dobbs: The big discovery of the 20th century was exploring pain.
[29:38] Bob Dobbs: So this exploring pain,
[29:41] Bob Dobbs: that's really mishandled by medicine.
[29:43] Bob Dobbs: and psychological cancelling.
[29:46] Bob Dobbs: There should be no stigma about it,
[29:48] Bob Dobbs: and there needs to be a more clear expression of...
[29:52] Bob Dobbs: Well,
[29:53] Bob Dobbs: a celebration of someone getting into pain.
[29:57] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.
[29:58] Cameron McEwen: But this is a very difficult topic,
[30:01] Cameron McEwen: right?
[30:01] Cameron McEwen: Because they,
[30:02] Cameron McEwen: I mean,
[30:04] Cameron McEwen: McLuhan is definitely right that,
[30:07] Cameron McEwen: you know,
[30:08] Cameron McEwen: the 20th century opened with
[30:12] Cameron McEwen: Freud's
[30:14] Cameron McEwen: Interpretation of Dreams,
[30:16] Cameron McEwen: 1900.
[30:17] Cameron McEwen: And there are all sorts of...
[30:21] Cameron McEwen: sorts of ways in which the 20th century went out of its way to look into pain.
[30:32] Cameron McEwen: But two of those ways were the First and Second World Wars.
[30:37] Cameron McEwen: So it's not something that can be just sort of thrown out as an interesting sort of hermeneutic.
[30:51] Cameron McEwen: It's a
[30:55] Cameron McEwen: 20th century as the world of death,
[31:03] Cameron McEwen: with hundreds of millions of people and whole societies ground in the dust.
[31:10] Cameron McEwen: It's a very difficult probing of pain.
[31:14] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[31:14] Bob Dobbs: so education is not necessarily war.
[31:16] Bob Dobbs: War is not education.
[31:19] Bob Dobbs: It is,
[31:19] Bob Dobbs: but...
[31:20] Bob Dobbs: there may be other ways to look at that.
[31:22] Bob Dobbs: Correct.
[31:23] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[31:24] Cameron McEwen: yeah,
[31:24] Cameron McEwen: absolutely.
[31:25] Cameron McEwen: Okay.
[31:26] Cameron McEwen: And
[31:27] Cameron McEwen: McLuhan was certainly aware when he threw out little sayings like that that there was more than one way to take them.
[31:35] Bob Dobbs: Yes.
[31:38] Bob Dobbs: So I say humans really want to get a break from being human.
[31:40] Bob Dobbs: Maybe that's the program battles between tribes.
[31:47] Bob Dobbs: When you sleep.
[31:48] Bob Dobbs: or think you sleep.
[31:49] Bob Dobbs: When you sleep or think you sleep,
[31:50] Bob Dobbs: you have to go to another place.
[31:52] Bob Dobbs: It's not pleasant staying stuck in this physical all of the time.
[31:56] Bob Dobbs: So you go to sleep,
[31:57] Bob Dobbs: and that takes you to another world,
[31:58] Bob Dobbs: another dream.
[31:59] Bob Dobbs: Cavell's proposing our saying,
[32:01] Bob Dobbs: technology will be our dream mechanism,
[32:04] Bob Dobbs: and it's a tragedy.
[32:05] Bob Dobbs: We go beyond ourselves,
[32:06] Bob Dobbs: and we get lost within ourselves.
[32:08] Bob Dobbs: It's the tragedy and ecstasy of media,
[32:10] Bob Dobbs: to quote
[32:12] Bob Dobbs: Cavell.
[32:14] Bob Dobbs: So then I gave a whole bunch of other quotes.
[32:18] Bob Dobbs: I have here,
[32:21] Bob Dobbs: so what is that,
[32:22] Bob Dobbs: bottom of 168?
[32:23] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[32:25] Bob Dobbs: For more Richard Cavell,
[32:28] Bob Dobbs: I gave a whole bunch of pages for the Android meme and the virtual.
[32:34] Bob Dobbs: And then his yearning for the human is AP over AM,
[32:37] Bob Dobbs: and I give particular pages.
[32:39] Bob Dobbs: So that's a thrifty way to give people more homework.
[32:44] Bob Dobbs: I think you need to read Cabell,
[32:46] Bob Dobbs: go through what he's saying.
[32:48] Bob Dobbs: and see clearly his advantages and his remediating McLuhan and how he fails at it.
[33:00] Bob Dobbs: So we come to 169 and I say the casual talk.
[33:10] Bob Dobbs: There are many more quotations that carry on with these themes of the human and technology.
[33:14] Bob Dobbs: I can't quote them all.
[33:15] Bob Dobbs: If you want to look them up,
[33:16] Bob Dobbs: they're all in that list for you,
[33:18] Bob Dobbs: the list just above.
[33:19] Bob Dobbs: The first horizontal list is the Android meme quotations.
[33:22] Bob Dobbs: It works through the virtual thinkers.
[33:25] Bob Dobbs: And the second horizontal list is the AP,
[33:27] Bob Dobbs: Anthropomorphic Physical,
[33:28] Bob Dobbs: over
[33:29] Bob Dobbs: Android meme.
[33:30] Bob Dobbs: AP is stronger in a sense than the virtual technology.
[33:34] Bob Dobbs: So we've been moving with Web 2.0,
[33:37] Bob Dobbs: which is still virtual,
[33:39] Bob Dobbs: to a feeling of being back on a human...
[33:46] Bob Dobbs: original state or original rawness.
[33:48] Bob Dobbs: Now,
[33:49] Bob Dobbs: that's why the nuclear war scenario gets retrieved,
[33:53] Bob Dobbs: which is retrieving the tribal thing I just was saying of having a program war,
[33:59] Bob Dobbs: but it's going to be global.
[34:02] Bob Dobbs: And probably the bacteriological and plague wars and the
[34:06] Bob Dobbs: COVID stuff and all that,
[34:07] Bob Dobbs: these are manufactured by somebody and sent out.
[34:12] Bob Dobbs: That is...
[34:15] Bob Dobbs: The ground of AP,
[34:18] Bob Dobbs: but it might be both ground and figure,
[34:20] Bob Dobbs: the ground in AP is stretching past the virtual.
[34:25] Bob Dobbs: The virtual is now pretty cliche.
[34:30] Bob Dobbs: It becomes cliche when it starts to become a headache for people.
[34:33] Bob Dobbs: So you have a lot of people saying,
[34:34] Bob Dobbs: oh my God,
[34:35] Bob Dobbs: this chip body is ruining our kids.
[34:37] Bob Dobbs: We've got to stop this,
[34:38] Bob Dobbs: you know.
[34:39] Bob Dobbs: And now they're worried about AI.
[34:41] Bob Dobbs: That's the ground of the endormine becoming figure.
[34:44] Bob Dobbs: Inside the AP ground and so people panic about the figure the Android meme or the chip body the virtual technology so
[34:52] Bob Dobbs: That's what we've been reaching into the last 15 years,
[34:56] Bob Dobbs: maybe.
[34:57] Bob Dobbs: I consider,
[34:58] Bob Dobbs: when I was giving you my biography recently,
[35:02] Bob Dobbs: I was walking around in New York City like St.
[35:05] Bob Dobbs: Augustine watching the collapse of the Roman Empire,
[35:07] Bob Dobbs: but it was way more multi-structural than that.
[35:11] Bob Dobbs: But I had a sense of walking around and not communicating and not making a big deal about being on the radio every week.
[35:21] Bob Dobbs: Just...
[35:22] Bob Dobbs: seeing the crack-up.
[35:24] Bob Dobbs: And of course,
[35:24] Bob Dobbs: the crack-up came with the 9-1-1.
[35:29] Bob Dobbs: I was right there for that.
[35:31] Bob Dobbs: So it was like I was walking around waiting,
[35:34] Bob Dobbs: waiting for something to happen.
[35:36] Bob Dobbs: And when I talked to
[35:40] Bob Dobbs: McLuhan through
[35:41] Bob Dobbs: Esterelka Kaplan,
[35:43] Bob Dobbs: whose husband formed Canada's
[35:45] Bob Dobbs: CIA, CSIS,
[35:48] Bob Dobbs: she was a friend of Carolyn's,
[35:49] Bob Dobbs: a patient.
[35:49] Bob Dobbs: And
[35:50] Bob Dobbs: We were with her after
[35:52] Bob Dobbs: 9-1-1 in Toronto,
[35:55] Bob Dobbs: and she had been a psychic medium back in the
[35:58] Bob Dobbs: 70s and was studied by
[36:01] Bob Dobbs: J.B. Rhine,
[36:01] Bob Dobbs: I think his name,
[36:02] Bob Dobbs: the famous psychic scientist at Duke
[36:06] Bob Dobbs: University.
[36:08] Bob Dobbs: McLuhan came through,
[36:09] Bob Dobbs: and McLuhan said to me and Nelson and Carolyn,
[36:15] Bob Dobbs: through her,
[36:17] Bob Dobbs: that anybody who
[36:19] Bob Dobbs: pretty perceptive what's going on could see 9-1-1 coming now we didn't get into much detail about what the hell how do you know that how what did you see uh i think i understand that more why he said that now but the um uh
[36:38] Cameron McEwen: yeah that's uh alex jones is talking about uh foreseeing yeah 9-1-1 as we speak i have a lot to say about that but not in this context um
[36:49] Bob Dobbs: A lot of corrections about that.
[36:51] Bob Dobbs: But anyways,
[36:52] Bob Dobbs: the...
[36:54] Bob Dobbs: But McLuhan says you could see it.
[36:57] Bob Dobbs: What was I going to say?
[36:57] Cameron McEwen: You were talking about walking around New York.
[37:10] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[37:10] Cameron McEwen: And you were talking to the media in Toronto.
[37:13] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[37:13] Bob Dobbs: the AP.
[37:13] Bob Dobbs: Like,
[37:13] Bob Dobbs: you know,
[37:13] Bob Dobbs: Baudrillard wrote about the Twin Towers in the
[37:16] Bob Dobbs: 70s. And then when...
[37:18] Bob Dobbs: When he talked about 9-1-1,
[37:20] Bob Dobbs: you know,
[37:20] Bob Dobbs: 20 years later,
[37:22] Bob Dobbs: maybe 22 years later,
[37:24] Bob Dobbs: he wrote a book on how the
[37:26] Bob Dobbs: 9-1-1, the buildings,
[37:28] Bob Dobbs: committed suicide.
[37:29] Bob Dobbs: So he's treating them as alive.
[37:31] Bob Dobbs: Now that's within the Android meme phase.
[37:34] Bob Dobbs: And he popularized the technology coming alive.
[37:38] Bob Dobbs: He had different,
[37:38] Bob Dobbs: you know,
[37:39] Bob Dobbs: mundane terms for it,
[37:40] Bob Dobbs: like the real or the super real,
[37:42] Bob Dobbs: things like that.
[37:43] Bob Dobbs: But he was building on McLuhan.
[37:47] Bob Dobbs: So he saw some freakout by the Android meme there,
[37:52] Bob Dobbs: and that means we're in the AP.
[37:54] Bob Dobbs: So yeah,
[37:55] Bob Dobbs: I'm back to,
[37:56] Bob Dobbs: I'm walking around,
[37:57] Bob Dobbs: I'm looking at the AP surfacing,
[37:59] Bob Dobbs: and it surfaced as 911,
[38:03] Bob Dobbs: and McLuhan helped me see that by his statement that you could see that it came out of the evolution of technologies,
[38:11] Bob Dobbs: which you might find a little too chronological,
[38:13] Bob Dobbs: but...
[38:14] Bob Dobbs: That's an ad.
[38:14] Bob Dobbs: You got to include the chronological,
[38:16] Bob Dobbs: even though it's quote wrong.
[38:17] Bob Dobbs: You got to include the wrong.
[38:20] Bob Dobbs: So so the AP.
[38:24] Bob Dobbs: Now,
[38:24] Bob Dobbs: here's what was amazing on.
[38:27] Cameron McEwen: That's one of your best statements ever.
[38:29] Cameron McEwen: But good to include the wrong.
[38:32] Cameron McEwen: Very good.
[38:33] Bob Dobbs: Well,
[38:33] Bob Dobbs: I'm just catching up to you on that point,
[38:35] Bob Dobbs: right?
[38:39] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[38:39] Bob Dobbs: that's what Cluid had it perfect.
[38:41] Bob Dobbs: You think my whole fallacy is wrong.
[38:43] Bob Dobbs: He's telling the guy,
[38:44] Bob Dobbs: my fallacy has part of the situation.
[38:47] Bob Dobbs: Or another time in the seminars,
[38:49] Bob Dobbs: he said,
[38:50] Bob Dobbs: half-truth.
[38:51] Bob Dobbs: You say my stuff is a half-truth?
[38:52] Bob Dobbs: That's a lot of truth for most people.
[38:56] Bob Dobbs: And then,
[38:56] Bob Dobbs: when I'm walking around,
[38:58] Bob Dobbs: I think I told you this,
[39:00] Bob Dobbs: I was up there on July 4th,
[39:01] Bob Dobbs: the American holiday,
[39:04] Bob Dobbs: watching the tall ships come in.
[39:06] Bob Dobbs: And we were up on the top floor,
[39:08] Bob Dobbs: I don't know which building it was.
[39:12] Bob Dobbs: And while I was up there,
[39:12] Bob Dobbs: all of a sudden I heard McLuhan talking.
[39:14] Bob Dobbs: There was some broadcasting coming out,
[39:16] Bob Dobbs: you know,
[39:17] Bob Dobbs: onto the floor where people were walking around up at the top.
[39:22] Bob Dobbs: And here's what I heard McLuhan say.
[39:25] Bob Dobbs: Somebody said,
[39:25] Bob Dobbs: well,
[39:25] Bob Dobbs: okay,
[39:26] Bob Dobbs: we've got another 100 years.
[39:28] Bob Dobbs: What's coming,
[39:29] Bob Dobbs: Mr.
[39:29] Bob Dobbs: McLuhan?
[39:31] Bob Dobbs: He says,
[39:31] Bob Dobbs: one word,
[39:32] Bob Dobbs: apocalypse.
[39:34] Bob Dobbs: And I was there,
[39:36] Bob Dobbs: and this is symbolic,
[39:37] Bob Dobbs: I was there to hear that.
[39:38] Bob Dobbs: The only guy to hear it,
[39:40] Bob Dobbs: the only one to notice it.
[39:41] Bob Dobbs: Nobody else fucking stopped and said,
[39:42] Bob Dobbs: hey,
[39:43] Bob Dobbs: well,
[39:43] Bob Dobbs: look what that guy said.
[39:44] Bob Dobbs: They weren't even listening to him.
[39:45] Bob Dobbs: But,
[39:45] Bob Dobbs: you know,
[39:46] Bob Dobbs: I wasn't listening until I recognized the voice.
[39:48] Bob Dobbs: And so I listened,
[39:49] Bob Dobbs: caught that,
[39:50] Bob Dobbs: and that's really amazing.
[39:52] Bob Dobbs: I was standing where the apocalypse was going to be,
[39:54] Bob Dobbs: and I heard him say it.
[39:55] Bob Dobbs: Now that's a passing of the torch to me,
[39:57] Bob Dobbs: Cameron.
[40:00] Cameron McEwen: Didn't you say before that that was in New York?
[40:03] Cameron McEwen: Are you saying now it was in Toronto?
[40:06] Bob Dobbs: Oh,
[40:06] Bob Dobbs: no,
[40:06] Bob Dobbs: no.
[40:07] Bob Dobbs: I was on the top of the World Trade Center.
[40:09] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[40:10] Cameron McEwen: okay.
[40:10] Cameron McEwen: So it was New York.
[40:11] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[40:12] Bob Dobbs: if I said
[40:13] Bob Dobbs: CN Tower,
[40:13] Bob Dobbs: I didn't mean that.
[40:15] Bob Dobbs: I think I said I didn't know which tower I was on.
[40:18] Bob Dobbs: I don't remember which one it was because I'd only been up there maybe once before.
[40:25] Bob Dobbs: So I didn't know it that well,
[40:26] Bob Dobbs: but I think it's incredible that I was there.
[40:29] Bob Dobbs: and heard him say what was coming and then i get to meet a woman who can channel McLuhan who kind of says yeah i could see it coming and no one saw that imagery when he said apocalypse you know the imagery of that building so that
[40:44] Bob Dobbs: that's a major uh figure ground merger Bob Dobbs with with reality there with the Android meme it's quite a story right you have to admit that's pretty deep yeah
[40:56] Bob Dobbs: that the most active McLuhan archivist heard McLuhan's most important statement,
[41:02] Bob Dobbs: in the right place.
[41:04] Bob Dobbs: Tremendous.
[41:05] Bob Dobbs: That's art.
[41:05] Bob Dobbs: That's art.
[41:07] Bob Dobbs: My life led me to that point.
[41:08] Bob Dobbs: That's art.
[41:10] Bob Dobbs: That's the art of performance of the five bodies being in the right place at the right time.
[41:18] Cameron McEwen: Well,
[41:18] Cameron McEwen: 9-11 is the collapse of the Gutenberg Galaxy.
[41:22] Bob Dobbs: Yes.
[41:24] Bob Dobbs: And maybe the electronic,
[41:25] Bob Dobbs: the communication world.
[41:27] Bob Dobbs: Because remember,
[41:28] Bob Dobbs: who did it,
[41:29] Bob Dobbs: supposedly?
[41:29] Bob Dobbs: A bunch of cavemen who weren't talking to anybody.
[41:36] Bob Dobbs: There's your image of,
[41:37] Bob Dobbs: you know,
[41:38] Bob Dobbs: non-social.
[41:40] Cameron McEwen: Sure.
[41:41] Cameron McEwen: Anytime the
[41:42] Cameron McEwen: Gutenberg Galaxy and the electric environment are separated,
[41:46] Cameron McEwen: you're back in Gutenberg.
[41:49] Bob Dobbs: So,
[41:50] Bob Dobbs: you're not separating them.
[41:51] Bob Dobbs: But you do it when you use the words,
[41:54] Bob Dobbs: when you name it.
[41:56] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[41:56] Cameron McEwen: it's like...
[41:59] Bob Dobbs: It's your fallacy.
[42:01] Bob Dobbs: Correct.
[42:02] Bob Dobbs: You insist on your fallacy.
[42:04] Cameron McEwen: You always need them both.
[42:06] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[42:07] Bob Dobbs: yeah.
[42:07] Bob Dobbs: Now,
[42:07] Bob Dobbs: I take that for granted and go for one side.
[42:12] Bob Dobbs: My fallacy will exclude the other,
[42:15] Bob Dobbs: the thing that makes it fallacy,
[42:16] Bob Dobbs: just to pretend I'm certain or just to heighten up some kind of...
[42:21] Bob Dobbs: point at sea that you should pay attention to.
[42:23] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[42:24] Cameron McEwen: yeah.
[42:25] Cameron McEwen: So you're wearing an AP mask.
[42:27] Bob Dobbs: Yes,
[42:27] Bob Dobbs: yeah.
[42:28] Bob Dobbs: So now,
[42:32] Bob Dobbs: when I say AP is stronger in a sense of virtual technology,
[42:37] Bob Dobbs: the sound of Bin Laden is stronger than the whole structure of the surveillance around the World Trade Centers and the White House or the Pentagon.
[42:48] Bob Dobbs: But it was another.
[42:49] Bob Dobbs: Remember,
[42:49] Bob Dobbs: the building that got hit was the tower for the five,
[42:56] Bob Dobbs: for the TV and stuff,
[42:58] Bob Dobbs: for the five boroughs.
[43:00] Bob Dobbs: And the head of our
[43:04] Bob Dobbs: Phoenix weight group,
[43:05] Bob Dobbs: Murray Gross,
[43:07] Bob Dobbs: he came on.
[43:08] Bob Dobbs: I think he came on to
[43:10] Bob Dobbs: Montgomery's list for a minute.
[43:12] Bob Dobbs: I got him on there.
[43:12] Bob Dobbs: I was just getting to know him and the Phoenix weight group.
[43:15] Bob Dobbs: And he came on and he...
[43:17] Bob Dobbs: People were talking about the Taliban in Afghanistan or wherever they were running the show,
[43:23] Bob Dobbs: you know,
[43:23] Bob Dobbs: doing TV or,
[43:25] Bob Dobbs: no,
[43:25] Bob Dobbs: stopping TV,
[43:26] Bob Dobbs: I think.
[43:27] Bob Dobbs: And
[43:28] Bob Dobbs: Murray came,
[43:28] Bob Dobbs: whatever you said,
[43:30] Bob Dobbs: probably you probably said something.
[43:32] Bob Dobbs: He said,
[43:32] Bob Dobbs: you're a damn fucking ridiculous.
[43:34] Bob Dobbs: He did not like how we talked about this situation in McLuhan terms.
[43:38] Bob Dobbs: It took him a long time to get over that because he eventually came around to see the McLuhan level in Finnegans Wake.
[43:44] Bob Dobbs: But anyways...
[43:47] Bob Dobbs: Okay,
[43:47] Bob Dobbs: so he,
[43:51] Bob Dobbs: in there somewhere,
[43:52] Bob Dobbs: I think of that because the
[43:59] Bob Dobbs: Taliban bombed the TV tower because they wanted to,
[44:04] Bob Dobbs: as media colleges,
[44:06] Bob Dobbs: to ban television.
[44:08] Bob Dobbs: The telly,
[44:09] Bob Dobbs: that's the British term for television.
[44:10] Bob Dobbs: The telly ban.
[44:11] Bob Dobbs: It's right in the word of what they were.
[44:13] Bob Dobbs: They were the tribe of media colleges in the caves.
[44:16] Bob Dobbs: Trying to knock out the Android meme,
[44:18] Bob Dobbs: which they called Telly.
[44:19] Bob Dobbs: They wanted to ban it.
[44:22] Cameron McEwen: That's a nice image.
[44:24] Bob Dobbs: Thank you.
[44:26] Bob Dobbs: I like it,
[44:27] Bob Dobbs: too.
[44:27] Bob Dobbs: So
[44:29] Bob Dobbs: I think
[44:30] Bob Dobbs: Murray Gross said something that triggered off that idea once the bombing happened.
[44:35] Bob Dobbs: But I can't remember.
[44:36] Bob Dobbs: Okay,
[44:37] Bob Dobbs: so now we get to Zingrone,
[44:39] Bob Dobbs: who is writing interesting stuff.
[44:41] Bob Dobbs: The book comes out in 2001 that nobody knows.
[44:46] Bob Dobbs: Nobody read his book until years later.
[44:48] Bob Dobbs: I didn't read his book until a few months ago.
[44:52] Bob Dobbs: But look,
[44:53] Bob Dobbs: he's taking on the dreaded world in McLuhan land of Gnosticism.
[44:57] Bob Dobbs: So let's see what he says here.
[45:03] Bob Dobbs: The way of telegnosis,
[45:04] Bob Dobbs: that's his closing chapter,
[45:06] Bob Dobbs: I think.
[45:08] Bob Dobbs: So he says,
[45:09] Bob Dobbs: because of electric technology,
[45:10] Bob Dobbs: we have come to a rare millennial shift toward a fifth dimension of awareness that has all the characteristics of Gnosticism.
[45:18] Bob Dobbs: Now,
[45:18] Bob Dobbs: the fifth dimension,
[45:20] Bob Dobbs: Frank had,
[45:22] Bob Dobbs: in
[45:23] Bob Dobbs: 91 it was published,
[45:25] Bob Dobbs: he wrote about the Pentad.
[45:27] Bob Dobbs: He developed a way to go beyond the tetrad,
[45:29] Bob Dobbs: which Eric rejected,
[45:31] Bob Dobbs: but he says Marshall accepted in a way.
[45:35] Bob Dobbs: Okay,
[45:35] Bob Dobbs: so now he's emphasizing the fifth dimension.
[45:38] Bob Dobbs: The search for underlying structures is the only way to make sense of the electric world.
[45:42] Bob Dobbs: Gnosis is hidden knowledge,
[45:43] Bob Dobbs: that is,
[45:44] Bob Dobbs: knowledge of the hidden ground.
[45:47] Bob Dobbs: Before we read any more,
[45:48] Bob Dobbs: we're probably going to find Gutenberg in here,
[45:50] Bob Dobbs: right?
[45:52] Bob Dobbs: I see Gnosticism as an effect of the phonetic alphabet.
[45:57] Cameron McEwen: Any time you try to get to a definition of a word that holds,
[46:04] Cameron McEwen: you're in the Gutenberg Galaxy.
[46:05] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[46:07] Bob Dobbs: So as an academic,
[46:08] Bob Dobbs: he had not thrown that off.
[46:09] Bob Dobbs: He made some brave moves towards it.
[46:12] Bob Dobbs: Anyway,
[46:13] Bob Dobbs: so he says,
[46:13] Bob Dobbs: today we see not so much an unfolding of Darwinian reality,
[46:17] Bob Dobbs: that's good,
[46:18] Bob Dobbs: as an acceleration of de Chardin'
[46:20] Bob Dobbs: evolution of awareness.
[46:21] Bob Dobbs: Good.
[46:22] Bob Dobbs: Progressive extensions of mind and soul through improvements in the transmission of knowledge.
[46:27] Bob Dobbs: That's cool.
[46:28] Bob Dobbs: The global mindset...
[46:29] Cameron McEwen: Wait,
[46:30] Cameron McEwen: wait,
[46:31] Cameron McEwen: wait.
[46:31] Cameron McEwen: I don't think that's cool.
[46:32] Cameron McEwen: It's the progressive extensions of mind and soul through improvements in the transmission of knowledge.
[46:40] Cameron McEwen: I mean,
[46:40] Cameron McEwen: that's nonsense,
[46:41] Cameron McEwen: right?
[46:44] Cameron McEwen: It's going the other way.
[46:46] Cameron McEwen: Well,
[46:46] Bob Dobbs: I knew I'd get your goat by saying,
[46:48] Bob Dobbs: what a great statement.
[46:49] Bob Dobbs: I got you.
[46:53] Bob Dobbs: But,
[46:53] Bob Dobbs: yeah,
[46:54] Bob Dobbs: they're pretty cranky old words,
[46:57] Bob Dobbs: mind and soul.
[47:00] Cameron McEwen: And progressive improvements.
[47:03] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[47:05] Cameron McEwen: Ridiculous.
[47:05] Bob Dobbs: Well,
[47:06] Bob Dobbs: see,
[47:06] Bob Dobbs: this is the problem.
[47:07] Bob Dobbs: You start writing,
[47:08] Bob Dobbs: you're in trouble.
[47:09] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.
[47:10] Bob Dobbs: That's why you've got to have you.
[47:12] Bob Dobbs: Everybody should start every article,
[47:14] Bob Dobbs: whatever they write,
[47:15] Bob Dobbs: whatever medium,
[47:16] Bob Dobbs: they need to start off with a quote from Finnegans Wake to show that they know.
[47:20] Bob Dobbs: See,
[47:20] Bob Dobbs: that's the...
[47:20] Bob Dobbs: That's the new Masonic code.
[47:22] Bob Dobbs: That's the handshake.
[47:24] Bob Dobbs: I know
[47:25] Bob Dobbs: Finnegans Wake is all that we need to know,
[47:27] Bob Dobbs: and so he acknowledged it by quoting something in it.
[47:29] Bob Dobbs: No matter what you write.
[47:30] Bob Dobbs: And McLuhan did that.
[47:33] Bob Dobbs: The global mindset is the materialization of the collective unconscious through technology.
[47:41] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[47:41] Bob Dobbs: see,
[47:41] Bob Dobbs: it's creaky.
[47:43] Bob Dobbs: It's old.
[47:44] Bob Dobbs: The global mindset.
[47:45] Bob Dobbs: I mean,
[47:45] Bob Dobbs: I appreciate what he's trying to do.
[47:47] Bob Dobbs: He's trying to get out of the Catholic bias.
[47:50] Bob Dobbs: which would to him be the Gutenberg,
[47:51] Bob Dobbs: and get into what he might consider the pre-Gutenberg,
[47:54] Bob Dobbs: the Gnostic,
[47:54] Bob Dobbs: but that's still an extension of the alphabetic,
[47:59] Bob Dobbs: I think.
[47:59] Bob Dobbs: The global mindset is the materialization of the collective unconscious through technology.
[48:04] Bob Dobbs: So he's still stuck in the chemical body.
[48:07] Bob Dobbs: And maybe the astral body,
[48:10] Bob Dobbs: which is part of first nature,
[48:13] Bob Dobbs: the mind,
[48:14] Bob Dobbs: the soul,
[48:16] Bob Dobbs: is other than just physical.
[48:18] Cameron McEwen: But isn't?
[48:20] Cameron McEwen: Isn't the
[48:21] Cameron McEwen: AM exactly what he says there?
[48:23] Cameron McEwen: Isn't it the global mindset as the materialization of the collective unconscious through technology?
[48:29] Cameron McEwen: Isn't that what the AM is?
[48:31] Bob Dobbs: Yes,
[48:31] Bob Dobbs: but you cannot use those words to describe it.
[48:34] Bob Dobbs: Those words are too Gutenberg,
[48:36] Bob Dobbs: too old.
[48:37] Bob Dobbs: You need new words,
[48:40] Bob Dobbs: which is actually you have to come up with five bodies.
[48:44] Bob Dobbs: You can't.
[48:45] Bob Dobbs: He's still operating with one body.
[48:50] Cameron McEwen: Sure.
[48:50] Cameron McEwen: I'm not endorsing this definition of VAM.
[48:57] Bob Dobbs: All I'm doing is pointing out that.
[48:59] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[49:00] Bob Dobbs: and so is Cavell.
[49:01] Bob Dobbs: Everybody's,
[49:02] Bob Dobbs: you know,
[49:02] Bob Dobbs: the postmodern and Baudrillardian guys are wrestling with the Android meme,
[49:06] Bob Dobbs: what they call virtual reality or whatever other terms we're into,
[49:11] Bob Dobbs: even the post-human.
[49:12] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[49:12] Bob Dobbs: okay,
[49:13] Bob Dobbs: on that level,
[49:13] Bob Dobbs: yes,
[49:14] Bob Dobbs: everybody's dealing with the Android meme,
[49:15] Bob Dobbs: and I'm trying to go past that here.
[49:18] Cameron McEwen: Okay.
[49:20] Bob Dobbs: The subliminal out-of-awareness part of thought is burgeoning into reality.
[49:25] Bob Dobbs: See,
[49:26] Bob Dobbs: bad words.
[49:27] Bob Dobbs: Burgeoning into reality through media use.
[49:30] Bob Dobbs: This was easy to ignore and useful,
[49:33] Bob Dobbs: though,
[49:35] Bob Dobbs: because it's a basic description for the average awareness of the Android meme in easily digestible terms.
[49:42] Bob Dobbs: The subliminal out-of-awareness part of thought is burgeoning into reality through media use.
[49:47] Bob Dobbs: You know,
[49:47] Bob Dobbs: it's like McLuhan said,
[49:48] Bob Dobbs: people think if you quote somebody,
[49:50] Bob Dobbs: you're all for them.
[49:51] Bob Dobbs: I'm not for any of my quotes that I'm using.
[49:54] Cameron McEwen: All right,
[49:54] Cameron McEwen: that's good.
[49:56] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[49:57] Bob Dobbs: We will teach our children how to ask the most useful and involving questions and give up the attempt to restrict their intelligence by opposing obsolescence answers on them.
[50:08] Bob Dobbs: The mistake there is that why would you hang around for your children?
[50:12] Bob Dobbs: Why would your children hang around and ask you questions?
[50:15] Bob Dobbs: See,
[50:15] Bob Dobbs: you've still got the family structure.
[50:16] Bob Dobbs: You've still got the schooling going on.
[50:19] Bob Dobbs: And that's what McLuhan was answering to Illich was,
[50:21] Bob Dobbs: we keep the schools going,
[50:22] Bob Dobbs: but we put the questions in there,
[50:24] Bob Dobbs: not the answers.
[50:26] Bob Dobbs: So that's
[50:27] Bob Dobbs: Frank catching up to the 1970 McLuhan.
[50:31] Bob Dobbs: That's not necessarily 1977 McLuhan.
[50:35] Bob Dobbs: Now,
[50:35] Bob Dobbs: tradition and traditional values will be perceived as that which is eternally new.
[50:40] Bob Dobbs: The oldest things are the newest things.
[50:44] Bob Dobbs: Cliches.
[50:45] Bob Dobbs: Discovery of origins shall dominate all attempts to educate.
[50:48] Bob Dobbs: Now,
[50:48] Bob Dobbs: isn't that what you kind of like,
[50:51] Bob Dobbs: looking at origins?
[50:52] Cameron McEwen: Yes,
[50:53] Cameron McEwen: definitely.
[50:54] Bob Dobbs: Right.
[50:55] Bob Dobbs: You would accept that sentence.
[50:56] Bob Dobbs: Discovery of origins shall dominate all attempts to educate.
[51:01] Bob Dobbs: Yes,
[51:01] Bob Dobbs: but our image of what's original or the origins would have to change because you won't know whether you found the origins or not because there's no time.
[51:14] Cameron McEwen: The key there is that origins are questionable and questioning.
[51:21] Bob Dobbs: Yes.
[51:21] Cameron McEwen: So there's no such thing.
[51:22] Cameron McEwen: thing as discovery of origins that gets beyond questionability.
[51:28] Bob Dobbs: There's no question,
[51:30] Bob Dobbs: say it again,
[51:31] Bob Dobbs: no question.
[51:33] Cameron McEwen: There's no such thing as the,
[51:35] Cameron McEwen: he says here,
[51:35] Cameron McEwen: discovery of origins.
[51:37] Cameron McEwen: And I say origins are questionable and questioning.
[51:42] Cameron McEwen: So there's no such thing as discovery of origins that gets beyond questionability.
[51:49] Bob Dobbs: Right.
[51:49] Cameron McEwen: Questionability is original.
[51:52] Bob Dobbs: Right.
[51:54] Cameron McEwen: Because origin is always already plural,
[51:59] Cameron McEwen: questionability is built into origin.
[52:04] Bob Dobbs: So you see where
[52:07] Bob Dobbs: Frank, if you read the book,
[52:08] Bob Dobbs: you see that his criticism of Madison Avenue McLuhan is relevant.
[52:14] Bob Dobbs: But the book never becomes a hit or takes off because it's limited to nouns and this kind of statement.
[52:22] Bob Dobbs: He still got the Gutenberg.
[52:24] Bob Dobbs: He didn't go far enough to get to warrant attention,
[52:29] Bob Dobbs: even though within McLuhanism,
[52:31] Bob Dobbs: he's useful for people who haven't kept up on the changes in McLuhan and are still stuck with the Global Village and the extensions of man kind of talk,
[52:43] Bob Dobbs: which I call the Madison Avenue version.
[52:46] Cameron McEwen: I know nothing about this book.
[52:47] Cameron McEwen: Do you know where it was published?
[52:51] Bob Dobbs: Some Canadian publisher.
[52:53] Cameron McEwen: A Canadian,
[52:54] Cameron McEwen: okay.
[52:54] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.
[52:54] Cameron McEwen: That makes sense,
[52:55] Cameron McEwen: yeah.
[52:56] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[52:56] Bob Dobbs: and he thanks a few people,
[52:59] Bob Dobbs: and I found out,
[53:00] Bob Dobbs: I didn't know them,
[53:01] Bob Dobbs: but I later found out that they were stalwarts of the Toronto literary scene,
[53:06] Bob Dobbs: maybe on the Barry Callaghan level.
[53:09] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.
[53:10] Bob Dobbs: The B team of
[53:12] Bob Dobbs: Toronto Publishing,
[53:13] Bob Dobbs: I think,
[53:14] Bob Dobbs: is,
[53:15] Bob Dobbs: Frank got their attention,
[53:17] Bob Dobbs: a few of them.
[53:19] Bob Dobbs: you
[53:20] Bob Dobbs: So this is a good example.
[53:23] Bob Dobbs: I'm using a quote that for people who are into Gnosticism,
[53:27] Bob Dobbs: literally,
[53:28] Bob Dobbs: might find it interesting.
[53:29] Bob Dobbs: What is telegnosis?
[53:30] Bob Dobbs: Okay,
[53:31] Bob Dobbs: so that's a good probing of their assumptions.
[53:34] Bob Dobbs: But it is a failed statement completely and explains why Frank never got anywhere with the book.
[53:39] Bob Dobbs: It's just not powerful enough.
[53:42] Bob Dobbs: And he's still,
[53:43] Bob Dobbs: like you say,
[53:45] Bob Dobbs: looking for the univocal almost.
[53:48] Bob Dobbs: Still stuck in the univocal,
[53:51] Bob Dobbs: even though he was probably a reader of Finnegans Wake.
[53:56] Bob Dobbs: But he didn't know how to use it,
[53:58] Bob Dobbs: maybe.
[53:59] Bob Dobbs: So that would be the disservice of being a professor.
[54:03] Bob Dobbs: You have to hold yourself back for your students.
[54:06] Bob Dobbs: And you live that role every day.
[54:09] Bob Dobbs: It becomes a comfortable habit.
[54:12] Bob Dobbs: And
[54:13] Bob Dobbs: I often saw...
[54:14] Cameron McEwen: Not only for your students,
[54:15] Cameron McEwen: for yourself.
[54:16] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[54:17] Cameron McEwen: That's right.
[54:19] Cameron McEwen: How are you going to be a professor going to committee meetings and stuff if you don't have some sort of univocal hat on?
[54:32] Bob Dobbs: That's right.
[54:33] Bob Dobbs: And McLuhan always was a troublemaker in that scene,
[54:36] Bob Dobbs: as much as he could be.
[54:38] Bob Dobbs: I mean,
[54:39] Bob Dobbs: they even tried to take away,
[54:40] Bob Dobbs: for those who don't know,
[54:41] Bob Dobbs: they even tried to take away his tenure in the
[54:43] Bob Dobbs: 70s, which you can't do.
[54:45] Bob Dobbs: But they tried it.
[54:47] Bob Dobbs: Some of them are so bothered by him,
[54:49] Bob Dobbs: but it's to his credit he had that level of irresponsibility going on.
[54:54] Bob Dobbs: or what they thought was irresponsible.
[54:57] Bob Dobbs: They told their students,
[54:58] Bob Dobbs: do not do a PhD under McLuhan.
[55:00] Bob Dobbs: Here's a guy who's going to be like the greatest Canadian of the last 50 years,
[55:04] Bob Dobbs: second half 20th century,
[55:06] Bob Dobbs: and he is considered a retard by the idiot,
[55:11] Bob Dobbs: well-adjusted Gutenbergians.
[55:16] Bob Dobbs: So the chip environment...
[55:18] Bob Dobbs: subsumed all analog media while giving humans the feeling slash experience of being bigger than all the media.
[55:24] Bob Dobbs: Now,
[55:25] Bob Dobbs: I use the Thiel term,
[55:29] Bob Dobbs: co-anesthesia,
[55:30] Bob Dobbs: for that trend.
[55:32] Bob Dobbs: The chip environment subsumed all analog media,
[55:34] Bob Dobbs: that's a cliche,
[55:35] Bob Dobbs: while giving humans the feeling slash experience of being bigger than all the media.
[55:41] Bob Dobbs: I don't think people think of themselves as bigger than the media.
[55:43] Bob Dobbs: They think they're up there.
[55:45] Bob Dobbs: David's fighting Goliath.
[55:46] Bob Dobbs: But once you point this out to them,
[55:48] Bob Dobbs: they say,
[55:48] Bob Dobbs: yeah,
[55:48] Bob Dobbs: I'm bigger than the media.
[55:50] Bob Dobbs: They're actually,
[55:50] Bob Dobbs: that's what gives them the guts to go out and be these ignorant bloggers,
[55:54] Bob Dobbs: you know.
[55:55] Bob Dobbs: They don't know.
[55:56] Bob Dobbs: Their unconscious is telling them,
[55:57] Bob Dobbs: you're bigger than the media.
[55:58] Bob Dobbs: You can take on
[55:59] Bob Dobbs: Wolf Blitzer and any other major media guy.
[56:04] Bob Dobbs: So this is why everybody thinking of themselves as analog media started to frantically monitor their black mirrors and constantly text.
[56:11] Bob Dobbs: That's their cell phones.
[56:13] Bob Dobbs: And constantly texted to see if there were any others out there,
[56:16] Bob Dobbs: nanocommunities.
[56:19] Bob Dobbs: So,
[56:22] Bob Dobbs: yes,
[56:22] Bob Dobbs: see,
[56:22] Bob Dobbs: they're looking for the AP.
[56:25] Bob Dobbs: They're looking for the chemical body in the analog.
[56:29] Bob Dobbs: They're given the chip body,
[56:31] Bob Dobbs: and they can start communicating,
[56:32] Bob Dobbs: but they're looking for chemical bodies to mingle with and maybe meet up with or have community with.
[56:39] Bob Dobbs: They're still thinking of themselves,
[56:40] Bob Dobbs: you could say,
[56:41] Bob Dobbs: as Gutenbergians.
[56:44] Bob Dobbs: So that leads to the anxiety of constantly looking and searching for something that you think will give you comfort of sociality.
[56:51] Bob Dobbs: And of course the overall effect of the chip body was it made everybody friendless.
[56:58] Bob Dobbs: It didn't work on the analog level.
[57:00] Bob Dobbs: This is when the millennials started to favor the use of the word meme and not the old terms AI or virtuality to describe their experience of the content of their chip bodies.
[57:10] Bob Dobbs: Now,
[57:10] Bob Dobbs: we could say AI has rushed back the last couple of years.
[57:14] Bob Dobbs: What would that be?
[57:15] Bob Dobbs: If the meme dominated,
[57:18] Bob Dobbs: then you push the meme to extremes,
[57:19] Bob Dobbs: so that's a flip into AI.
[57:22] Bob Dobbs: So you retrieve the AI.
[57:24] Cameron McEwen: That's just the tide going in and out.
[57:26] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[57:27] Bob Dobbs: okay.
[57:29] Bob Dobbs: I might have more to say about it if I think more about it,
[57:31] Bob Dobbs: but the AI.
[57:34] Cameron McEwen: Maybe you thought more about it in the blue.
[57:38] Bob Dobbs: Yes.
[57:39] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[57:39] Bob Dobbs: let's see what I say first.
[57:40] Bob Dobbs: before I make a statement here.
[57:42] Bob Dobbs: If you take the beginning of this in 1990,
[57:45] Bob Dobbs: you had people talking about virtual reality.
[57:47] Bob Dobbs: I remember that sort of popped out about 1990.
[57:50] Bob Dobbs: And people speaking already about artificial intelligence in the 80s.
[57:54] Bob Dobbs: I sneak up at the end of the 90s with the phrase Android meme.
[57:58] Bob Dobbs: I'm saying my phrase became the preferred grunt of the millennials because if you notice,
[58:03] Bob Dobbs: they're always talking about memes.
[58:05] Bob Dobbs: Everything is a meme.
[58:06] Bob Dobbs: They don't talk about virtual realities or artificial intelligence.
[58:09] Bob Dobbs: Perhaps when they're in the...
[58:11] Bob Dobbs: I'll just stop here.
[58:13] Bob Dobbs: This AI panic is just the paranoia wing of the Android meme as art form,
[58:18] Bob Dobbs: or retrieved.
[58:19] Bob Dobbs: Maybe that's what's going on in here.
[58:21] Bob Dobbs: Or ecstasy,
[58:23] Bob Dobbs: or hysteria.
[58:24] Bob Dobbs: Any one of those conditions is what's retrieved by the AP.
[58:30] Bob Dobbs: So yeah,
[58:31] Bob Dobbs: the AI had to be retrieved as an echo of the
[58:36] Bob Dobbs: Android meme.
[58:37] Bob Dobbs: But the meme was subsiding.
[58:39] Bob Dobbs: So they bring back AI to give content for their texting or to give emotion to it,
[58:48] Bob Dobbs: which is AP.
[58:49] Bob Dobbs: Perhaps when they're in the university,
[58:51] Bob Dobbs: inside the university's literate walls,
[58:52] Bob Dobbs: the millennials,
[58:53] Bob Dobbs: they might back off on being so cavalier and say it properly.
[58:57] Bob Dobbs: But on the street,
[58:58] Bob Dobbs: it's all meme talk.
[59:00] Bob Dobbs: All through classes,
[59:01] Bob Dobbs: they talk about memes and they spread memes.
[59:03] Bob Dobbs: As Arthur Kroker wrote,
[59:04] Bob Dobbs: quote,
[59:04] Bob Dobbs: they're Android processors.
[59:07] Bob Dobbs: He wrote that in...
[59:09] Bob Dobbs: early 90s when it was early books they might as well just be robots so they're robots with the word meme so that's instant collective consciousness as art form or as nostalgia um
[59:25] Bob Dobbs: that's what i say that that's um would i just say uh collective consciousness robotic conscious robotism putting on the robotism because actually
[59:37] Bob Dobbs: The AP,
[59:38] Bob Dobbs: or the human scale,
[59:39] Bob Dobbs: brings back the spontaneity of the human scale.
[59:44] Bob Dobbs: So that's what people are afraid of,
[59:45] Bob Dobbs: the spontaneity of the AP ground before the tech body.
[59:54] Bob Dobbs: Tech Body is going to do something different.
[59:57] Bob Dobbs: Oh,
[59:57] Bob Dobbs: we've got a chart here.
[59:58] Bob Dobbs: We go to the top of 171.
[1:00:03] Bob Dobbs: Read this out to me and talk about it because it's a review.
[1:00:11] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[1:00:11] Cameron McEwen: so it's a review,
[1:00:12] Cameron McEwen: but it's a chronological review.
[1:00:15] Cameron McEwen: So from my point of view,
[1:00:18] Cameron McEwen: it's how you can get to...
[1:00:24] Cameron McEwen: dynamism in a chronological way.
[1:00:31] Bob Dobbs: You're asking me how to do that?
[1:00:33] Cameron McEwen: No,
[1:00:33] Cameron McEwen: I'm saying the list here,
[1:00:39] Cameron McEwen: the four things,
[1:00:41] Cameron McEwen: are put in chronological terms.
[1:00:45] Cameron McEwen: 1840 to 1960,
[1:00:48] Cameron McEwen: 1960 to 2000,
[1:00:50] Cameron McEwen: 2000 to 2006,
[1:00:52] Cameron McEwen: 2007 onwards.
[1:00:55] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[1:00:55] Bob Dobbs: because they are perceptual faces that people lived and felt.
[1:00:59] Bob Dobbs: 1960-2000 is different from 1840 and 1960.
[1:01:04] Bob Dobbs: I'm dealing with those.
[1:01:05] Bob Dobbs: This is the mood mud,
[1:01:07] Bob Dobbs: to quote Finnegans Wake and McLuhan.
[1:01:09] Bob Dobbs: The mood mud,
[1:01:10] Bob Dobbs: page 349 of Finnegans Wake,
[1:01:13] Bob Dobbs: where he describes television,
[1:01:14] Bob Dobbs: or early,
[1:01:17] Bob Dobbs: that Scottish inventor,
[1:01:20] Bob Dobbs: what is he,
[1:01:21] Bob Dobbs: Baird.
[1:01:22] Bob Dobbs: He discovers that it creates a mechanical TV in the
[1:01:25] Bob Dobbs: 20s, whereas the American Philo Farnsworth creates an electronic or electric TV in 37 or so.
[1:01:32] Bob Dobbs: Anyways,
[1:01:32] Bob Dobbs: these are definite phases,
[1:01:34] Bob Dobbs: as I have at the top of the Tiny Note chart,
[1:01:37] Bob Dobbs: a chain letter of phase shifts.
[1:01:41] Cameron McEwen: But I like this idea of it being mud.
[1:01:46] Cameron McEwen: I like that very much because mud is inherently...
[1:01:52] Cameron McEwen: and obscure and not pure substance,
[1:01:58] Cameron McEwen: right?
[1:01:58] Cameron McEwen: So what you're talking about...
[1:02:02] Bob Dobbs: It's the original substance,
[1:02:03] Bob Dobbs: the clay.
[1:02:05] Cameron McEwen: Okay.
[1:02:06] Cameron McEwen: But what you're talking about are chronological periods which are seen through a glass darkly,
[1:02:19] Cameron McEwen: seen through the mud.
[1:02:22] Cameron McEwen: are these things.
[1:02:24] Cameron McEwen: You're not talking about the march of history here.
[1:02:31] Cameron McEwen: You're talking about different muddy...
[1:02:34] Cameron McEwen: Mood muds,
[1:02:35] Cameron McEwen: yeah,
[1:02:35] Bob Dobbs: the electric phases since the telegraph,
[1:02:38] Bob Dobbs: the electric shifts of the ratios because of the different quality of the veneer of different electric technologies.
[1:02:45] Bob Dobbs: Movie,
[1:02:45] Bob Dobbs: radio,
[1:02:45] Bob Dobbs: TV,
[1:02:46] Bob Dobbs: computer,
[1:02:46] Bob Dobbs: satellite.
[1:02:47] Bob Dobbs: These are different shifts.
[1:02:49] Bob Dobbs: They're candy on the surface.
[1:02:52] Bob Dobbs: and they make different flavor.
[1:02:55] Bob Dobbs: Now,
[1:02:55] Bob Dobbs: remember,
[1:02:56] Bob Dobbs: I'm putting it in print for the print bias,
[1:02:59] Bob Dobbs: so I'm putting on the linear here to give people a beginning point.
[1:03:06] Bob Dobbs: But,
[1:03:06] Bob Dobbs: of course,
[1:03:08] Bob Dobbs: talk to me privately,
[1:03:09] Bob Dobbs: you'll get nothing but Finnegans Wake from me.
[1:03:13] Cameron McEwen: So when you start at 1840,
[1:03:15] Cameron McEwen: you're starting with the telegraph and with magnetism and electricity.
[1:03:21] Bob Dobbs: And the symbolist poets.
[1:03:24] Cameron McEwen: Uh-huh.
[1:03:25] Cameron McEwen: Well,
[1:03:25] Cameron McEwen: Baudelaire is starting then.
[1:03:27] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[1:03:28] Bob Dobbs: he does Flowers of Evil in 1857.
[1:03:30] Bob Dobbs: But you also got
[1:03:31] Bob Dobbs: Claude Bernard,
[1:03:32] Bob Dobbs: The Interior Passage,
[1:03:34] Bob Dobbs: and you have the dandyism and probably a couple other phenomena in there that fits the bill.
[1:03:42] Bob Dobbs: Something new.
[1:03:44] Bob Dobbs: McLuhan called them the second symbolists.
[1:03:47] Bob Dobbs: The first symbolist was Yeats and the nature poets.
[1:03:50] Bob Dobbs: you know,
[1:03:51] Bob Dobbs: 50 years before.
[1:03:52] Bob Dobbs: Second symbolist is the French,
[1:03:54] Bob Dobbs: French guys,
[1:03:55] Bob Dobbs: Rimbaud,
[1:03:58] Bob Dobbs: Baudelaire.
[1:04:00] Cameron McEwen: That all sounds backwards to me,
[1:04:01] Cameron McEwen: Bob.
[1:04:02] Cameron McEwen: I mean,
[1:04:03] Cameron McEwen: Yeats,
[1:04:04] Cameron McEwen: you're talking about the end of the
[1:04:07] Cameron McEwen: 1800s, and here we're saying in 1840 was when
[1:04:13] Cameron McEwen: Baudelaire and people like that were developing out of...
[1:04:18] Cameron McEwen: No,
[1:04:18] Bob Dobbs: did I say Yeats?
[1:04:19] Bob Dobbs: I meant Keats.
[1:04:21] Cameron McEwen: Ah,
[1:04:22] Cameron McEwen: okay.
[1:04:22] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[1:04:22] Bob Dobbs: the late poets,
[1:04:23] Bob Dobbs: you know,
[1:04:23] Bob Dobbs: Keats,
[1:04:24] Bob Dobbs: Coleridge,
[1:04:24] Bob Dobbs: Wordsworth,
[1:04:26] Bob Dobbs: Byron.
[1:04:27] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[1:04:27] Cameron McEwen: yeah,
[1:04:27] Cameron McEwen: yeah.
[1:04:28] Bob Dobbs: They were the,
[1:04:29] Bob Dobbs: McLuhan said,
[1:04:29] Bob Dobbs: the first symbolists.
[1:04:31] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[1:04:31] Cameron McEwen: that makes sense.
[1:04:32] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[1:04:32] Bob Dobbs: and then you've got the electric guys,
[1:04:34] Bob Dobbs: the French,
[1:04:36] Bob Dobbs: as the second wave of symbolism.
[1:04:38] Bob Dobbs: And,
[1:04:38] Bob Dobbs: of course,
[1:04:38] Bob Dobbs: they have a big influence on the British art scene through Eliot Pound,
[1:04:44] Bob Dobbs: Lewis,
[1:04:45] Bob Dobbs: and maybe Yeats.
[1:04:47] Bob Dobbs: They bring that into English culture from France.
[1:04:51] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[1:04:51] Cameron McEwen: and pound.
[1:04:52] Bob Dobbs: Yes,
[1:04:53] Bob Dobbs: and how.
[1:04:57] Bob Dobbs: So these are good.
[1:04:59] Bob Dobbs: We've got to the point where we can accept these words.
[1:05:01] Bob Dobbs: You can dare look at them.
[1:05:06] Bob Dobbs: So you've got the cloning of ESP.
[1:05:10] Bob Dobbs: Now,
[1:05:11] Bob Dobbs: there was a lot of other things happening in 1840.
[1:05:13] Bob Dobbs: The Skull and Bone Society started around then.
[1:05:17] Bob Dobbs: You have the world government starting to be built,
[1:05:19] Bob Dobbs: the secret Big Brother scene.
[1:05:23] Bob Dobbs: Let's see,
[1:05:23] Bob Dobbs: you've got,
[1:05:26] Bob Dobbs: it's around the time that the French guy analyzes the American character.
[1:05:30] Bob Dobbs: What was his name?
[1:05:33] Cameron McEwen: de Tocqueville?
[1:05:34] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[1:05:35] Bob Dobbs: de Tocqueville.
[1:05:36] Bob Dobbs: I think he's over there in the 1830s or something.
[1:05:39] Bob Dobbs: And so he's looking at this new,
[1:05:41] Bob Dobbs: what we call kinetic space,
[1:05:43] Bob Dobbs: which is beyond visual space of Europe,
[1:05:45] Bob Dobbs: of literate Europe.
[1:05:47] Bob Dobbs: So he,
[1:05:47] Bob Dobbs: this is a new monster that's surfacing in America.
[1:05:52] Bob Dobbs: I would call it the kinetic bias.
[1:05:53] Bob Dobbs: That's what McLuhan called the American visual and kinetic,
[1:05:57] Bob Dobbs: or visual,
[1:05:58] Bob Dobbs: manipulative,
[1:05:59] Bob Dobbs: and kinetic.
[1:06:01] Bob Dobbs: So you're starting to get the plurality of the electric age here.
[1:06:05] Bob Dobbs: Europe is still monolingual,
[1:06:08] Bob Dobbs: univocal.
[1:06:12] Bob Dobbs: So that is the phatic communion of the ESP world.
[1:06:17] Bob Dobbs: ESP is phatic communication.
[1:06:20] Bob Dobbs: So that goes all the way up to 1960,
[1:06:24] Bob Dobbs: because then you're going to get the extension of the planet itself,
[1:06:28] Bob Dobbs: the satellite environment.
[1:06:30] Bob Dobbs: And that's the metaphor of you getting off the planet and floating around it.
[1:06:34] Bob Dobbs: You're getting out of the mood mud of the electric cloned ESP environment,
[1:06:39] Bob Dobbs: the analog electric media,
[1:06:41] Bob Dobbs: and you're floating around and you can dip into the terrestrial software voluntarily.
[1:06:47] Bob Dobbs: So that's 1960 to 2000.
[1:06:50] Bob Dobbs: That's the digital.
[1:06:51] Bob Dobbs: And that is a shrinking TV body or the shrinking screenal economy.
[1:06:57] Bob Dobbs: And that becomes a satirical,
[1:06:59] Bob Dobbs: aggressive caveman phatic communion,
[1:07:02] Bob Dobbs: a Menippean phatic communion,
[1:07:04] Bob Dobbs: which I invented.
[1:07:05] Bob Dobbs: That's a pretty clever phrase there,
[1:07:07] Bob Dobbs: Menippean phatic communion.
[1:07:09] Bob Dobbs: How do you do?
[1:07:10] Bob Dobbs: I would say a lot of rap culture is Menippean phatic communion.
[1:07:13] Bob Dobbs: Like,
[1:07:13] Bob Dobbs: what's up?
[1:07:14] Bob Dobbs: Or what up?
[1:07:15] Bob Dobbs: Or yo?
[1:07:16] Bob Dobbs: All the way the,
[1:07:18] Bob Dobbs: the,
[1:07:18] Bob Dobbs: uh.
[1:07:19] Bob Dobbs: the rappers would aggressively communicate phatic communication to you.
[1:07:23] Bob Dobbs: And that would be their defense.
[1:07:24] Bob Dobbs: If they were accused of violence,
[1:07:25] Bob Dobbs: no,
[1:07:26] Bob Dobbs: no,
[1:07:26] Bob Dobbs: we're just doing what society is doing.
[1:07:28] Bob Dobbs: We're just responding to mirroring back societies.
[1:07:32] Cameron McEwen: Like graffiti.
[1:07:34] Bob Dobbs: Yes,
[1:07:34] Bob Dobbs: and did you know that the first clothing fad that came out of the rapper culture was a company called Phat,
[1:07:42] Bob Dobbs: P-H-A-T?
[1:07:44] Cameron McEwen: Yes.
[1:07:45] Bob Dobbs: You knew that?
[1:07:46] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[1:07:46] Bob Dobbs: Russell somebody.
[1:07:48] Cameron McEwen: Well,
[1:07:48] Cameron McEwen: I remember when everybody was wearing fat t-shirts.
[1:07:51] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[1:07:52] Cameron McEwen: And fat sweatshirts,
[1:07:53] Cameron McEwen: especially.
[1:07:54] Bob Dobbs: So I put out Phatic Communion with Bob Dobbs in 92.
[1:07:58] Bob Dobbs: A year later,
[1:07:59] Bob Dobbs: I'm walking around in New York City,
[1:08:01] Bob Dobbs: and I started seeing this fat stuff.
[1:08:04] Bob Dobbs: And that was a mirror,
[1:08:07] Bob Dobbs: man.
[1:08:07] Bob Dobbs: I said,
[1:08:07] Bob Dobbs: holy shit,
[1:08:08] Bob Dobbs: what is this?
[1:08:08] Bob Dobbs: This is my fucking word.
[1:08:10] Bob Dobbs: And then I read up on it in whatever newspapers or black magazines.
[1:08:15] Bob Dobbs: I think there was...
[1:08:17] Bob Dobbs: There was a rapper magazine I found.
[1:08:19] Bob Dobbs: I was reading it.
[1:08:20] Bob Dobbs: So I discovered Russell,
[1:08:21] Bob Dobbs: I want to say Simmons.
[1:08:22] Bob Dobbs: Is that the name of the guy?
[1:08:23] Bob Dobbs: He started the company and it was called Fat.
[1:08:27] Bob Dobbs: And I saw an interview with some rappers about analyzing the word fat.
[1:08:32] Bob Dobbs: I never saw it again.
[1:08:33] Bob Dobbs: It's just a quick thing.
[1:08:35] Bob Dobbs: Didn't stay around very long,
[1:08:36] Bob Dobbs: it seemed.
[1:08:37] Bob Dobbs: But here I was reading about myself and how I'd done it.
[1:08:42] Bob Dobbs: I'd coined from a lofty...
[1:08:46] Bob Dobbs: and of serious art looking at your cultural grounds,
[1:08:49] Bob Dobbs: which is not pop art,
[1:08:51] Bob Dobbs: from a serious art seeing it reflected in pop art,
[1:08:54] Bob Dobbs: this code word.
[1:08:56] Bob Dobbs: That was the beginning of my xenogony,
[1:08:58] Bob Dobbs: me molding things.
[1:08:59] Bob Dobbs: I had the central position.
[1:09:02] Bob Dobbs: I was the central scrutinizer,
[1:09:03] Bob Dobbs: to quote that.
[1:09:06] Cameron McEwen: I would say that the word phatic you got from
[1:09:13] Cameron McEwen: Malinowski. Yes.
[1:09:16] Cameron McEwen: Richards' 1923 book,
[1:09:19] Cameron McEwen: Meaning of Meaning,
[1:09:21] Cameron McEwen: which is interesting in itself.
[1:09:24] Bob Dobbs: Well,
[1:09:24] Bob Dobbs: I see that
[1:09:26] Bob Dobbs: McLuhan came up with the word media,
[1:09:28] Bob Dobbs: so he didn't have to use the word phatic communion,
[1:09:30] Bob Dobbs: though he would quote that in his essays at the time.
[1:09:33] Bob Dobbs: But he coined a new word,
[1:09:36] Bob Dobbs: which was lurking there,
[1:09:37] Bob Dobbs: and no one really had hoiked it up yet.
[1:09:39] Bob Dobbs: It was just sort of an advertising say.
[1:09:42] Bob Dobbs: So the word to come up with after media becomes a cliche and an archetype is the word phatic communion or just the phatic.
[1:09:50] Bob Dobbs: I came up with the next hidden ground and then related it to telepathy,
[1:09:56] Bob Dobbs: which is updating McLuhan who said electronics is ESP.
[1:09:59] Bob Dobbs: It was very good what I did,
[1:10:01] Bob Dobbs: very accurate,
[1:10:02] Bob Dobbs: very high art,
[1:10:04] Bob Dobbs: way better than Michael Snow or anybody else you got up there in Toronto.
[1:10:08] Bob Dobbs: I was tuned in.
[1:10:09] Bob Dobbs: And so I go to the States,
[1:10:12] Bob Dobbs: you know,
[1:10:12] Bob Dobbs: St.
[1:10:12] Bob Dobbs: Augustine,
[1:10:13] Bob Dobbs: goes to see what the tribes are doing,
[1:10:14] Bob Dobbs: and they're doing me,
[1:10:16] Bob Dobbs: reflecting me on the pop culture level.
[1:10:19] Bob Dobbs: So that was a pretty good introduction to myself in New York at the center of the Android meme.
[1:10:26] Bob Dobbs: So then
[1:10:27] Bob Dobbs: I immediately went to work and developed it and coined the word Android meme and the answer was physical in the mid-90s,
[1:10:35] Bob Dobbs: 95.
[1:10:36] Bob Dobbs: And right away,
[1:10:37] Bob Dobbs: somebody out of the blue from a punk zine called
[1:10:41] Bob Dobbs: Flipside calls me up.
[1:10:44] Bob Dobbs: And I don't know what they knew about me.
[1:10:45] Bob Dobbs: He said,
[1:10:45] Bob Dobbs: can you write a column for us?
[1:10:47] Bob Dobbs: I said,
[1:10:47] Bob Dobbs: sure.
[1:10:48] Bob Dobbs: So I started a column called Android Memes Anachrony right there.
[1:10:52] Bob Dobbs: And I did it for six years or so.
[1:10:55] Bob Dobbs: I did all kinds of interesting articles and early stuff that I was making with...
[1:11:00] Bob Dobbs: Different people like Jerry Fialka,
[1:11:02] Bob Dobbs: we went to Costa Rica and we'd sit in the cottage in the evenings while the rains came down and
[1:11:07] Bob Dobbs: I would just talk.
[1:11:08] Bob Dobbs: And he'd tape it and then we'd transcribe it.
[1:11:10] Bob Dobbs: So I had all this material for,
[1:11:12] Bob Dobbs: I was just doing McLuhan,
[1:11:14] Bob Dobbs: talking to the young people.
[1:11:15] Bob Dobbs: You know what I mean?
[1:11:17] Bob Dobbs: I was on the street.
[1:11:18] Cameron McEwen: But McLuhan slashed Joyce,
[1:11:20] Cameron McEwen: I think.
[1:11:21] Bob Dobbs: Yes,
[1:11:22] Bob Dobbs: and Lewis even maybe.
[1:11:25] Bob Dobbs: So I was carrying on the tradition very well.
[1:11:28] Bob Dobbs: And not recognized by my so-called colleagues back at the Coach House.
[1:11:33] Bob Dobbs: They didn't get it.
[1:11:34] Bob Dobbs: They didn't know what I was doing.
[1:11:36] Bob Dobbs: But
[1:11:40] Bob Dobbs: I was doing it.
[1:11:41] Bob Dobbs: I had perfect pitch.
[1:11:42] Bob Dobbs: And see,
[1:11:43] Bob Dobbs: you have to be in our electric times,
[1:11:46] Bob Dobbs: tribal youthful times,
[1:11:48] Bob Dobbs: with no differences between ages.
[1:11:51] Bob Dobbs: The young people have,
[1:11:52] Bob Dobbs: if you're a major perceiver of what's going on,
[1:11:54] Bob Dobbs: the young people have to be reflecting you somehow.
[1:11:57] Bob Dobbs: And they did it with the word phatic.
[1:12:00] Bob Dobbs: I mean,
[1:12:00] Bob Dobbs: I'd like to talk to the guy.
[1:12:01] Bob Dobbs: Where did you get phat?
[1:12:02] Bob Dobbs: I think he went to university.
[1:12:03] Bob Dobbs: Did he have a,
[1:12:05] Bob Dobbs: did he take linguistics or something?
[1:12:06] Bob Dobbs: Did he get the word phat?
[1:12:08] Bob Dobbs: Now,
[1:12:09] Bob Dobbs: they defined it as just meaning groovy or something.
[1:12:11] Bob Dobbs: You know,
[1:12:11] Bob Dobbs: they didn't mean it linguistically,
[1:12:13] Bob Dobbs: I don't think.
[1:12:14] Bob Dobbs: But he might have gotten the word.
[1:12:15] Bob Dobbs: And then in his own way,
[1:12:17] Bob Dobbs: within the tribal rap culture,
[1:12:19] Bob Dobbs: he took the high university level of a word and stuck it on the street.
[1:12:25] Bob Dobbs: But I don't know.
[1:12:27] Bob Dobbs: It was a strange phenomenon,
[1:12:28] Bob Dobbs: this fat stuff.
[1:12:31] Cameron McEwen: I'm not sure that fat had anything to do with phatic.
[1:12:35] Cameron McEwen: I mean,
[1:12:37] Cameron McEwen: you're right to put them together,
[1:12:39] Cameron McEwen: but
[1:12:40] Cameron McEwen: I think it was just a way of signaling that the word fat with F could be used as something positive the same way they were using a whole bunch of other words like that's bad,
[1:12:54] Cameron McEwen: that's cold.
[1:12:55] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[1:12:56] Cameron McEwen: Right there.
[1:12:57] Bob Dobbs: That sucks.
[1:12:58] Cameron McEwen: So that's that.
[1:13:00] Cameron McEwen: That's just street talk and signaled with the P.
[1:13:07] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[1:13:07] Bob Dobbs: so that they were channeling.
[1:13:09] Bob Dobbs: They came up with a word,
[1:13:10] Bob Dobbs: didn't know the levels I was on.
[1:13:12] Cameron McEwen: Right.
[1:13:13] Bob Dobbs: But they had the right word,
[1:13:14] Bob Dobbs: which you tend to do.
[1:13:16] Bob Dobbs: You know,
[1:13:16] Bob Dobbs: that's what fascinated McLuhan about the Beatles and what was going on in rock and roll in the 60s is that
[1:13:23] Bob Dobbs: you know profound Gutenbergian insights were right there in the teenagers of bedroom you know and and for you could say Gutenbergian truth there are a lot of truth for most people yeah i just noticed something bob did you did you see before that
[1:13:40] Cameron McEwen: phatic and haptic um are i i forget the term but you can use the same letters to make both words yeah that's that's Very good.
[1:13:50] Bob Dobbs: What is that?
[1:13:50] Bob Dobbs: Anodyne?
[1:13:52] Bob Dobbs: Ano-something?
[1:13:53] Bob Dobbs: acronym yeah i think acronym no i think that's a that's titles of letters like hce um acro i don't know maybe it is acronym but there's another one similar what do you call uh lbj is
[1:14:10] Bob Dobbs: that an acronym i'm gonna have to look that up just let me check that yeah anagram the other word is anagram i think okay could be
[1:14:22] Bob Dobbs: Let me just check.
[1:14:23] Bob Dobbs: Acronym formed from initial letters of other words.
[1:14:28] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[1:14:29] Bob Dobbs: so
[1:14:30] Cameron McEwen: LBJ is...
[1:14:31] Cameron McEwen: It's not bad.
[1:14:32] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[1:14:32] Bob Dobbs: so you're doing...
[1:14:37] Bob Dobbs: What did I call it?
[1:14:37] Bob Dobbs: Andrew something?
[1:14:38] Bob Dobbs: What is it?
[1:14:41] Bob Dobbs: Anagram.
[1:14:42] Bob Dobbs: Anagram.
[1:14:43] Bob Dobbs: That's where you change the letters around,
[1:14:45] Bob Dobbs: I think.
[1:14:46] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[1:14:47] Bob Dobbs: you name form by rearranging the letters of another,
[1:14:50] Bob Dobbs: such as cinema formed from Iceman.
[1:14:52] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[1:14:52] Cameron McEwen: so that's anagram.
[1:14:55] Bob Dobbs: That's very good.
[1:14:57] Bob Dobbs: I don't think I ever noticed that,
[1:14:58] Bob Dobbs: that the P-H is the same letters.
[1:15:02] Bob Dobbs: H-A-P.
[1:15:03] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[1:15:04] Bob Dobbs: T-I-C.
[1:15:06] Bob Dobbs: So,
[1:15:06] Bob Dobbs: P-H-A,
[1:15:07] Bob Dobbs: PHA,
[1:15:07] Bob Dobbs: and HAP.
[1:15:09] Bob Dobbs: Very good.
[1:15:12] Bob Dobbs: A co-discovery.
[1:15:18] Bob Dobbs: Okay,
[1:15:18] Bob Dobbs: so
[1:15:20] Bob Dobbs: I was the unconscious tribal kid and you're the intellectual solid pattern.
[1:15:24] Bob Dobbs: I just said it.
[1:15:26] Bob Dobbs: I said,
[1:15:27] Bob Dobbs: a manipulative haptic commutant.
[1:15:30] Bob Dobbs: I misspelled phatic.
[1:15:34] Bob Dobbs: Okay,
[1:15:34] Bob Dobbs: so you've got the Anthropomorphic Physical sneaking in after voluntary ESP.
[1:15:39] Bob Dobbs: And the co-anesthesia is taken over.
[1:15:45] Bob Dobbs: The multi-body quadrophrenic entity is in the driver's seat.
[1:15:50] Bob Dobbs: It feels like the environment is making it feel that.
[1:15:52] Bob Dobbs: So that's 2000,
[1:15:53] Bob Dobbs: 2006.
[1:15:55] Bob Dobbs: And then that's 2006 is when
[1:15:58] Bob Dobbs: YouTube and Twitter and the bursting out of social media,
[1:16:05] Bob Dobbs: they called it,
[1:16:05] Bob Dobbs: which is a very interesting phrase,
[1:16:08] Bob Dobbs: social social.
[1:16:09] Bob Dobbs: Social squared,
[1:16:11] Bob Dobbs: media squared,
[1:16:12] Bob Dobbs: it's just a ridiculous term.
[1:16:13] Cameron McEwen: Hold on for one sec.
[1:16:13] Cameron McEwen: Beg your pardon?
[1:16:13] Cameron McEwen: Are you going for a walk?
[1:16:14] Cameron McEwen: Are you going to the movies?
[1:16:14] Cameron McEwen: Hmm?
[1:16:14] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.
[1:16:15] Cameron McEwen: Okay.
[1:16:15] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[1:16:15] Bob Dobbs: I'm taking Kennedy.
[1:16:15] Bob Dobbs: Oh,
[1:16:15] Cameron McEwen: I'm going to the apartment.
[1:16:24] Cameron McEwen: Okay.
[1:16:25] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[1:16:26] Cameron McEwen: sorry.
[1:16:27] Bob Dobbs: Okay.
[1:16:27] Bob Dobbs: I'm back.
[1:16:28] Bob Dobbs: Did you say something to me in that?
[1:16:30] Cameron McEwen: No.
[1:16:31] Cameron McEwen: Okay.
[1:16:31] Cameron McEwen: No,
[1:16:31] Cameron McEwen: I was talking to my wife.
[1:16:33] Bob Dobbs: Okay,
[1:16:33] Bob Dobbs: so I was explaining 2000,
[1:16:35] Bob Dobbs: 2006.
[1:16:36] Bob Dobbs: 2006 is when YouTube,
[1:16:37] Bob Dobbs: Facebook,
[1:16:38] Bob Dobbs: that's...
[1:16:38] Bob Dobbs: 2004,
[1:16:40] Bob Dobbs: 2005,
[1:16:41] Bob Dobbs: Twitter,
[1:16:41] Bob Dobbs: what's called social media burst out.
[1:16:43] Bob Dobbs: And that's the crowning of the AP.
[1:17:01] Bob Dobbs: So then that
[1:17:02] Bob Dobbs: becomes the scourge of the AP.
[1:17:08] Cameron McEwen: One second.
[1:17:18] Cameron McEwen: Sorry.
[1:17:19] Bob Dobbs: Okay.
[1:17:19] Cameron McEwen: We got one of the dogs is sick,
[1:17:22] Cameron McEwen: but we need to get him to the vet.
[1:17:25] Bob Dobbs: Can you keep talking?
[1:17:27] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[1:17:27] Cameron McEwen: no,
[1:17:28] Cameron McEwen: I'm done now.
[1:17:29] Bob Dobbs: Okay.
[1:17:30] Bob Dobbs: So
[1:17:31] Bob Dobbs: 1960 to 2000,
[1:17:34] Bob Dobbs: phase two,
[1:17:35] Bob Dobbs: second mood is...
[1:17:37] Bob Dobbs: peaks with the paranoia of Y2K,
[1:17:40] Bob Dobbs: and then you have 9-1-1.
[1:17:42] Bob Dobbs: So that's really the same period,
[1:17:43] Bob Dobbs: the same climax.
[1:17:45] Bob Dobbs: And then there's this
[1:17:46] Bob Dobbs: Luddite period under George Bush Jr.
[1:17:50] Bob Dobbs: from 2000-2006 where they're suppressing stem cell and technologies,
[1:17:55] Bob Dobbs: and the fundamentalists think they're getting in charge.
[1:18:00] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.
[1:18:01] Bob Dobbs: You know,
[1:18:01] Bob Dobbs: so there's...
[1:18:03] Cameron McEwen: But meanwhile,
[1:18:04] Cameron McEwen: all of the...
[1:18:05] Cameron McEwen: social media that you were just talking about were being prepared.
[1:18:08] Bob Dobbs: Yes,
[1:18:08] Bob Dobbs: they were sneaking up on everybody.
[1:18:10] Bob Dobbs: And then that,
[1:18:11] Bob Dobbs: I think it was in 2006 when some senator guy was running for a position and somebody YouTubed him and it just nailed him,
[1:18:20] Bob Dobbs: you know.
[1:18:21] Bob Dobbs: It was an invisible environment.
[1:18:22] Bob Dobbs: He didn't know that he'd be taped.
[1:18:25] Bob Dobbs: And so he had to resign.
[1:18:26] Bob Dobbs: So that happened,
[1:18:27] Bob Dobbs: I think,
[1:18:27] Bob Dobbs: in 2006 in North Carolina or one of those places.
[1:18:30] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[1:18:31] Cameron McEwen: I vaguely remember that.
[1:18:32] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[1:18:33] Bob Dobbs: So.
[1:18:33] Bob Dobbs: So it bursts forth,
[1:18:34] Bob Dobbs: and then it becomes a huge disservice by 2012.
[1:18:37] Bob Dobbs: That's what that
[1:18:39] Bob Dobbs: Harvard academic woman says.
[1:18:41] Bob Dobbs: That's when surveillance capitalism comes in,
[1:18:43] Bob Dobbs: and they're just selling nothing to nothing,
[1:18:45] Bob Dobbs: so-called information on people.
[1:18:48] Bob Dobbs: They're selling this to each other.
[1:18:50] Bob Dobbs: That's really flimsy.
[1:18:51] Bob Dobbs: And in the middle of that,
[1:18:53] Bob Dobbs: the
[1:18:53] Bob Dobbs: Gutenberg Galaxy collapses with the economic crash in 2008.
[1:18:59] Bob Dobbs: So it's quite a turbulent situation from 2007 on.
[1:19:03] Bob Dobbs: So I say
[1:19:04] Bob Dobbs: Cold Fusion,
[1:19:05] Bob Dobbs: which came in in 89,
[1:19:08] Bob Dobbs: an attempt to get Endless Electricity.
[1:19:10] Bob Dobbs: They didn't really pull it off.
[1:19:12] Bob Dobbs: And then we come along in 2009,
[1:19:17] Bob Dobbs: and iON comes in to offer the Endless Electricity box,
[1:19:21] Bob Dobbs: which we call Cold Play.
[1:19:23] Bob Dobbs: iON named it.
[1:19:24] Bob Dobbs: I don't know why they named it that.
[1:19:25] Bob Dobbs: I haven't had a chance to check that.
[1:19:27] Bob Dobbs: But anyways,
[1:19:28] Bob Dobbs: you've got this new ground of
[1:19:32] Bob Dobbs: Dobstown.
[1:19:35] Bob Dobbs: uh,
[1:19:35] Bob Dobbs: iONdom,
[1:19:36] Bob Dobbs: which is a strange phenomenon.
[1:19:40] Bob Dobbs: quite alienating for most people,
[1:19:43] Bob Dobbs: but we were definitely creating miracles.
[1:19:47] Bob Dobbs: And so that is the services of this tumultuous period,
[1:19:52] Bob Dobbs: which we're now experiencing.
[1:19:55] Bob Dobbs: You could say,
[1:19:55] Bob Dobbs: you know,
[1:19:55] Bob Dobbs: what's going on this year,
[1:19:57] Bob Dobbs: last year,
[1:19:58] Bob Dobbs: starts in 2000,
[1:19:59] Bob Dobbs: 2007 with the subprime mortgage chaos,
[1:20:02] Bob Dobbs: and then the collapsed economy,
[1:20:04] Bob Dobbs: and then the TARP economy,
[1:20:08] Bob Dobbs: and then people.
[1:20:09] Bob Dobbs: basically
[1:20:10] Bob Dobbs: From 2010 to 2020,
[1:20:12] Bob Dobbs: talking to people,
[1:20:14] Bob Dobbs: the world got weirder for people.
[1:20:17] Bob Dobbs: So by 2000 they're saying it's weird,
[1:20:19] Bob Dobbs: but earlier versions of these people were saying it in 2011-12.
[1:20:23] Bob Dobbs: So that is the fact that humans are now godlike,
[1:20:28] Bob Dobbs: telegnosis,
[1:20:30] Bob Dobbs: with their commanding,
[1:20:34] Bob Dobbs: top-of-the-mountain media perspective,
[1:20:36] Bob Dobbs: with their blogging.
[1:20:38] Bob Dobbs: What was that thing called?
[1:20:40] Bob Dobbs: podcast,
[1:20:41] Bob Dobbs: and then before that,
[1:20:45] Bob Dobbs: people would get on and broadcast.
[1:20:47] Bob Dobbs: Forget what the term was.
[1:20:48] Bob Dobbs: Was it podcasting?
[1:20:49] Bob Dobbs: Blogging?
[1:20:51] Bob Dobbs: There might have been another term in there.
[1:20:53] Bob Dobbs: Anyways,
[1:20:54] Bob Dobbs: that is total chaos for everybody.
[1:20:58] Bob Dobbs: And so that's the chip body shrinking to holeopathic levels.
[1:21:02] Bob Dobbs: And then that's Menippean,
[1:21:04] Bob Dobbs: Phatic Communion,
[1:21:04] Bob Dobbs: and Haptic Communion.
[1:21:07] Bob Dobbs: Tactility is not a sense,
[1:21:08] Bob Dobbs: so the closest to tactility is the haptic and the phatic,
[1:21:12] Bob Dobbs: and that's ESP.
[1:21:14] Bob Dobbs: So what I'm laying out there is familiar as a general cliche now.
[1:21:22] Bob Dobbs: So what comes next?
[1:21:24] Bob Dobbs: So there's where you get to the tech body,
[1:21:26] Bob Dobbs: which is just frightening to everybody.
[1:21:30] Bob Dobbs: So anything more you want?
[1:21:34] Bob Dobbs: This is quite obvious.
[1:21:35] Bob Dobbs: You've been well prepared to get to this page 171.
[1:21:40] Bob Dobbs: You can absorb it.
[1:21:42] Cameron McEwen: I will say that from my perspective,
[1:21:47] Cameron McEwen: the fourth position or fourth phase or whatever is all of the phases together.
[1:21:59] Bob Dobbs: And I say that.
[1:22:00] Bob Dobbs: Look,
[1:22:00] Bob Dobbs: I'm covered,
[1:22:01] Bob Dobbs: including one,
[1:22:02] Bob Dobbs: two,
[1:22:02] Bob Dobbs: and three.
[1:22:04] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.
[1:22:06] Bob Dobbs: I know the simultaneity.
[1:22:09] Cameron McEwen: I've got that covered.
[1:22:10] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[1:22:10] Cameron McEwen: I'm not making a criticism here.
[1:22:14] Cameron McEwen: I'm saying that you cannot have everything together if you make everything into a cloud,
[1:22:25] Cameron McEwen: if you make everything into some kind of uniform matching.
[1:22:30] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[1:22:31] Cameron McEwen: Everything inherently...
[1:22:34] Cameron McEwen: introduces distinction.
[1:22:37] Bob Dobbs: Borders,
[1:22:37] Bob Dobbs: the tactile.
[1:22:39] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[1:22:40] Cameron McEwen: exactly.
[1:22:41] Cameron McEwen: So then if tactility is taken seriously,
[1:22:47] Cameron McEwen: that is to say it's not erased,
[1:22:50] Cameron McEwen: if it's allowed to reign in every sense of that,
[1:22:55] Cameron McEwen: R-A-I-N or R-E-I-G-N,
[1:23:00] Cameron McEwen: if tactility is allowed to reign.
[1:23:03] Cameron McEwen: then you're going to get cloning ESP,
[1:23:06] Cameron McEwen: voluntary ESP,
[1:23:07] Cameron McEwen: Anthropomorphic Physical
[1:23:09] Cameron McEwen: Android meme.
[1:23:11] Cameron McEwen: You're going to get all those because they are the necessary distinctions which make up the play of Coldplay.
[1:23:22] Bob Dobbs: Exactly.
[1:23:23] Bob Dobbs: And so I say on the album,
[1:23:25] Bob Dobbs: Bob's Media Ecology,
[1:23:26] Bob Dobbs: we never left 1945.
[1:23:28] Bob Dobbs: We've been running on the same spot and layering over information.
[1:23:32] Bob Dobbs: That's...
[1:23:33] Bob Dobbs: That's an expression of simultaneity,
[1:23:36] Bob Dobbs: but focusing on an endpoint of the atomic bomb,
[1:23:43] Bob Dobbs: Hiroshima and all that.
[1:23:44] Bob Dobbs: So what is good here is you could say the clone ESP is the chemical body,
[1:23:50] Bob Dobbs: electrified.
[1:23:52] Bob Dobbs: The voluntary ESP is the astral body,
[1:23:57] Bob Dobbs: digitized or electrified.
[1:23:59] Bob Dobbs: Then you have the raw origins.
[1:24:02] Bob Dobbs: in quotes,
[1:24:04] Bob Dobbs: the Anthropomorphic Physical,
[1:24:06] Bob Dobbs: which has been retrieved.
[1:24:08] Bob Dobbs: And then you have this fusion factor,
[1:24:11] Bob Dobbs: which includes quadrophrenia and haptic.
[1:24:15] Bob Dobbs: So I've got my four bodies right there in the phases.
[1:24:18] Bob Dobbs: So
[1:24:19] Bob Dobbs: I'm projecting.
[1:24:20] Bob Dobbs: We've been going through the analog media for many,
[1:24:23] Bob Dobbs: many pages,
[1:24:25] Bob Dobbs: redoing McLuhan's phases.
[1:24:27] Bob Dobbs: And that is the...
[1:24:34] Bob Dobbs: I was really,
[1:24:35] Bob Dobbs: there was quadrophrenia underlying that.
[1:24:37] Bob Dobbs: It was a fake sequence to...
[1:24:44] Bob Dobbs: To match with the illiterate effect that you were encouraging people to notice.
[1:24:49] Bob Dobbs: Because remember,
[1:24:50] Bob Dobbs: there is an anemia in literacy.
[1:24:53] Bob Dobbs: People don't know how to read.
[1:24:55] Bob Dobbs: They can't use chronology.
[1:24:58] Bob Dobbs: It shouldn't be tossed out completely.
[1:25:02] Cameron McEwen: But they have to lose it in order to regain it properly.
[1:25:07] Bob Dobbs: And I helped them regain it properly.
[1:25:12] Cameron McEwen: All right,
[1:25:12] Cameron McEwen: I'll go to that.
[1:25:13] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[1:25:13] Bob Dobbs: you accept that.
[1:25:15] Bob Dobbs: So,
[1:25:17] Bob Dobbs: yeah,
[1:25:17] Bob Dobbs: you've got the four bodies there.
[1:25:19] Bob Dobbs: So let's see what I say at the bar.
[1:25:23] Bob Dobbs: After a hard day at work,
[1:25:24] Bob Dobbs: working out,
[1:25:25] Bob Dobbs: writing out the chronology,
[1:25:26] Bob Dobbs: I go to the bar,
[1:25:27] Bob Dobbs: just both off,
[1:25:28] Bob Dobbs: right?
[1:25:30] Cameron McEwen: Fire away.
[1:25:31] Bob Dobbs: I go,
[1:25:31] Bob Dobbs: remember,
[1:25:32] Bob Dobbs: I described how you shape Marilyn Monroe's body.
[1:25:35] Bob Dobbs: You mime it with your hands going up and down the curves.
[1:25:39] Bob Dobbs: Haptic is...
[1:25:39] Bob Dobbs: half of tactility.
[1:25:41] Bob Dobbs: Tactility is touch and then let go.
[1:25:43] Bob Dobbs: Touch,
[1:25:44] Bob Dobbs: contact pressure,
[1:25:44] Bob Dobbs: then empty.
[1:25:46] Bob Dobbs: Touch,
[1:25:46] Bob Dobbs: contact,
[1:25:47] Bob Dobbs: and you speed up your beating.
[1:25:48] Bob Dobbs: That's drumming on the table.
[1:25:51] Bob Dobbs: So there's contact pressure in tactility,
[1:25:53] Bob Dobbs: but not in the haptic.
[1:25:54] Bob Dobbs: It's just a shaping.
[1:25:57] Bob Dobbs: It's a movement of the hands,
[1:25:59] Bob Dobbs: but it's the tactile hands,
[1:26:00] Bob Dobbs: and they're shaping a pattern in the tactile void in the gap,
[1:26:04] Bob Dobbs: action in the gap.
[1:26:05] Bob Dobbs: So the haptic is the content of
[1:26:09] Bob Dobbs: Wealth-making.
[1:26:12] Bob Dobbs: The economy is haptic.
[1:26:14] Bob Dobbs: You know,
[1:26:14] Bob Dobbs: it's got a bit of the sensory.
[1:26:16] Bob Dobbs: It's not pure tactility.
[1:26:19] Bob Dobbs: So the haptic is the figure and tactility is the ground.
[1:26:23] Bob Dobbs: And everybody wrestles with the haptic.
[1:26:26] Bob Dobbs: So life becomes an interplanetary massage.
[1:26:33] Bob Dobbs: Action in the gap.
[1:26:35] Bob Dobbs: A lot of massaging.
[1:26:37] Bob Dobbs: Miming the massage.
[1:26:39] Bob Dobbs: So McLuhan used it,
[1:26:40] Bob Dobbs: the haptic,
[1:26:41] Bob Dobbs: twice in all of his writing.
[1:26:42] Bob Dobbs: I don't know where I got that.
[1:26:44] Bob Dobbs: Is that true?
[1:26:45] Bob Dobbs: I don't think so.
[1:26:46] Cameron McEwen: I don't know.
[1:26:47] Cameron McEwen: I'll check it out maybe if I remember.
[1:26:49] Bob Dobbs: But I'm in the bar.
[1:26:50] Bob Dobbs: I'm bullshitting,
[1:26:50] Bob Dobbs: you know.
[1:26:54] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[1:26:55] Bob Dobbs: yeah.
[1:26:55] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[1:26:55] Bob Dobbs: Heidegger never featured quotes of himself bullshitting in the bar in his great manifesto.
[1:27:00] Bob Dobbs: This is new in the philosopher world,
[1:27:03] Bob Dobbs: right?
[1:27:03] Bob Dobbs: This is good.
[1:27:05] Bob Dobbs: McLuhan used it,
[1:27:05] Bob Dobbs: the haptic,
[1:27:06] Bob Dobbs: twice in all of his writing.
[1:27:07] Bob Dobbs: It's part of tactility.
[1:27:09] Bob Dobbs: I used to say that it was part because tactility was not a sense but the interplay of the senses.
[1:27:13] Bob Dobbs: The first thing that's closest to the non-sensory tactility is the haptic.
[1:27:17] Bob Dobbs: Haptic is tactility slightly removed.
[1:27:20] Bob Dobbs: Just remember,
[1:27:20] Bob Dobbs: tactility is the interplay of the senses,
[1:27:22] Bob Dobbs: and it's not a sense in itself.
[1:27:24] Bob Dobbs: So that's the basic McLuhan point that I come back to for the novice,
[1:27:28] Bob Dobbs: right?
[1:27:28] Bob Dobbs: They've got to figure out what tactility is as McLuhan defined it.
[1:27:32] Bob Dobbs: So I'm repeating myself there,
[1:27:34] Bob Dobbs: but I had to do it.
[1:27:36] Bob Dobbs: So we come to,
[1:27:37] Bob Dobbs: holy shit,
[1:27:38] Bob Dobbs: look at this,
[1:27:38] Bob Dobbs: 172,
[1:27:39] Bob Dobbs: chapter 6,
[1:27:40] Bob Dobbs: the punchline,
[1:27:41] Bob Dobbs: the tech body and President Donald Trump.
[1:27:46] Bob Dobbs: I say,
[1:27:46] Bob Dobbs: now we come to the point of this essay.
[1:27:50] Bob Dobbs: So this is great.
[1:27:52] Bob Dobbs: Are we going to be finished before the new year?
[1:27:55] Cameron McEwen: Maybe.
[1:27:56] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[1:27:56] Bob Dobbs: Okay.
[1:27:58] Bob Dobbs: Now we did this,
[1:27:59] Bob Dobbs: we retrieved this quote,
[1:28:01] Bob Dobbs: right?
[1:28:01] Bob Dobbs: I already did this.
[1:28:02] Bob Dobbs: It is man who has become both figure and ground via the electrotechnical extension of his awareness.
[1:28:07] Bob Dobbs: Take Today,
[1:28:08] Bob Dobbs: 1972,
[1:28:09] Bob Dobbs: page 11.
[1:28:10] Bob Dobbs: So,
[1:28:12] Bob Dobbs: I guess rhetorically,
[1:28:13] Bob Dobbs: I go,
[1:28:13] Bob Dobbs: how are we going to explain that?
[1:28:15] Bob Dobbs: The quote,
[1:28:16] Bob Dobbs: I guess,
[1:28:16] Bob Dobbs: McLuhan's quote.
[1:28:17] Bob Dobbs: You begin by saying man is both figure and ground.
[1:28:21] Bob Dobbs: It is man who has become both figure and ground.
[1:28:23] Bob Dobbs: I'm quoting,
[1:28:24] Bob Dobbs: is that what McLuhan says?
[1:28:25] Bob Dobbs: Literally?
[1:28:27] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[1:28:27] Bob Dobbs: yeah.
[1:28:28] Bob Dobbs: They flip back and forth like a trompe-l'oeil.
[1:28:31] Bob Dobbs: Now,
[1:28:31] Bob Dobbs: Kroker uses the word trompe-l'oeil a lot.
[1:28:35] Bob Dobbs: A painting or design intended to create a visual illusion.
[1:28:40] Cameron McEwen: So does Cavell.
[1:28:42] Bob Dobbs: Yes,
[1:28:42] Bob Dobbs: yeah.
[1:28:43] Bob Dobbs: Via the electrotechnical extension of his awareness.
[1:28:46] Bob Dobbs: That's a neat phrase,
[1:28:47] Bob Dobbs: electrotechnical.
[1:28:50] Bob Dobbs: But all this background...
[1:28:52] Cameron McEwen: The flipping back and forth is only part of it.
[1:28:56] Cameron McEwen: There was a large part of humor to it in
[1:28:59] Cameron McEwen: French art.
[1:29:01] Cameron McEwen: And you bring that in more than
[1:29:05] Cameron McEwen: Kroker and Cavell.
[1:29:06] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[1:29:07] Bob Dobbs: Did you say there was humor in my chart or you said another word?
[1:29:13] Cameron McEwen: No.
[1:29:13] Cameron McEwen: Well,
[1:29:14] Cameron McEwen: there's humor in everything you do.
[1:29:16] Bob Dobbs: Right.
[1:29:17] Bob Dobbs: Oh,
[1:29:18] Bob Dobbs: did you say humor at heart?
[1:29:19] Bob Dobbs: Maybe you said at heart.
[1:29:23] Bob Dobbs: You just said two words.
[1:29:23] Bob Dobbs: I didn't get what they were.
[1:29:25] Bob Dobbs: You said there's humor in your chart or at heart.
[1:29:29] Bob Dobbs: Anyways,
[1:29:30] Bob Dobbs: you're pointing out there's humor in Bob.
[1:29:33] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[1:29:33] Cameron McEwen: but I'm saying in this flipping of the figure in ground.
[1:29:37] Bob Dobbs: Yes.
[1:29:38] Cameron McEwen: Right?
[1:29:39] Cameron McEwen: This is something that can be taken too seriously,
[1:29:44] Cameron McEwen: and I even think it is by both
[1:29:46] Cameron McEwen: Kroker and Cavell.
[1:29:48] Cameron McEwen: But you bring in the humorous side of it,
[1:29:50] Cameron McEwen: just as there was in French art.
[1:29:53] Bob Dobbs: In other words,
[1:29:54] Bob Dobbs: LaRouche has this great quote in my book,
[1:29:56] Bob Dobbs: All great art is a huge joke.
[1:30:02] Bob Dobbs: A great joke,
[1:30:03] Bob Dobbs: and so yes.
[1:30:04] Cameron McEwen: That's not far wrong,
[1:30:05] Cameron McEwen: absolutely.
[1:30:06] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[1:30:07] Bob Dobbs: I'm talking about the grievance,
[1:30:09] Bob Dobbs: and that evokes humor.
[1:30:10] Bob Dobbs: So there it is,
[1:30:11] Bob Dobbs: the figure on the ground,
[1:30:12] Bob Dobbs: humor and grievance.
[1:30:14] Bob Dobbs: They flip back and forth like a trompe-l'oeil.
[1:30:16] Bob Dobbs: I should have said like a joke.
[1:30:18] Bob Dobbs: A painting or design intended to create a visual illusion via the electrotechnical extension of his awareness.
[1:30:23] Bob Dobbs: That's a neat phrase.
[1:30:25] Bob Dobbs: But all this background,
[1:30:27] Bob Dobbs: the stages of apprehension,
[1:30:29] Bob Dobbs: which implies chronology,
[1:30:31] Bob Dobbs: is the preparation for the far more difficult and strange situation of the tech body.
[1:30:37] Bob Dobbs: Now that's a good statement.
[1:30:39] Bob Dobbs: This was written,
[1:30:40] Bob Dobbs: what,
[1:30:40] Bob Dobbs: four years ago.
[1:30:45] Cameron McEwen: When you say the stages of apprehension imply chronology,
[1:30:50] Cameron McEwen: they don't for McLuhan.
[1:30:51] Bob Dobbs: No.
[1:30:52] Bob Dobbs: Oh,
[1:30:52] Bob Dobbs: no,
[1:30:52] Cameron McEwen: I know.
[1:30:54] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[1:30:54] Bob Dobbs: I'm just saying the person will read it as literate phases or stages in the chronology.
[1:31:04] Cameron McEwen: What McLuhan does with the stages of apprehension is take the stages of language speaking and apply it to media.
[1:31:18] Cameron McEwen: So when language is spoken,
[1:31:25] Cameron McEwen: there's a lot of stages that go into the choice of a word.
[1:31:32] Cameron McEwen: the intonation of a word and the grammar around a word.
[1:31:37] Cameron McEwen: There's all sorts of things that are almost entirely unconscious.
[1:31:42] Cameron McEwen: And that unconscious staging is what McLuhan calls the stages of apprehension.
[1:31:50] Cameron McEwen: So you could say that in the stages of apprehension,
[1:31:54] Cameron McEwen: there are not only stages that are chronological,
[1:31:59] Cameron McEwen: but not in the normal sense of chronology.
[1:32:02] Cameron McEwen: It's also staged in the sense of a play,
[1:32:04] Cameron McEwen: of a theater.
[1:32:06] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[1:32:06] Bob Dobbs: because apprehension means not only understanding,
[1:32:08] Bob Dobbs: I also include the anxiety meaning of apprehension.
[1:32:11] Cameron McEwen: Sure.
[1:32:13] Bob Dobbs: So we've got progressive horrors until we get to the tech body,
[1:32:16] Cameron McEwen: the ultimate horror.
[1:32:20] Bob Dobbs: So you didn't see that,
[1:32:21] Bob Dobbs: right?
[1:32:22] Bob Dobbs: The stages of horror.
[1:32:23] Bob Dobbs: Oh,
[1:32:23] Cameron McEwen: see what?
[1:32:25] Bob Dobbs: The horror definition of apprehension.
[1:32:26] Bob Dobbs: Is that why you laughed?
[1:32:29] Cameron McEwen: No,
[1:32:29] Cameron McEwen: I laughed because it was interesting.
[1:32:31] Cameron McEwen: What you're doing is you're complicating something in an interesting way,
[1:32:35] Cameron McEwen: and I like that.
[1:32:36] Bob Dobbs: Okay,
[1:32:36] Bob Dobbs: good.
[1:32:37] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[1:32:37] Bob Dobbs: I like to say when you're laughing,
[1:32:39] Bob Dobbs: you're learning.
[1:32:40] Cameron McEwen: Sure,
[1:32:40] Cameron McEwen: that's good.
[1:32:42] Bob Dobbs: Okay,
[1:32:42] Bob Dobbs: so all this background is a preparation for the far more difficult and strange situation of the tech body.
[1:32:46] Bob Dobbs: I think that would be called the sublime.
[1:32:49] Bob Dobbs: Isn't the sublime original meaning the strange,
[1:32:52] Bob Dobbs: awe-inspiring strangeness?
[1:32:55] Cameron McEwen: Maybe,
[1:32:56] Cameron McEwen: yeah.
[1:32:56] Cameron McEwen: That's certainly part of it.
[1:32:59] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[1:32:59] Bob Dobbs: By way of an abrupt,
[1:33:01] Bob Dobbs: hasty conclusion,
[1:33:03] Bob Dobbs: I cite the news events of January 20,
[1:33:07] Bob Dobbs: 2017 as evidence of these factors and patterns described above.
[1:33:15] Bob Dobbs: I guess I'm talking about Trump.
[1:33:18] Cameron McEwen: Notice that there is no such thing as a conclusion that is not abrupt and hasty.
[1:33:25] Bob Dobbs: That's right.
[1:33:26] Cameron McEwen: That's the only way to get to a conclusion.
[1:33:29] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[1:33:29] Bob Dobbs: you have to be abrupt and hasty.
[1:33:32] Bob Dobbs: Okay,
[1:33:33] Bob Dobbs: when I discuss Don Trump,
[1:33:35] Bob Dobbs: that Don Trump is made up of a chemical body,
[1:33:37] Bob Dobbs: a TV body,
[1:33:38] Bob Dobbs: and a chip body,
[1:33:39] Bob Dobbs: just like any of us.
[1:33:40] Bob Dobbs: Don Trump's chemical body declared his candidacy for the role of President of the USA on June 16,
[1:33:45] Bob Dobbs: 2015,
[1:33:46] Bob Dobbs: James Joyce's famous Bloomsday in his novel Ulysses.
[1:33:50] Bob Dobbs: Did you know that?
[1:33:53] Cameron McEwen: No,
[1:33:54] Cameron McEwen: that he had done it on Bloomsday?
[1:33:55] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[1:33:56] Bob Dobbs: that was pretty good.
[1:33:59] Bob Dobbs: That chemical body did not know on June 16,
[1:34:03] Bob Dobbs: 2015,
[1:34:03] Bob Dobbs: that its style of communication in the TV landscape,
[1:34:07] Bob Dobbs: CNN,
[1:34:07] Bob Dobbs: Fox News,
[1:34:08] Bob Dobbs: ABC,
[1:34:08] Bob Dobbs: CBS,
[1:34:08] Bob Dobbs: NBC,
[1:34:09] Bob Dobbs: et al.,
[1:34:09] Bob Dobbs: combined with its style of communication in the chip body,
[1:34:13] Bob Dobbs: Facebook,
[1:34:13] Bob Dobbs: Twitter,
[1:34:13] Bob Dobbs: and all,
[1:34:14] Bob Dobbs: would have a great charisma,
[1:34:16] Bob Dobbs: regardless of who secretly or overtly supported his chemical body financially or telegenically.
[1:34:22] Bob Dobbs: So I'm saying that Trump didn't know what he was channeling.
[1:34:29] Cameron McEwen: And I notice you don't bring in the astral body at any place here.
[1:34:34] Cameron McEwen: Is that on purpose?
[1:34:36] Bob Dobbs: Maybe it comes.
[1:34:37] Bob Dobbs: It's got to come in.
[1:34:38] Bob Dobbs: We'll see what I say.
[1:34:39] Bob Dobbs: I think it's coming up.
[1:34:40] Bob Dobbs: I think I'm going to go through the bodies.
[1:34:44] Bob Dobbs: Right offhand.
[1:34:46] Bob Dobbs: The astral body would be the great supposed Christian community supporting Trump.
[1:34:53] Bob Dobbs: You know,
[1:34:53] Bob Dobbs: he's got all the Christian people behind him.
[1:34:59] Bob Dobbs: Fundamentalist Christians,
[1:35:00] Bob Dobbs: I guess.
[1:35:01] Bob Dobbs: So that might be the astral body there.
[1:35:05] Cameron McEwen: I was thinking you were going to say that the astral body of
[1:35:08] Cameron McEwen: Trump was the tech body.
[1:35:12] Bob Dobbs: No,
[1:35:13] Bob Dobbs: no,
[1:35:13] Bob Dobbs: the tech body is all the bodies,
[1:35:14] Bob Dobbs: plus the six bodies.
[1:35:16] Bob Dobbs: which is ionism.
[1:35:17] Bob Dobbs: The mystery body is the fifth body,
[1:35:20] Bob Dobbs: and then it syncretizes into the,
[1:35:24] Bob Dobbs: well,
[1:35:24] Bob Dobbs: what's the other word?
[1:35:25] Bob Dobbs: Synergistically becomes the hexatic.
[1:35:29] Bob Dobbs: That's at the bottom of my chart.
[1:35:32] Bob Dobbs: So the chemical body did not know that it would create,
[1:35:39] Bob Dobbs: we don't know what Trump knew.
[1:35:40] Bob Dobbs: All we knew is he was on my fucking
[1:35:42] Bob Dobbs: RNA drops and all energized.
[1:35:44] Bob Dobbs: He got that from his daughter.
[1:35:46] Bob Dobbs: And he just had the energy to become a nuisance.
[1:35:51] Bob Dobbs: We don't know if he really believed he'd become president,
[1:35:54] Bob Dobbs: even though
[1:35:55] Bob Dobbs: Richard Nixon predicted he'd become president.
[1:35:57] Bob Dobbs: All kinds of people behind the scenes were telling him he had a really good chance.
[1:36:02] Bob Dobbs: He had the astral behind him.
[1:36:03] Bob Dobbs: That could be the astral,
[1:36:05] Bob Dobbs: the psychic support for his move.
[1:36:10] Bob Dobbs: That chemical,
[1:36:10] Bob Dobbs: I did not know that it's.
[1:36:13] Bob Dobbs: style of communication in the TV landscape,
[1:36:15] Bob Dobbs: which would become the TV body.
[1:36:16] Bob Dobbs: He did not know his TV body and chip body would have a great charisma,
[1:36:22] Bob Dobbs: regardless of who secretly or overtly supported his chemical body financially or telegenically.
[1:36:27] Bob Dobbs: He almost,
[1:36:28] Bob Dobbs: now I find out later,
[1:36:30] Bob Dobbs: iON says the last president was Obama.
[1:36:33] Bob Dobbs: So there's no more president when Trump shows up.
[1:36:36] Bob Dobbs: So he's not even going to be a president,
[1:36:39] Bob Dobbs: doesn't have to be.
[1:36:40] Bob Dobbs: Their charisma is...
[1:36:42] Bob Dobbs: He's just a quadrophrenic character acting out the role of authority,
[1:36:48] Bob Dobbs: and people feel they learn a lot from it.
[1:36:52] Bob Dobbs: They go through hysteria,
[1:36:55] Bob Dobbs: paranoia,
[1:36:57] Bob Dobbs: panic,
[1:36:57] Bob Dobbs: and ecstasy,
[1:36:58] Bob Dobbs: and schizophrenia in dealing with this media hallucination,
[1:37:03] Bob Dobbs: which is an agent of the tech body,
[1:37:05] Bob Dobbs: the figure for the tech body.
[1:37:07] Cameron McEwen: The population is...
[1:37:12] Cameron McEwen: frozen in different responses to
[1:37:18] Cameron McEwen: Trump, right?
[1:37:18] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[1:37:21] Bob Dobbs: there's something sneaking up on people.
[1:37:23] Bob Dobbs: The AP,
[1:37:25] Bob Dobbs: from
[1:37:28] Bob Dobbs: 2006 to 2007,
[1:37:30] Bob Dobbs: well,
[1:37:31] Bob Dobbs: 2000 to 2007,
[1:37:33] Bob Dobbs: there's something sneaking up on people.
[1:37:36] Bob Dobbs: They've been frozen in the two decades,
[1:37:39] Bob Dobbs: the two terms of Obama.
[1:37:41] Bob Dobbs: And all his contradictions are quadrophrenia.
[1:37:45] Bob Dobbs: So there had to be an explosion.
[1:37:47] Bob Dobbs: And this is what Baudrillard talks about.
[1:37:49] Bob Dobbs: The event shows up,
[1:37:51] Bob Dobbs: which releases a lot of stuff.
[1:37:52] Bob Dobbs: So Trump is an event dealing with the imprisonment of the four or five bodies.
[1:38:01] Bob Dobbs: Because Ayaan is here in 2009,
[1:38:04] Bob Dobbs: so the mystery body is being revealed.
[1:38:07] Cameron McEwen: By the way,
[1:38:09] Cameron McEwen: the use...
[1:38:11] Cameron McEwen: of the word event is increasingly common,
[1:38:16] Cameron McEwen: but that actually was started by Heidegger in the
[1:38:21] Bob Dobbs: 1930s. Is that right?
[1:38:22] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.
[1:38:24] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[1:38:24] Bob Dobbs: like Zappa talks about event slash organism in 1970.
[1:38:29] Bob Dobbs: He used the word event.
[1:38:32] Bob Dobbs: Did McLuhan use the word event?
[1:38:35] Cameron McEwen: No,
[1:38:35] Cameron McEwen: but he,
[1:38:37] Cameron McEwen: well,
[1:38:37] Cameron McEwen: I don't know.
[1:38:38] Cameron McEwen: There may be places he did.
[1:38:39] Cameron McEwen: I've never looked into it.
[1:38:41] Cameron McEwen: But the concept of event is central to
[1:38:47] Cameron McEwen: McLuhan. He uses the word extension.
[1:38:51] Cameron McEwen: The event is the same as extend.
[1:38:56] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[1:38:56] Bob Dobbs: and that would be what he called performance or the image.
[1:39:00] Bob Dobbs: You know,
[1:39:02] Bob Dobbs: what's his name?
[1:39:03] Bob Dobbs: Daniel
[1:39:04] Bob Dobbs: Boorstin, the image,
[1:39:05] Bob Dobbs: the pseudo event.
[1:39:06] Bob Dobbs: Ah,
[1:39:06] Bob Dobbs: there's the term he used,
[1:39:07] Bob Dobbs: pseudo event.
[1:39:11] Bob Dobbs: Or other people did,
[1:39:12] Bob Dobbs: and he critiqued that.
[1:39:13] Bob Dobbs: He said,
[1:39:13] Bob Dobbs: no,
[1:39:13] Bob Dobbs: no,
[1:39:14] Bob Dobbs: it's not pseudo.
[1:39:15] Bob Dobbs: So yeah,
[1:39:16] Bob Dobbs: he picked up on,
[1:39:17] Bob Dobbs: I think it was Borsten's phrase,
[1:39:19] Bob Dobbs: pseudo event.
[1:39:21] Bob Dobbs: So that charisma,
[1:39:26] Bob Dobbs: now McLuhan defined charisma as looking like a lot of other people.
[1:39:32] Bob Dobbs: So I altered it a bit.
[1:39:33] Bob Dobbs: I say that charisma,
[1:39:35] Bob Dobbs: communicating like a lot of other chip bodies and TV bodies.
[1:39:38] Bob Dobbs: An extension of McLuhan's definition of charisma that I had in the summer of 77.
[1:39:44] Bob Dobbs: Jimmy Carter looks like a lot of other people it would be nice to know.
[1:39:47] Bob Dobbs: Tom Sawyer in the White House.
[1:39:49] Bob Dobbs: So is Trump Huck Finn in the White House?
[1:39:53] Bob Dobbs: Is Obama the black guy?
[1:39:55] Bob Dobbs: Who is the black guy in?
[1:39:59] Cameron McEwen: Joe,
[1:40:00] Cameron McEwen: isn't it?
[1:40:01] Cameron McEwen: I think his name is Joe.
[1:40:04] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[1:40:04] Bob Dobbs: you know,
[1:40:04] Bob Dobbs: Mark Twain's Huckleberry Finn.
[1:40:08] Bob Dobbs: So yeah,
[1:40:09] Bob Dobbs: you have Joe and then you have
[1:40:13] Bob Dobbs: Huck Finn.
[1:40:15] Bob Dobbs: Okay,
[1:40:15] Bob Dobbs: so surprise was...
[1:40:19] Bob Dobbs: of words here.
[1:40:21] Bob Dobbs: That charisma,
[1:40:22] Bob Dobbs: then explain it.
[1:40:24] Cameron McEwen: So charisma is being used here as kind of cement of the bodies.
[1:40:32] Bob Dobbs: Yes,
[1:40:33] Bob Dobbs: yeah.
[1:40:33] Cameron McEwen: Right,
[1:40:34] Cameron McEwen: that
[1:40:35] Cameron McEwen: Trump has corporate tactility,
[1:40:43] Cameron McEwen: you could say.
[1:40:44] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[1:40:44] Bob Dobbs: and in a way he has
[1:40:46] Bob Dobbs: flipped the charisma of looking like a lot of people would be nice to know,
[1:40:49] Bob Dobbs: hey,
[1:40:49] Bob Dobbs: Trump is a guy that would be not nice to know.
[1:40:53] Cameron McEwen: Correct.
[1:40:53] Bob Dobbs: There's a flip here.
[1:40:56] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[1:40:56] Bob Dobbs: so that charisma surprised Don Trump's chemical body,
[1:41:00] Bob Dobbs: which term includes Don Trump's brain as much as anybody else's,
[1:41:04] Bob Dobbs: surprised his own chemical body as much as anybody else's.
[1:41:08] Bob Dobbs: Trump's chemical body then gradually,
[1:41:10] Bob Dobbs: cautiously accepted its fate in the Android meme.
[1:41:14] Bob Dobbs: which is the synergy of all the paramedia in play between June 16,
[1:41:18] Bob Dobbs: 2015,
[1:41:20] Bob Dobbs: and November 8,
[1:41:20] Bob Dobbs: 2016.
[1:41:23] Bob Dobbs: That's the election day.
[1:41:26] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.
[1:41:27] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[1:41:28] Bob Dobbs: So in the 2014-2016 period,
[1:41:32] Bob Dobbs: the Android meme flipped into what I call the Rumpelstiltskin effect.
[1:41:37] Bob Dobbs: And Rumpelstiltskin is the ground of the Tiny Note chart.
[1:41:39] Bob Dobbs: It's a pathologizing of the furthest...
[1:41:43] Bob Dobbs: extremes of what science fiction thinkers conceive as artificial intelligence.
[1:41:48] Bob Dobbs: So the Android meme is merging or completing the
[1:41:54] Bob Dobbs: AI, and it's personified by Trump as Rumpelstiltskin,
[1:42:02] Bob Dobbs: anthropomorphized.
[1:42:04] Bob Dobbs: Whatever you can imagine in terms of the most drastic consequences for the human being under the most frightening scenarios accompanying the birth of artificial intelligence,
[1:42:13] Bob Dobbs: is where we arrived around 2014,
[1:42:15] Bob Dobbs: believe it or not.
[1:42:17] Bob Dobbs: So I'm saying the most drastic things you could think of,
[1:42:22] Bob Dobbs: and then the idea of
[1:42:23] Bob Dobbs: AI taking over,
[1:42:24] Bob Dobbs: all those science fiction horrors,
[1:42:27] Bob Dobbs: is where we arrived in 2014,
[1:42:30] Bob Dobbs: just before the figure of a Trump.
[1:42:33] Bob Dobbs: The tech body popped out of the Android meme.
[1:42:37] Bob Dobbs: Now,
[1:42:37] Bob Dobbs: I think I checked with iON once we were talking about the tech body,
[1:42:40] Bob Dobbs: you know,
[1:42:41] Bob Dobbs: iON names that...
[1:42:42] Bob Dobbs: the phenomenon tech body.
[1:42:43] Bob Dobbs: I think it was agreed around 2014,
[1:42:46] Bob Dobbs: just before Trump is when it kind of became a figure and ground.
[1:42:51] Bob Dobbs: The tech body popped out of,
[1:42:53] Bob Dobbs: so I'm explaining both figure and ground here.
[1:42:55] Bob Dobbs: That was the original quote.
[1:42:57] Bob Dobbs: The tech body popped out of the Android meme,
[1:42:59] Bob Dobbs: creating the age of rational insanity.
[1:43:01] Bob Dobbs: Rational insanity.
[1:43:03] Bob Dobbs: That's a good one.
[1:43:06] Cameron McEwen: It's very good.
[1:43:07] Cameron McEwen: It's precise.
[1:43:09] Bob Dobbs: I forgot that I coined that.
[1:43:10] Bob Dobbs: Age of rational insanity.
[1:43:12] Bob Dobbs: Many have projected onto what they perceive as machines out of control.
[1:43:16] Bob Dobbs: That was the popular cliché.
[1:43:20] Bob Dobbs: This allowed a chemical body who was not a superlative nobody.
[1:43:23] Bob Dobbs: So I'm quoting McLuhan,
[1:43:25] Bob Dobbs: the automated presidential surrogate is a superlative nobody.
[1:43:31] Bob Dobbs: This allowed a chemical body who was not.
[1:43:32] Bob Dobbs: So a lot of flipping going on here.
[1:43:34] Bob Dobbs: The tech body is flipping out of the Android meme.
[1:43:38] Bob Dobbs: So it becomes,
[1:43:39] Bob Dobbs: charismatically,
[1:43:40] Bob Dobbs: somebody you wouldn't want to know.
[1:43:42] Bob Dobbs: Also,
[1:43:42] Bob Dobbs: not a superlative nobody.
[1:43:45] Bob Dobbs: To hijack the automated presidential surrogate anti-environment.
[1:43:49] Bob Dobbs: Remember,
[1:43:49] Bob Dobbs: the president is the anti-environment.
[1:43:52] Bob Dobbs: This brings us to the new environment of the tech body,
[1:43:54] Bob Dobbs: wherein the best that we can say about the Android meme is that the tech body turned the digital Android meme into an art form,
[1:44:00] Bob Dobbs: or the genuine fake.
[1:44:02] Bob Dobbs: And that's both phases.
[1:44:04] Bob Dobbs: So,
[1:44:07] Bob Dobbs: I used to...
[1:44:07] Bob Dobbs: Back in 2018 or so,
[1:44:10] Bob Dobbs: Mark Stahlman used to say,
[1:44:11] Bob Dobbs: here's Bob Dobbs talking about the Android meme once again,
[1:44:15] Bob Dobbs: this whole hackneyed thing.
[1:44:17] Bob Dobbs: He didn't know.
[1:44:18] Bob Dobbs: He didn't notice and read my stuff enough to know I'd gone past the Android meme.
[1:44:23] Bob Dobbs: I'd gone into the tech body.
[1:44:24] Bob Dobbs: So he had an egg on his face.
[1:44:27] Cameron McEwen: Doesn't the Android meme have a plurality of faces always?
[1:44:35] Cameron McEwen: And the tech body is going to be one of those faces.
[1:44:39] Bob Dobbs: It's hard to say what the tech body is.
[1:44:44] Bob Dobbs: It includes angels,
[1:44:45] Bob Dobbs: aliens,
[1:44:46] Bob Dobbs: and...
[1:44:50] Bob Dobbs: living technology.
[1:44:53] Bob Dobbs: So,
[1:44:57] Bob Dobbs: into an art form,
[1:44:58] Bob Dobbs: the genuine fake.
[1:45:00] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[1:45:01] Cameron McEwen: but let's just go back for a second.
[1:45:05] Cameron McEwen: Does the tech body add anything new to the Android meme,
[1:45:10] Cameron McEwen: or does it merely specify one of its possibilities?
[1:45:18] Bob Dobbs: No,
[1:45:18] Bob Dobbs: the Android meme's got all the bodies.
[1:45:20] Bob Dobbs: And then a monster comes out of it.
[1:45:23] Bob Dobbs: Or a great service.
[1:45:25] Bob Dobbs: iON,
[1:45:25] Bob Dobbs: remember,
[1:45:26] Bob Dobbs: iON named it.
[1:45:27] Bob Dobbs: iON,
[1:45:28] Bob Dobbs: he laid out,
[1:45:29] Bob Dobbs: this is different from the Android meme.
[1:45:31] Bob Dobbs: Everybody's going to be nice and comfortable if they just accept it.
[1:45:36] Bob Dobbs: And have no identity,
[1:45:37] Bob Dobbs: the tech body will serve all their needs.
[1:45:40] Bob Dobbs: So that's the utopian massage of the tech body.
[1:45:45] Bob Dobbs: It's not completely a horror.
[1:45:48] Bob Dobbs: It eventually has a huge disservice because you're trapped in your comfort,
[1:45:54] Bob Dobbs: and that can be a problem.
[1:45:57] Bob Dobbs: So what was I going to say?
[1:46:05] Bob Dobbs: So we're trying to explore.
[1:46:07] Bob Dobbs: The whole book has been an exploration of what is the tech body.
[1:46:11] Bob Dobbs: So I laid out all the possible antecedent definitions of leading into it.
[1:46:17] Bob Dobbs: But now we're in the middle trying to say what it is.
[1:46:19] Bob Dobbs: And we know we can't say what it is.
[1:46:22] Bob Dobbs: You don't want to say what it is.
[1:46:24] Bob Dobbs: But,
[1:46:26] Bob Dobbs: oh,
[1:46:26] Bob Dobbs: yeah,
[1:46:27] Bob Dobbs: my simple first definition,
[1:46:29] Bob Dobbs: people say,
[1:46:29] Bob Dobbs: well,
[1:46:29] Bob Dobbs: how is the tech body different than the Android meme?
[1:46:31] Bob Dobbs: I say the tech body is the Android meme becoming psychopathic.
[1:46:35] Bob Dobbs: Now,
[1:46:35] Bob Dobbs: that's the negative side of it.
[1:46:37] Bob Dobbs: What would be becoming a utopia of body completions,
[1:46:43] Bob Dobbs: maybe?
[1:46:46] Bob Dobbs: Multiple body satisfactions,
[1:46:49] Bob Dobbs: which I don't say enough.
[1:46:50] Bob Dobbs: I just mentioned the horror part of it.
[1:46:53] Cameron McEwen: We'd have to differentiate,
[1:46:55] Cameron McEwen: I think,
[1:46:56] Cameron McEwen: between the family within the ads back in the
[1:47:05] Cameron McEwen: 50s and 60s.
[1:47:06] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[1:47:06] Cameron McEwen: You know,
[1:47:07] Cameron McEwen: the ideal family with no body odors,
[1:47:10] Cameron McEwen: with no problems.
[1:47:14] Cameron McEwen: with no death in the family.
[1:47:16] Bob Dobbs: And gas in the car tank.
[1:47:21] Cameron McEwen: So we'd have to differentiate between that form of comfort and presumably the tech body comfort would be different from that.
[1:47:32] Cameron McEwen: It would be a comfort that wasn't blinded to human limitation.
[1:47:44] Bob Dobbs: This came up in office hours today.
[1:47:49] Bob Dobbs: Do I have it here?
[1:47:53] Bob Dobbs: Zappa came up with something called the Central Scrutinizer,
[1:47:57] Bob Dobbs: and his description of Central Scrutinizer is amazing.
[1:48:02] Bob Dobbs: And it took me a while to find it.
[1:48:04] Bob Dobbs: It's on the album
[1:48:06] Bob Dobbs: Joe's Garage.
[1:48:08] Bob Dobbs: Now,
[1:48:08] Bob Dobbs: did I make,
[1:48:09] Bob Dobbs: did I quote it to myself?
[1:48:12] Bob Dobbs: I'm just looking here,
[1:48:15] Cameron McEwen: The word you're using is scrutinizer?
[1:48:17] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[1:48:20] Bob Dobbs: In his opera called Joe's Garage,
[1:48:22] Bob Dobbs: it was three vinyl albums,
[1:48:25] Bob Dobbs: three discs in 79.
[1:48:29] Bob Dobbs: It's a bit of the history of rock.
[1:48:30] Bob Dobbs: And he has a narrator,
[1:48:33] Bob Dobbs: this digital voice,
[1:48:36] Bob Dobbs: which is called the central scrutinizer.
[1:48:40] Bob Dobbs: So that's like the central...
[1:48:43] Bob Dobbs: surveillance of Big Brother digitized.
[1:48:48] Bob Dobbs: So his description of the...
[1:48:54] Bob Dobbs: See,
[1:48:54] Bob Dobbs: what I'm going to send you is the picture of...
[1:48:58] Bob Dobbs: So there's all these people who attempted to visualize the central scrutinizer,
[1:49:04] Bob Dobbs: and it's actually not a bad attempt to show the tech body.
[1:49:08] Bob Dobbs: So what you were trying to say...
[1:49:13] Bob Dobbs: See what I got here?
[1:49:16] Bob Dobbs: See if I've got
[1:49:18] Bob Dobbs: Joe's Garage.
[1:49:19] Bob Dobbs: Okay,
[1:49:20] Bob Dobbs: there it is.
[1:49:20] Bob Dobbs: So you've got a picture.
[1:49:23] Bob Dobbs: Now here is the image of the central scrutinizer that Zappa lays out on the album cover.
[1:49:33] Bob Dobbs: Now listen to this.
[1:49:33] Bob Dobbs: This is really good.
[1:49:34] Bob Dobbs: He says,
[1:49:35] Bob Dobbs: so this is in 1978-79.
[1:49:39] Bob Dobbs: 40 years ago.
[1:49:40] Bob Dobbs: He says sometimes when you're not looking,
[1:49:42] Bob Dobbs: he just sneaks up on you.
[1:49:44] Bob Dobbs: He looks like a cheap sort of flying saucer about five feet across with a snout-like megaphone apparatus in the front with two big eyes mounted like appletons with miniature motorized frowning chrome eyebrows over them.
[1:50:03] Bob Dobbs: Along the side of his disc-like body are several sets of stupid-looking headers
[1:50:08] Bob Dobbs: and exhaust hoses,
[1:50:10] Bob Dobbs: which apparently propel him and punctuate his dialogue with horrible-smelling smoke rings.
[1:50:17] Bob Dobbs: In the middle of his head,
[1:50:18] Bob Dobbs: we can see an airport windsock and constantly twirling anemometer.
[1:50:24] Bob Dobbs: A-N-E-M-O-M-E-T-E-R,
[1:50:27] Bob Dobbs: so anemometer,
[1:50:29] Bob Dobbs: anominator.
[1:50:31] Bob Dobbs: The bottom of him has a landing light and three spoked wheels.
[1:50:38] Bob Dobbs: Then it continues down below.
[1:50:40] Bob Dobbs: In spite of all this,
[1:50:41] Bob Dobbs: it is obvious that the way he really gets around is by being dangled from place to place by a union guy with a dark green shirt up in the roof who is eating a sandwich,
[1:50:53] Bob Dobbs: pieces of which drop off every once in a while and lodge themselves near the hole where they put the oil in that makes the cheap smoke.
[1:51:01] Bob Dobbs: He hovers into view and speaks to us thusly.
[1:51:05] Bob Dobbs: So here's what the...
[1:51:07] Bob Dobbs: Central Scrutinizer says in introducing himself,
[1:51:09] Bob Dobbs: or itself,
[1:51:11] Bob Dobbs: this is the Central Scrutinizer.
[1:51:13] Bob Dobbs: It is my responsibility to enforce all the laws that haven't been passed yet.
[1:51:18] Bob Dobbs: It is also my responsibility to alert each and every one of you to the potential consequences of various ordinary everyday activities you might be performing,
[1:51:26] Bob Dobbs: which could eventually lead to the death penalty,
[1:51:29] Bob Dobbs: and then brackets,
[1:51:30] Bob Dobbs: or affect your parents'
[1:51:31] Bob Dobbs: credit rating.
[1:51:36] Bob Dobbs: Our criminal institutions are full of little creeps like you who do wrong things.
[1:51:41] Bob Dobbs: This is what the central scrutinizer is saying to us.
[1:51:44] Bob Dobbs: And many that were driven to these crimes by a horrible force called music.
[1:51:49] Bob Dobbs: Our studies have shown that this horrible force is so dangerous to society at large that laws are being drawn up at this very moment to stop it forever.
[1:51:58] Bob Dobbs: Cruel and inhuman punishments are being carefully described in tiny paragraphs so they won't conflict with the Constitution.
[1:52:06] Bob Dobbs: which itself is being modified in order to accommodate the future.
[1:52:10] Bob Dobbs: It's in capital letters,
[1:52:11] Bob Dobbs: the future.
[1:52:13] Bob Dobbs: I bring you now a special presentation to show what can happen to you if you choose a career in music.
[1:52:19] Bob Dobbs: The white zone is for loading and unloading only.
[1:52:22] Bob Dobbs: If you have to load or unload,
[1:52:23] Bob Dobbs: go to the white zone.
[1:52:25] Bob Dobbs: You'll love it.
[1:52:26] Bob Dobbs: It's a way of life.
[1:52:28] Bob Dobbs: Then there's some music,
[1:52:29] Bob Dobbs: and then he's back.
[1:52:31] Bob Dobbs: He says,
[1:52:31] Bob Dobbs: hi,
[1:52:31] Bob Dobbs: it's me.
[1:52:32] Bob Dobbs: I'm back.
[1:52:32] Bob Dobbs: This is a central scrutinizer.
[1:52:35] Bob Dobbs: The white zone is for loading and unloading only.
[1:52:38] Bob Dobbs: If you've got to load,
[1:52:39] Bob Dobbs: if you've got to unload,
[1:52:40] Bob Dobbs: go to the white zone.
[1:52:41] Bob Dobbs: You'll love it.
[1:52:42] Bob Dobbs: It's a way of life.
[1:52:43] Bob Dobbs: That's right.
[1:52:44] Bob Dobbs: You'll love it.
[1:52:44] Bob Dobbs: It's a way of life.
[1:52:45] Bob Dobbs: That's right.
[1:52:45] Bob Dobbs: You'll love it.
[1:52:46] Bob Dobbs: A way of life.
[1:52:47] Bob Dobbs: Right.
[1:52:47] Bob Dobbs: Love it.
[1:52:48] Bob Dobbs: This is the central scrutinizer.
[1:52:51] Bob Dobbs: And then it goes into some music.
[1:52:52] Bob Dobbs: So that's how it starts off.
[1:52:54] Bob Dobbs: But the drawing is incredible.
[1:52:56] Bob Dobbs: So I will send you a link to this page and one person's attempt to draw the central scrutinizer.
[1:53:03] Bob Dobbs: So,
[1:53:03] Bob Dobbs: um...
[1:53:06] Bob Dobbs: That is the tech body.
[1:53:08] Bob Dobbs: I'll give Zapper credit.
[1:53:09] Bob Dobbs: You know,
[1:53:10] Bob Dobbs: he's the ground of the Tiny Note chart,
[1:53:14] Bob Dobbs: which is occurring to me now,
[1:53:15] Bob Dobbs: a new,
[1:53:17] Bob Dobbs: rational,
[1:53:18] Bob Dobbs: insane fucking appreciation of what I did unconsciously is that his central scrutinizer is the tech body,
[1:53:25] Bob Dobbs: which is going to come out of the Tiny Note chart.
[1:53:29] Bob Dobbs: I just discovered that now.
[1:53:31] Bob Dobbs: But,
[1:53:32] Bob Dobbs: I mean,
[1:53:32] Bob Dobbs: you've got a bit of the imagery,
[1:53:33] Bob Dobbs: right?
[1:53:33] Bob Dobbs: It's pretty weird.
[1:53:34] Bob Dobbs: It's a realistic collage of technology and different things.
[1:53:38] Bob Dobbs: It's got all the bodies in it.
[1:53:40] Bob Dobbs: You can take those words and find something.
[1:53:43] Cameron McEwen: It's an interesting flip for the Tiny Note chart,
[1:53:46] Cameron McEwen: right?
[1:53:46] Bob Dobbs: Yes.
[1:53:48] Cameron McEwen: The Tiny Note chart isn't coming to be some sort of diamond crystal in the sixth body.
[1:53:59] Cameron McEwen: Rather,
[1:53:59] Cameron McEwen: it's turning out to be a cracked crystal.
[1:54:04] Cameron McEwen: crystal of the tech body.
[1:54:07] Bob Dobbs: Yes.
[1:54:08] Bob Dobbs: Remember at the bottom of the chart it says waiting for,
[1:54:12] Bob Dobbs: no,
[1:54:12] Bob Dobbs: no.
[1:54:14] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[1:54:14] Bob Dobbs: yeah.
[1:54:15] Bob Dobbs: Waiting for organic bodies.
[1:54:17] Bob Dobbs: Now that's me predicting the AP,
[1:54:20] Bob Dobbs: desire for the AP.
[1:54:23] Bob Dobbs: And the different bodies interpreted by different fanatics of them as organic.
[1:54:28] Bob Dobbs: Waiting for organic bodies,
[1:54:30] Bob Dobbs: the spinning clothing crystals.
[1:54:33] Bob Dobbs: have danced the hex advertisement the advertisement for the hexatic the sixth level which is iONdom and our breakthrough so um
[1:54:45] Bob Dobbs: You mentioned the broken crystal and all that.
[1:54:47] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[1:54:48] Bob Dobbs: the tech body is the flip of the spinning clothing crystals.
[1:54:53] Bob Dobbs: It's a broken crystal.
[1:54:54] Cameron McEwen: I like the word cracked because that could not only mean broken,
[1:54:59] Cameron McEwen: it could mean crazy,
[1:55:01] Cameron McEwen: right?
[1:55:02] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[1:55:02] Bob Dobbs: what?
[1:55:03] Bob Dobbs: Did we talk about cracked in the last two hours?
[1:55:06] Cameron McEwen: No.
[1:55:07] Bob Dobbs: Okay,
[1:55:08] Bob Dobbs: sometimes I mix up what I've said or what's been said on office hours.
[1:55:11] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[1:55:11] Bob Dobbs: we talked a lot about the word cracked today.
[1:55:14] Cameron McEwen: Oh,
[1:55:14] Cameron McEwen: look at that.
[1:55:15] Cameron McEwen: We're replaying it.
[1:55:18] Bob Dobbs: Well,
[1:55:19] Bob Dobbs: I've noticed in my day,
[1:55:21] Bob Dobbs: something will happen in the morning and it will be echoed
[1:55:24] Bob Dobbs: 10 hours later at night.
[1:55:27] Bob Dobbs: So it's all resonating in the moment of the day.
[1:55:30] Bob Dobbs: It's all one moment.
[1:55:32] Bob Dobbs: So this crack is an example.
[1:55:34] Bob Dobbs: We talked about crack for different reasons there many hours ago,
[1:55:38] Bob Dobbs: and now it comes up again in a new way.
[1:55:42] Cameron McEwen: Earlier,
[1:55:42] Cameron McEwen: earlier...
[1:55:43] Cameron McEwen: we were talking about something and you said,
[1:55:45] Cameron McEwen: we talked about that today.
[1:55:47] Bob Dobbs: Yes,
[1:55:47] Cameron McEwen: that's right.
[1:55:48] Cameron McEwen: In office hours.
[1:55:49] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[1:55:49] Bob Dobbs: and then now I'm recognizing the synchronicity,
[1:55:51] Bob Dobbs: which I'm always pointing out,
[1:55:53] Bob Dobbs: of that,
[1:55:53] Bob Dobbs: the simultaneity of my day.
[1:55:55] Bob Dobbs: It happens a lot.
[1:55:56] Bob Dobbs: Maybe it happens in your life too.
[1:55:58] Bob Dobbs: But
[1:55:59] Bob Dobbs: I often see that...
[1:56:01] Cameron McEwen: I'm the guy that insists on that,
[1:56:03] Cameron McEwen: Bob.
[1:56:04] Cameron McEwen: You're the guy that likes talking about the 24 hours.
[1:56:07] Bob Dobbs: Right.
[1:56:07] Bob Dobbs: You write it,
[1:56:08] Bob Dobbs: I talk it.
[1:56:12] Bob Dobbs: Eye,
[1:56:13] Bob Dobbs: ear.
[1:56:13] Bob Dobbs: Okay,
[1:56:14] Bob Dobbs: so yeah,
[1:56:16] Bob Dobbs: it's a crack situation.
[1:56:19] Bob Dobbs: The genuine fake.
[1:56:21] Bob Dobbs: I don't think you call art forms genuine fakes.
[1:56:24] Bob Dobbs: Actually,
[1:56:24] Bob Dobbs: they seem to be real to people,
[1:56:26] Bob Dobbs: super real.
[1:56:27] Bob Dobbs: So art form is a dubious situation in Android meme and tech body situations.
[1:56:32] Bob Dobbs: So at best,
[1:56:33] Bob Dobbs: it can be called a genuine fake.
[1:56:35] Bob Dobbs: So then I say the post-holeopathic,
[1:56:38] Bob Dobbs: cliche probe.
[1:56:40] Bob Dobbs: probe from McLuhan,
[1:56:42] Bob Dobbs: refused to become a meme.
[1:56:44] Bob Dobbs: What the heck do they mean by that?
[1:56:47] Bob Dobbs: Okay,
[1:56:47] Bob Dobbs: the tech body,
[1:56:49] Bob Dobbs: okay,
[1:56:49] Bob Dobbs: that's what the tech body is.
[1:56:50] Bob Dobbs: It refuses to be included into the Android meme.
[1:56:54] Bob Dobbs: It's an attempt to free itself.
[1:56:57] Bob Dobbs: And the Android meme is all holeopathic processes and cliche probes.
[1:57:00] Bob Dobbs: That's all through the chart.
[1:57:02] Bob Dobbs: So yeah,
[1:57:03] Bob Dobbs: that's a definition.
[1:57:05] Bob Dobbs: I'm meaning the tech body refused to become a meme.
[1:57:08] Bob Dobbs: And of course,
[1:57:09] Bob Dobbs: the American White House,
[1:57:10] Bob Dobbs: being the word that makes the market,
[1:57:12] Bob Dobbs: New York Times op-ed by McLuhan,
[1:57:14] Bob Dobbs: September 21st,
[1:57:14] Bob Dobbs: 1974,
[1:57:15] Bob Dobbs: the process of the holeopathic cliche probe had to catch up.
[1:57:19] Bob Dobbs: Voila,
[1:57:20] Bob Dobbs: Trumpism
[1:57:23] Bob Dobbs: Don Trump does not have to speak in complete sentences.
[1:57:26] Bob Dobbs: He creates involvement by engaging the verbum.
[1:57:30] Bob Dobbs: See McLuhan on stuttering.
[1:57:32] Bob Dobbs: HCE stutters in Finnegans Wake,
[1:57:34] Bob Dobbs: and he has an interesting tetrad on verbum.
[1:57:36] Bob Dobbs: I think I have it here.
[1:57:38] Bob Dobbs: But the...
[1:57:38] Bob Dobbs: Next page.
[1:57:41] Bob Dobbs: Now look,
[1:57:41] Bob Dobbs: I'm writing this.
[1:57:43] Bob Dobbs: Nobody's writing about...
[1:57:45] Bob Dobbs: This is unique.
[1:57:46] Bob Dobbs: This is equal to McLuhan explaining the
[1:57:48] Bob Dobbs: Nixon-Kennedy debates.
[1:57:51] Bob Dobbs: This is very good what I'm doing.
[1:57:52] Bob Dobbs: I'm saying,
[1:57:53] Bob Dobbs: look,
[1:57:53] Bob Dobbs: this Trump is way beyond your fucking derangement issues.
[1:57:57] Bob Dobbs: You know what I mean?
[1:57:58] Bob Dobbs: There's something going on with this phenomenon.
[1:58:01] Bob Dobbs: And nobody got that.
[1:58:03] Bob Dobbs: They just thought he was a fucked up,
[1:58:05] Bob Dobbs: rich chemical body.
[1:58:06] Bob Dobbs: that was getting in the way of everything.
[1:58:10] Bob Dobbs: They didn't recognize the techno-android meme antecedents of this.
[1:58:14] Bob Dobbs: This is very significant.
[1:58:15] Bob Dobbs: I'm talking myself into celebrating myself once again.
[1:58:19] Cameron McEwen: But it's not quite right to say that nobody realized.
[1:58:24] Cameron McEwen: I mean,
[1:58:25] Cameron McEwen: in a sense,
[1:58:25] Cameron McEwen: everybody realized,
[1:58:27] Cameron McEwen: but didn't know what they realized.
[1:58:29] Bob Dobbs: They couldn't say it.
[1:58:31] Cameron McEwen: Right?
[1:58:31] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[1:58:32] Cameron McEwen: they couldn't say it,
[1:58:33] Cameron McEwen: couldn't see it.
[1:58:34] Cameron McEwen: I couldn't believe it.
[1:58:39] Cameron McEwen: The problem was that everybody was caught up,
[1:58:45] Cameron McEwen: either positively or negatively,
[1:58:47] Cameron McEwen: or positively and negatively,
[1:58:49] Cameron McEwen: etc.,
[1:58:50] Cameron McEwen: etc.
[1:58:51] Bob Dobbs: Quadrophenically,
[1:58:52] Bob Dobbs: they were caught up.
[1:58:53] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[1:58:54] Cameron McEwen: exactly.
[1:58:55] Cameron McEwen: But nobody was able to come to terms with it,
[1:58:59] Cameron McEwen: including him.
[1:59:00] Bob Dobbs: That's right.
[1:59:01] Cameron McEwen: He kept doing stuff.
[1:59:03] Cameron McEwen: that was panicked or ecstatic.
[1:59:07] Bob Dobbs: Hysterical,
[1:59:08] Bob Dobbs: ecstatic,
[1:59:09] Bob Dobbs: all of it,
[1:59:09] Bob Dobbs: yes.
[1:59:09] Cameron McEwen: And so he screwed up his own presidency with this.
[1:59:13] Bob Dobbs: What presidency,
[1:59:13] Bob Dobbs: what did you say was the verb?
[1:59:15] Cameron McEwen: He screwed up his own presidency through his fragmentation.
[1:59:19] Bob Dobbs: Which kept him charismatic.
[1:59:22] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[1:59:23] Bob Dobbs: He's going to jail.
[1:59:27] Bob Dobbs: That's incredible.
[1:59:28] Bob Dobbs: But listen.
[1:59:31] Bob Dobbs: Now,
[1:59:31] Bob Dobbs: iON was on this right away.
[1:59:34] Bob Dobbs: He told me,
[1:59:35] Bob Dobbs: like,
[1:59:35] Bob Dobbs: in early 2016 on the show one night,
[1:59:38] Bob Dobbs: probably in the archives,
[1:59:39] Bob Dobbs: Bob,
[1:59:40] Bob Dobbs: take a look at this Trump thing,
[1:59:42] Bob Dobbs: because I wasn't paying attention to anything like that.
[1:59:44] Bob Dobbs: I was too busy dealing with iON.
[1:59:47] Bob Dobbs: And so when I actually did take the time out to look at some broadcast he was doing,
[1:59:52] Bob Dobbs: this would be before he got elected,
[1:59:54] Bob Dobbs: I started watching him,
[1:59:55] Bob Dobbs: and I immediately,
[1:59:57] Bob Dobbs: I think we did it on the show,
[1:59:59] Bob Dobbs: we could sell this.
[2:00:01] Bob Dobbs: Bob recognized himself.
[2:00:02] Bob Dobbs: I started to laugh my head off.
[2:00:03] Bob Dobbs: I said,
[2:00:03] Bob Dobbs: he's doing me.
[2:00:05] Bob Dobbs: So they yelled out,
[2:00:06] Bob Dobbs: he's doing me.
[2:00:07] Bob Dobbs: Now,
[2:00:07] Bob Dobbs: what I meant was they showed him talking to the audience,
[2:00:10] Bob Dobbs: and he would look around and single out people and look at them and point at them and address them personally.
[2:00:16] Bob Dobbs: Do you know what I mean?
[2:00:17] Bob Dobbs: Did you ever notice that about him?
[2:00:19] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.
[2:00:20] Cameron McEwen: Well,
[2:00:20] Cameron McEwen: that's a TV thing.
[2:00:21] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[2:00:21] Bob Dobbs: but he did it.
[2:00:22] Cameron McEwen: People like to do that.
[2:00:23] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[2:00:24] Bob Dobbs: but he did it in politics.
[2:00:25] Bob Dobbs: That was not done in politics.
[2:00:27] Bob Dobbs: The first inkling of it was George Bush Jr.
[2:00:30] Bob Dobbs: in his debate with Gore.
[2:00:32] Bob Dobbs: Gore was up there pontificating,
[2:00:34] Bob Dobbs: and Trump,
[2:00:35] Bob Dobbs: I mean,
[2:00:36] Bob Dobbs: Bush recognized this ain't working,
[2:00:38] Bob Dobbs: and he's behind
[2:00:40] Bob Dobbs: Gore winking at the audience.
[2:00:43] Bob Dobbs: He was commenting on him in a nonverbal way.
[2:00:46] Bob Dobbs: That was the beginning of it.
[2:00:48] Bob Dobbs: And
[2:00:52] Bob Dobbs: Trump did it in a very interesting way.
[2:00:54] Bob Dobbs: He just looked at people,
[2:00:55] Bob Dobbs: pointed at them,
[2:00:55] Bob Dobbs: and...
[2:00:56] Bob Dobbs: and made jokes or ridiculous statements.
[2:00:59] Bob Dobbs: So for some reason,
[2:01:00] Bob Dobbs: I said,
[2:01:01] Bob Dobbs: he's doing me.
[2:01:03] Bob Dobbs: I don't know what I thought I was,
[2:01:05] Bob Dobbs: but
[2:01:06] Bob Dobbs: I recognized something.
[2:01:07] Bob Dobbs: So then
[2:01:08] Bob Dobbs: I didn't watch him anymore.
[2:01:10] Bob Dobbs: I just knew what he was doing.
[2:01:12] Bob Dobbs: And then I started talking about the tech body.
[2:01:15] Bob Dobbs: And then eventually we found out that the tech body was Trump.
[2:01:18] Bob Dobbs: So then I had something to say about it.
[2:01:20] Bob Dobbs: Then I started thinking,
[2:01:21] Bob Dobbs: oh,
[2:01:21] Bob Dobbs: I got something to write here.
[2:01:23] Bob Dobbs: And then I eventually produced this.
[2:01:25] Bob Dobbs: But the,
[2:01:25] Bob Dobbs: uh...
[2:01:27] Bob Dobbs: Meanwhile,
[2:01:28] Bob Dobbs: I find out that Trump's on our products.
[2:01:31] Bob Dobbs: Then Trump finds out about us.
[2:01:33] Bob Dobbs: Then some of his people meet with J.W.
[2:01:35] Bob Dobbs: And they say he either listens to the show or has people transcribe it.
[2:01:41] Bob Dobbs: Trump was following us.
[2:01:43] Bob Dobbs: So then
[2:01:44] Bob Dobbs: iON started saying,
[2:01:45] Bob Dobbs: Trump is Bob in the White House.
[2:01:47] Bob Dobbs: Now,
[2:01:48] Bob Dobbs: this is heady megalomaniac stuff that
[2:01:51] Bob Dobbs: I've had to,
[2:01:52] Bob Dobbs: what is it,
[2:01:53] Bob Dobbs: do the trapeze act with.
[2:01:55] Bob Dobbs: I had to fucking deal with this thing and public telling me this shit in front of these people and we had an important mission without going fucking nuts,
[2:02:02] Bob Dobbs: okay?
[2:02:03] Bob Dobbs: Now,
[2:02:04] Bob Dobbs: most people will say I did go nuts,
[2:02:08] Bob Dobbs: but I'm still healthy.
[2:02:09] Bob Dobbs: They can't deny I'm healthy,
[2:02:12] Bob Dobbs: even though I might be nuts.
[2:02:13] Bob Dobbs: So now we're in such extreme fucking conditions,
[2:02:17] Bob Dobbs: I can't even mention some of it.
[2:02:19] Bob Dobbs: You wouldn't believe where J.W.
[2:02:21] Bob Dobbs: is tonight or today where he is.
[2:02:23] Bob Dobbs: He is in...
[2:02:24] Bob Dobbs: One of the key headquarters in the world,
[2:02:26] Bob Dobbs: right to now,
[2:02:27] Bob Dobbs: just flew there today.
[2:02:29] Bob Dobbs: So,
[2:02:30] Bob Dobbs: you're right next to,
[2:02:31] Bob Dobbs: okay,
[2:02:32] Bob Dobbs: Cameron,
[2:02:33] Bob Dobbs: the more successful I am,
[2:02:34] Bob Dobbs: you're fucked.
[2:02:35] Bob Dobbs: You're going to be on the list of whatever it means to be associated with me.
[2:02:41] Bob Dobbs: So get ready to lay low,
[2:02:43] Bob Dobbs: as McLuhan would tell you.
[2:02:46] Bob Dobbs: Okay,
[2:02:48] Bob Dobbs: so I say Don Trump does not have to speak in complete sentences.
[2:02:51] Bob Dobbs: Now,
[2:02:52] Bob Dobbs: the tech body,
[2:02:53] Bob Dobbs: it out...
[2:02:53] Bob Dobbs: does Trump with Biden,
[2:02:56] Bob Dobbs: who can't complete his syllables.
[2:02:59] Bob Dobbs: See,
[2:02:59] Bob Dobbs: that's the progression there.
[2:03:02] Bob Dobbs: Trump couldn't complete his sentences.
[2:03:04] Bob Dobbs: Biden doesn't complete his syllables.
[2:03:07] Bob Dobbs: You should laugh when I say that.
[2:03:09] Bob Dobbs: That's a good lie.
[2:03:10] Cameron McEwen: I may have heard it a few times.
[2:03:12] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[2:03:12] Bob Dobbs: I have said it a few times.
[2:03:15] Bob Dobbs: So then the tetrad on verbum,
[2:03:17] Bob Dobbs: which is utterance.
[2:03:18] Bob Dobbs: So
[2:03:19] Bob Dobbs: Trump and Biden are utterers.
[2:03:21] Bob Dobbs: They're just primitive utterers,
[2:03:22] Bob Dobbs: grunt people.
[2:03:23] Bob Dobbs: to quote a Zappa movie called,
[2:03:26] Bob Dobbs: he made a film,
[2:03:26] Bob Dobbs: Captain Beefheart versus the Grunt People,
[2:03:29] Bob Dobbs: or tried to make it.
[2:03:30] Bob Dobbs: So what does it enhance?
[2:03:32] Bob Dobbs: It intensifies and crystallizes,
[2:03:34] Bob Dobbs: there's your crystal percept,
[2:03:36] Bob Dobbs: as word.
[2:03:38] Bob Dobbs: So word is also a thing.
[2:03:41] Bob Dobbs: Obsolescence is merely sensory via perceptual interplay.
[2:03:44] Bob Dobbs: Now that's tactility.
[2:03:46] Bob Dobbs: This is McLuhan's tetrad in Laws of Media,
[2:03:50] Bob Dobbs: June 1977.
[2:03:54] Bob Dobbs: in Etc magazine.
[2:03:56] Cameron McEwen: For thing in the intensifies line,
[2:04:04] Cameron McEwen: thing in
[2:04:05] Cameron McEwen: Latin is res.
[2:04:08] Cameron McEwen: And so it's not the word as thing as something sort of lying around.
[2:04:15] Cameron McEwen: It's the thing as it's the word as reality.
[2:04:18] Bob Dobbs: Right.
[2:04:19] Bob Dobbs: Or replay?
[2:04:21] Cameron McEwen: Could be.
[2:04:23] Bob Dobbs: You know,
[2:04:24] Bob Dobbs: I and God count to name all our products with RE.
[2:04:29] Bob Dobbs: The company's called Reset.
[2:04:30] Bob Dobbs: We've got Remite,
[2:04:32] Bob Dobbs: Remag,
[2:04:33] Bob Dobbs: RE.
[2:04:33] Bob Dobbs: Now,
[2:04:34] Bob Dobbs: that's interesting.
[2:04:34] Bob Dobbs: I might have known the importance of RE.
[2:04:37] Bob Dobbs: Maybe the tech body is an era of RE or the Android meme is an era of RE.
[2:04:45] Bob Dobbs: Since the Android meme is replaying everything,
[2:04:47] Bob Dobbs: it's a RE on many levels.
[2:04:49] Cameron McEwen: Absolutely.
[2:04:51] Bob Dobbs: Very good.
[2:04:52] Bob Dobbs: So it obsolesces the merely sensory via perceptual interplay.
[2:04:56] Bob Dobbs: Retrieval,
[2:04:57] Bob Dobbs: transfers of power from things to word as vortex.
[2:04:59] Bob Dobbs: So there's a tactile interplay between word and thing,
[2:05:02] Bob Dobbs: right?
[2:05:02] Bob Dobbs: They flip back and forth.
[2:05:05] Cameron McEwen: Yes.
[2:05:06] Bob Dobbs: And your sense of things was re,
[2:05:08] Bob Dobbs: so re as...
[2:05:11] Cameron McEwen: As reality and vortex as reality.
[2:05:14] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[2:05:15] Bob Dobbs: Hendiadys,
[2:05:16] Bob Dobbs: one by means of two.
[2:05:17] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.
[2:05:19] Bob Dobbs: Reverses into the conceptual.
[2:05:21] Bob Dobbs: Replay of meaning minus the experience.
[2:05:25] Bob Dobbs: So the utterance,
[2:05:29] Bob Dobbs: the early humans,
[2:05:31] Bob Dobbs: if there are such things,
[2:05:33] Bob Dobbs: are uttering,
[2:05:35] Bob Dobbs: they eventually,
[2:05:35] Bob Dobbs: someone comes up with a new extension,
[2:05:37] Bob Dobbs: the conceptual,
[2:05:39] Bob Dobbs: a fucking symbol or something they could all focus on.
[2:05:44] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[2:05:45] Cameron McEwen: but that's not only bad,
[2:05:48] Cameron McEwen: it's not only blinding.
[2:05:50] Cameron McEwen: It's also good and enlightening.
[2:05:53] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[2:05:53] Bob Dobbs: it creates order.
[2:05:54] Bob Dobbs: It's a technological extension.
[2:05:57] Cameron McEwen: The conceptual,
[2:05:58] Cameron McEwen: you could say,
[2:05:58] Cameron McEwen: is literate.
[2:06:00] Cameron McEwen: So the literate does blind,
[2:06:06] Cameron McEwen: but also enlightens.
[2:06:08] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[2:06:09] Bob Dobbs: well,
[2:06:09] Bob Dobbs: each environment is important.
[2:06:11] Bob Dobbs: It's an art form.
[2:06:11] Bob Dobbs: It probes your situation.
[2:06:13] Bob Dobbs: It's an anti-environment to yourself.
[2:06:14] Bob Dobbs: So that's the services of electricity,
[2:06:16] Bob Dobbs: or what
[2:06:17] Bob Dobbs: Kroker said.
[2:06:18] Bob Dobbs: he said for McLuhan technologies were epiphanies.
[2:06:22] Bob Dobbs: So that's important.
[2:06:23] Bob Dobbs: So the
[2:06:24] Bob Dobbs: Because
[2:06:25] Bob Dobbs: William R.
[2:06:26] Bob Dobbs: Thompson writes about the first scientists were women.
[2:06:30] Bob Dobbs: They would notch their periods with the lunar cycle.
[2:06:35] Bob Dobbs: You know,
[2:06:36] Bob Dobbs: they conceptualized,
[2:06:37] Bob Dobbs: you could say,
[2:06:39] Bob Dobbs: the process of being a woman by making patterns out of their menstrual cycle.
[2:06:47] Bob Dobbs: That's the first conceptual.
[2:06:48] Bob Dobbs: And blood is really important in iONdom.
[2:06:51] Bob Dobbs: So there's the blood is the first.
[2:06:55] Bob Dobbs: What is that?
[2:06:56] Bob Dobbs: Is blood an extension?
[2:06:58] Bob Dobbs: For women,
[2:06:59] Bob Dobbs: I guess it is.
[2:07:00] Bob Dobbs: It's their insides coming out.
[2:07:02] Cameron McEwen: Well,
[2:07:03] Cameron McEwen: the blood is an extension of the heart.
[2:07:06] Bob Dobbs: Oh,
[2:07:06] Bob Dobbs: yeah.
[2:07:06] Bob Dobbs: Right.
[2:07:08] Bob Dobbs: So,
[2:07:08] Bob Dobbs: yeah,
[2:07:08] Bob Dobbs: blood is a,
[2:07:10] Bob Dobbs: that could be a tactile medium.
[2:07:12] Bob Dobbs: It has everything in it.
[2:07:14] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[2:07:14] Cameron McEwen: it's a circulation.
[2:07:16] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[2:07:19] Bob Dobbs: So,
[2:07:19] Bob Dobbs: it reverses into the blood.
[2:07:21] Cameron McEwen: It's Finnegans Wake,
[2:07:22] Cameron McEwen: basically.
[2:07:23] Bob Dobbs: Yes.
[2:07:24] Bob Dobbs: So that's a good one.
[2:07:26] Bob Dobbs: That's a good tetrad,
[2:07:27] Bob Dobbs: very unknown tetrad,
[2:07:29] Bob Dobbs: verbum.
[2:07:30] Bob Dobbs: And so we're coming back to the most,
[2:07:32] Bob Dobbs: as McLuhan said,
[2:07:33] Bob Dobbs: where the most primitive scenes are retrieved.
[2:07:37] Bob Dobbs: Trump and Biden are very retrieved primitiveness.
[2:07:42] Cameron McEwen: Let's just go back to verbum for a second.
[2:07:45] Cameron McEwen: What's the name of the Jesuit in Toronto?
[2:07:51] Cameron McEwen: Lonergan.
[2:07:53] Cameron McEwen: his
[2:07:54] Cameron McEwen: first big book was Verbum.
[2:07:56] Bob Dobbs: Is that right?
[2:07:58] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[2:07:58] Bob Dobbs: I know about him.
[2:08:00] Bob Dobbs: He was the competition for McLuhan,
[2:08:02] Bob Dobbs: right?
[2:08:02] Bob Dobbs: In the 70s?
[2:08:03] Cameron McEwen: One of them,
[2:08:03] Cameron McEwen: yeah.
[2:08:05] Bob Dobbs: I don't know.
[2:08:06] Bob Dobbs: I never read anything by him,
[2:08:07] Bob Dobbs: but that's a good thing to note.
[2:08:11] Cameron McEwen: The book Verbum is about the word and Aquinas.
[2:08:16] Bob Dobbs: Okay.
[2:08:16] Bob Dobbs: The word and Aquinas.
[2:08:19] Cameron McEwen: Well,
[2:08:21] Cameron McEwen: I would say in more than...
[2:08:23] Bob Dobbs: In Aquinas.
[2:08:24] Bob Dobbs: Okay.
[2:08:26] Bob Dobbs: Oh,
[2:08:26] Bob Dobbs: listen,
[2:08:27] Bob Dobbs: when I was on the radio in
[2:08:28] Bob Dobbs: CKLN in the 80s,
[2:08:30] Bob Dobbs: I talked about my scene,
[2:08:32] Bob Dobbs: my inner circle was called Club 22.
[2:08:35] Bob Dobbs: So
[2:08:38] Bob Dobbs: I was just reading on the history of the formation of the Federal Reserve the other day,
[2:08:42] Bob Dobbs: and these oligarchs got together,
[2:08:46] Bob Dobbs: you know,
[2:08:47] Bob Dobbs: on an island off of Georgia.
[2:08:50] Bob Dobbs: What was it?
[2:08:52] Bob Dobbs: Jekyll Island,
[2:08:53] Bob Dobbs: I think,
[2:08:54] Bob Dobbs: and
[2:08:55] Bob Dobbs: Jekyll and Hyde.
[2:08:57] Bob Dobbs: And their operating budget when they first started the Federal Reserve was $22 million.
[2:09:06] Bob Dobbs: I don't think it was billion,
[2:09:07] Bob Dobbs: $22 million.
[2:09:09] Bob Dobbs: So they set up the Federal Reserve to control the economy with $22.
[2:09:17] Bob Dobbs: Then I was telling people today that in Who is Marshall McLuhan?
[2:09:20] Bob Dobbs: Do you have that book?
[2:09:23] Bob Dobbs: So he reads Zingrone's story.
[2:09:25] Bob Dobbs: He goes to the Windsor Arms Hotel.
[2:09:28] Bob Dobbs: So when that book came out,
[2:09:31] Bob Dobbs: 95 or so,
[2:09:32] Bob Dobbs: I was reading it and I read his essay and I looked up the Windsor Arms Hotel because Zappa used to stay at the Windsor
[2:09:39] Bob Dobbs: Arms Hotel when he played in Toronto.
[2:09:41] Bob Dobbs: And
[2:09:43] Bob Dobbs: I saw that it had Club 22 there,
[2:09:47] Bob Dobbs: a little bar or something called Club 22.
[2:09:52] Bob Dobbs: I said,
[2:09:52] Bob Dobbs: holy shit,
[2:09:53] Bob Dobbs: when I was on the radio in the
[2:09:55] Bob Dobbs: 80s, talking about Club 22,
[2:09:58] Bob Dobbs: some of the people would think I'm talking about Windsor Arms Hotel.
[2:10:03] Bob Dobbs: So I thought it was very significant because McLuhan is number 22 in his quadrant on my chart.
[2:10:09] Bob Dobbs: So,
[2:10:10] Bob Dobbs: you know,
[2:10:10] Bob Dobbs: and Frank Zingrone is FZ,
[2:10:12] Bob Dobbs: Frank Zappa.
[2:10:14] Bob Dobbs: So there's a lot of neat synchronicity there with Frank and Marshall,
[2:10:19] Bob Dobbs: which is important.
[2:10:20] Bob Dobbs: repentance by Zingrone that he should have spent more time with McLuhan in his life.
[2:10:26] Bob Dobbs: And that's what he talks about after what turned out to be his last time with McLuhan,
[2:10:30] Bob Dobbs: about six weeks before the stroke.
[2:10:34] Bob Dobbs: But they met at Club 22.
[2:10:38] Bob Dobbs: See,
[2:10:39] Bob Dobbs: more Dobbsian fucking hidden ground there.
[2:10:44] Bob Dobbs: I'm there talking about Club
[2:10:45] Bob Dobbs: 22 in the 80s,
[2:10:47] Bob Dobbs: and that is in Zingrone's...
[2:10:49] Bob Dobbs: private mind.
[2:10:50] Bob Dobbs: No one knows it yet.
[2:10:51] Bob Dobbs: That's where he had his last meeting with McLuhan.
[2:10:55] Bob Dobbs: So
[2:10:56] Bob Dobbs: I wanted to mention that.
[2:10:58] Bob Dobbs: Why?
[2:10:58] Bob Dobbs: Why am I mentioning that?
[2:11:03] Bob Dobbs: Did 22 come up here?
[2:11:05] Cameron McEwen: No,
[2:11:05] Cameron McEwen: I don't think so.
[2:11:06] Cameron McEwen: But of course,
[2:11:07] Cameron McEwen: 22 has to do with
[2:11:10] Cameron McEwen: Joyce a lot,
[2:11:11] Cameron McEwen: right?
[2:11:11] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[2:11:13] Cameron McEwen: All this stuff.
[2:11:13] Cameron McEwen: So that's a big theme.
[2:11:18] Cameron McEwen: that you may or may not want to get into at the present time.
[2:11:21] Bob Dobbs: Not right now,
[2:11:22] Bob Dobbs: no.
[2:11:22] Bob Dobbs: So listen,
[2:11:23] Bob Dobbs: look at this.
[2:11:23] Bob Dobbs: Don Trump,
[2:11:24] Bob Dobbs: the fast-talking illiterate.
[2:11:27] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.
[2:11:27] Bob Dobbs: That's good.
[2:11:28] Bob Dobbs: It's not post.
[2:11:29] Bob Dobbs: It's not ill.
[2:11:30] Bob Dobbs: It's not semi.
[2:11:31] Bob Dobbs: It's a,
[2:11:31] Bob Dobbs: you know,
[2:11:31] Bob Dobbs: like amoral.
[2:11:33] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.
[2:11:34] Cameron McEwen: Alpha privative,
[2:11:35] Cameron McEwen: it's called.
[2:11:36] Bob Dobbs: It's what?
[2:11:37] Cameron McEwen: It's called the alpha privative in Greek.
[2:11:41] Bob Dobbs: Alpha what?
[2:11:43] Cameron McEwen: Privative,
[2:11:45] Cameron McEwen: meaning the exclusionary a,
[2:11:48] Cameron McEwen: right?
[2:11:48] Cameron McEwen: Amoral means excluding morality.
[2:11:51] Cameron McEwen: Oh,
[2:11:51] Cameron McEwen: I see.
[2:11:53] Cameron McEwen: Excluding sexuality.
[2:11:55] Cameron McEwen: Apolitical.
[2:11:56] Cameron McEwen: Excluding the political.
[2:11:58] Bob Dobbs: And that's a privative as opposed to a genitive.
[2:12:02] Cameron McEwen: Correct.
[2:12:03] Bob Dobbs: Okay.
[2:12:04] Bob Dobbs: The fast-talking illiterate had tuned into the frequency of social media that a good number of chip bodies had occupied for 10 years.
[2:12:13] Bob Dobbs: Trump had perfect pitch for the previous era of voluntary ESB,
[2:12:17] Bob Dobbs: especially via the
[2:12:18] Bob Dobbs: Twitter environment slash situation slash milieu.
[2:12:22] Bob Dobbs: Milieu is another word for medium.
[2:12:24] Bob Dobbs: And McLuhan talked about the law of the situation,
[2:12:26] Bob Dobbs: so I put the three words together there at least once.
[2:12:29] Bob Dobbs: The ground,
[2:12:30] Bob Dobbs: the millennials and their children,
[2:12:33] Bob Dobbs: communicates as something akin to a complex ESP now.
[2:12:37] Bob Dobbs: Remember,
[2:12:37] Bob Dobbs: McLuhan talked about complex clairvoyance.
[2:12:40] Bob Dobbs: But our images and definitions of ESP aren't a very useful representation of this new clairaudience.
[2:12:47] Bob Dobbs: Robots.
[2:12:48] Bob Dobbs: Gutenberg effect,
[2:12:49] Bob Dobbs: as defined by McLuhan,
[2:12:50] Bob Dobbs: is an inappropriate and misleading term to describe what is making millennials happy today.
[2:12:57] Bob Dobbs: Trump is a full-blown quadrophrenic,
[2:12:58] Bob Dobbs: as anticipated by Wyndham Lewis.
[2:13:11] Bob Dobbs: Are you still there?
[2:13:12] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[2:13:13] Cameron McEwen: I'm here.
[2:13:14] Bob Dobbs: Okay,
[2:13:14] Bob Dobbs: so you're following here.
[2:13:15] Bob Dobbs: Robot.
[2:13:16] Cameron McEwen: I'm following you precisely.
[2:13:18] Bob Dobbs: I thought you were distracted by background.
[2:13:21] Cameron McEwen: I was distracted by trying to get the sick dog out the door,
[2:13:24] Cameron McEwen: but he's gone now.
[2:13:26] Bob Dobbs: Okay,
[2:13:26] Bob Dobbs: good.
[2:13:27] Bob Dobbs: Trump is a full-blown quadrophrenic as anticipated by Wyndham Lewis.
[2:13:31] Bob Dobbs: Now,
[2:13:31] Bob Dobbs: this is my greatest discovery in Wyndham Lewis studies.
[2:13:35] Bob Dobbs: 1929,
[2:13:37] Bob Dobbs: in his magazine The Enemy,
[2:13:39] Bob Dobbs: volume 3,
[2:13:40] Bob Dobbs: page 70,
[2:13:40] Bob Dobbs: he says,
[2:13:42] Bob Dobbs: Now,
[2:13:42] Bob Dobbs: disregard if you can whatever your political views may be,
[2:13:45] Bob Dobbs: and then in brackets,
[2:13:46] Bob Dobbs: And mine are partly communist and partly fascist,
[2:13:49] Bob Dobbs: with a distinct streak of monarchism in my Marxism,
[2:13:53] Bob Dobbs: but at bottom,
[2:13:55] Bob Dobbs: anarchist with a healthy passion for order.
[2:13:57] Bob Dobbs: Fuckin'
[2:13:58] Bob Dobbs: there it is,
[2:13:58] Bob Dobbs: quadrophrenia,
[2:13:59] Bob Dobbs: right laid out for us.
[2:14:02] Bob Dobbs: And I made that my theme at Bath University in July 2014 at the Wyndham Lewis Conference.
[2:14:09] Bob Dobbs: I explained how
[2:14:10] Bob Dobbs: Lewis predicted he was the new Benjamin Spock.
[2:14:14] Bob Dobbs: for the 21st century,
[2:14:15] Bob Dobbs: that these kids are quadrophrenic,
[2:14:17] Bob Dobbs: and he laid it out.
[2:14:19] Bob Dobbs: And so that guy,
[2:14:20] Bob Dobbs: Ivan Phillips,
[2:14:21] Bob Dobbs: thought I was trying to take over with this new all-encompassing interpretation of a few words by Lewis.
[2:14:26] Bob Dobbs: But I think it's great.
[2:14:28] Bob Dobbs: It still stands up.
[2:14:29] Bob Dobbs: You get it?
[2:14:30] Bob Dobbs: Pretty good,
[2:14:31] Bob Dobbs: eh?
[2:14:31] Bob Dobbs: Yep.
[2:14:32] Cameron McEwen: Yep.
[2:14:32] Cameron McEwen: Excellent.
[2:14:33] Bob Dobbs: I mean,
[2:14:34] Bob Dobbs: they say,
[2:14:34] Bob Dobbs: you know,
[2:14:35] Bob Dobbs: Trump's a dictator.
[2:14:36] Bob Dobbs: He's a fascist.
[2:14:37] Bob Dobbs: They don't say he's a communist,
[2:14:38] Bob Dobbs: but maybe some people would.
[2:14:40] Bob Dobbs: New Yorker.
[2:14:42] Bob Dobbs: Monarchism in his Marxism.
[2:14:44] Bob Dobbs: Anarchists with a healthy passion for order,
[2:14:45] Bob Dobbs: it's all there in Trumpism.
[2:14:48] Bob Dobbs: And then I line up the different bodies with each one of those things.
[2:14:53] Bob Dobbs: I think the astrobody is communism.
[2:14:58] Bob Dobbs: Marxism is the illiterate text.
[2:15:02] Bob Dobbs: So that is the...
[2:15:10] Bob Dobbs: What is it?
[2:15:10] Bob Dobbs: Okay,
[2:15:11] Bob Dobbs: so...
[2:15:12] Bob Dobbs: Fascist is chemical body,
[2:15:17] Bob Dobbs: communist is astral body,
[2:15:19] Bob Dobbs: monarchism is the chip body where you're through the co-anesthesia,
[2:15:25] Bob Dobbs: you're king or queen of your multi-bodied chip environment.
[2:15:31] Cameron McEwen: So Marxism must be the TV body.
[2:15:34] Bob Dobbs: Yes,
[2:15:35] Bob Dobbs: and the anarchist is the fifth level,
[2:15:38] Bob Dobbs: the Dobson level.
[2:15:41] Bob Dobbs: Rumpelstiltskin.
[2:15:42] Cameron McEwen: And the healthy passion for order is the sixth.
[2:15:46] Bob Dobbs: Right,
[2:15:46] Bob Dobbs: so the monarchism,
[2:15:50] Bob Dobbs: chip body,
[2:15:51] Bob Dobbs: Marxism is TV body,
[2:15:53] Bob Dobbs: communist is astral body,
[2:15:55] Bob Dobbs: and fascist is chemical body.
[2:15:57] Bob Dobbs: Very good.
[2:15:59] Bob Dobbs: Anarchist is maybe the mystery body or the pentatic.
[2:16:12] Bob Dobbs: So then,
[2:16:13] Bob Dobbs: 175,
[2:16:13] Bob Dobbs: you get the tetrad on Trump.
[2:16:17] Bob Dobbs: Trump enhances the Rumpelstiltskin effect over the Android meme.
[2:16:22] Bob Dobbs: So,
[2:16:22] Bob Dobbs: yeah,
[2:16:23] Bob Dobbs: the...
[2:16:26] Bob Dobbs: The convergence of the four bodies turns you into a mystery body,
[2:16:33] Bob Dobbs: which now comes forth as iON explaining the mystery body.
[2:16:37] Bob Dobbs: And that's what everybody's becoming,
[2:16:39] Bob Dobbs: a rumpled still skin.
[2:16:41] Bob Dobbs: So the public is becoming that between 2009 and
[2:16:47] Bob Dobbs: 2018, say,
[2:16:48] Bob Dobbs: or something.
[2:16:50] Bob Dobbs: So you have a president mirror that,
[2:16:53] Bob Dobbs: echo that.
[2:16:54] Bob Dobbs: Every president...
[2:16:55] Bob Dobbs: It's reflecting the time.
[2:16:56] Bob Dobbs: I've done a little rap from Eisenhower on up,
[2:16:59] Bob Dobbs: how each president indicates the technological ratios of that period.
[2:17:04] Bob Dobbs: So he's Rumpelstiltskin.
[2:17:07] Bob Dobbs: He's tech body.
[2:17:08] Bob Dobbs: He's over the Android meme.
[2:17:10] Bob Dobbs: He obsolesces a continuous iconic TV image.
[2:17:15] Bob Dobbs: He retrieves the knight and vampire,
[2:17:18] Bob Dobbs: and he reverses into the image of an emperor-cum-saint.
[2:17:23] Bob Dobbs: And the prediction is like this will be lasered into Mount Rushmore at some point.
[2:17:29] Bob Dobbs: So is this all obvious to you?
[2:17:36] Cameron McEwen: No,
[2:17:36] Cameron McEwen: I wouldn't call it obvious.
[2:17:38] Cameron McEwen: But
[2:17:40] Cameron McEwen: I think what you're doing,
[2:17:41] Cameron McEwen: just as you were doing with putting the bodies together with
[2:17:46] Cameron McEwen: Wyndham Lewis's self-classification.
[2:17:50] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[2:17:52] Cameron McEwen: What you're doing here is you're kind of juggling all these things.
[2:17:56] Bob Dobbs: Yes.
[2:17:57] Cameron McEwen: I don't think that any one of these lines is an isolatable figure.
[2:18:05] Cameron McEwen: Right.
[2:18:07] Cameron McEwen: I mean,
[2:18:08] Cameron McEwen: it's a kaleidoscope.
[2:18:10] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[2:18:11] Bob Dobbs: mosaic mesh.
[2:18:11] Cameron McEwen: Where you're picking out images.
[2:18:14] Bob Dobbs: Mosaic mesh.
[2:18:16] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.
[2:18:17] Bob Dobbs: So I say it's 50-50.
[2:18:19] Cameron McEwen: A mud of muds.
[2:18:21] Bob Dobbs: What?
[2:18:22] Cameron McEwen: A mud of muds.
[2:18:23] Bob Dobbs: Right.
[2:18:27] Bob Dobbs: You say that right at 4.22 a.m.
[2:18:29] Bob Dobbs: here in Hawaii.
[2:18:30] Bob Dobbs: That's a good number,
[2:18:31] Bob Dobbs: 4.22.
[2:18:33] Bob Dobbs: I say it's 50-50.
[2:18:35] Bob Dobbs: Some people make him,
[2:18:36] Bob Dobbs: Donald J.
[2:18:37] Bob Dobbs: Trump,
[2:18:37] Bob Dobbs: a hero.
[2:18:38] Bob Dobbs: And being a medieval environment,
[2:18:40] Bob Dobbs: so he's a knight.
[2:18:41] Bob Dobbs: And others think he's evil.
[2:18:42] Bob Dobbs: He's a vampire.
[2:18:43] Bob Dobbs: And a vampire possesses things.
[2:18:45] Bob Dobbs: He's a special kind of evil.
[2:18:47] Bob Dobbs: It's a discarnate vampire.
[2:18:49] Bob Dobbs: And look,
[2:18:50] Bob Dobbs: he obsolesces the iconic TV image.
[2:18:52] Bob Dobbs: They don't know what he's going to do a half hour from now.
[2:18:56] Bob Dobbs: He's total discontinuity.
[2:18:57] Cameron McEwen: He doesn't either know.
[2:18:58] Bob Dobbs: What?
[2:18:59] Cameron McEwen: He doesn't know either.
[2:19:00] Bob Dobbs: That's right.
[2:19:02] Bob Dobbs: He's total discontinuity,
[2:19:03] Bob Dobbs: which is too shocking in the White House,
[2:19:05] Bob Dobbs: but he gets away with it.
[2:19:07] Bob Dobbs: Trump flips into the tech body.
[2:19:09] Bob Dobbs: He reverses into the image of emperor come saint.
[2:19:12] Bob Dobbs: If the tech body is right,
[2:19:14] Bob Dobbs: he's going to be an emperor,
[2:19:15] Bob Dobbs: even a viceroy.
[2:19:17] Bob Dobbs: And he'll be a saint because he'll do what he claims he did.
[2:19:20] Bob Dobbs: Now,
[2:19:20] Bob Dobbs: I was talking to me the other day about when Trump said he's going to be a dictator for one day.
[2:19:28] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.
[2:19:29] Bob Dobbs: And this is in light that there can be no president after Biden.
[2:19:32] Bob Dobbs: And he's not been president.
[2:19:33] Bob Dobbs: I mean,
[2:19:34] Bob Dobbs: after Obama.
[2:19:36] Bob Dobbs: So he hasn't been president.
[2:19:38] Bob Dobbs: Biden is certainly not president.
[2:19:40] Bob Dobbs: And so what's coming is viceroy.
[2:19:42] Bob Dobbs: And I said,
[2:19:44] Bob Dobbs: when you're a viceroy,
[2:19:45] Bob Dobbs: you're a dictator.
[2:19:46] Bob Dobbs: You're a representative of the empire in some province.
[2:19:49] Bob Dobbs: And so he is expressing viceroy-ness already before he becomes one,
[2:19:54] Bob Dobbs: officially.
[2:19:57] Bob Dobbs: So that's pretty good.
[2:19:58] Bob Dobbs: If the tech body is right,
[2:19:59] Bob Dobbs: he's going to be an emperor or even a viceroy,
[2:20:01] Bob Dobbs: and he'll be a saint because he'll do what he claims he did.
[2:20:05] Bob Dobbs: He'll do what he claims he did.
[2:20:07] Bob Dobbs: He'll claim he did something,
[2:20:08] Bob Dobbs: but other people probably will have done it.
[2:20:10] Bob Dobbs: And then he will be lasered into Mount Rushmore.
[2:20:13] Bob Dobbs: The tech body is all of these.
[2:20:14] Bob Dobbs: all happening at the same time.
[2:20:16] Bob Dobbs: See,
[2:20:16] Bob Dobbs: there's your simultaneous.
[2:20:17] Bob Dobbs: But then a larger context for the tech bodies,
[2:20:20] Bob Dobbs: Kroker's dark tetrad,
[2:20:22] Bob Dobbs: which is very interesting.
[2:20:23] Bob Dobbs: Because have you ever looked at his dark tetrad?
[2:20:26] Bob Dobbs: No.
[2:20:26] Bob Dobbs: Okay,
[2:20:27] Bob Dobbs: I think I do it here.
[2:20:28] Bob Dobbs: Because everything's disappeared.
[2:20:30] Bob Dobbs: And as I explained somewhere,
[2:20:33] Bob Dobbs: that's like what McLuhan would do.
[2:20:34] Bob Dobbs: As I said,
[2:20:36] Bob Dobbs: somewhere,
[2:20:37] Bob Dobbs: somebody,
[2:20:38] Bob Dobbs: and as I explained somewhere,
[2:20:40] Bob Dobbs: everything that happens after everything has disappeared,
[2:20:43] Bob Dobbs: is in a disappeared situation.
[2:20:46] Bob Dobbs: You don't enhance anything.
[2:20:47] Bob Dobbs: You disappear it.
[2:20:49] Bob Dobbs: Trump,
[2:20:49] Bob Dobbs: now this is explaining the dark tetrad.
[2:20:52] Bob Dobbs: Trump has added a new dimension,
[2:20:53] Bob Dobbs: which seems to be anticipated by Arthur Kroker's schema for the dark tetrad.
[2:20:58] Bob Dobbs: Now,
[2:20:59] Bob Dobbs: where is,
[2:21:00] Bob Dobbs: yeah,
[2:21:00] Bob Dobbs: we're coming up to it.
[2:21:01] Bob Dobbs: So this is...
[2:21:01] Cameron McEwen: Yeah,
[2:21:01] Cameron McEwen: this must be a quotation,
[2:21:03] Cameron McEwen: right?
[2:21:04] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[2:21:05] Bob Dobbs: it is.
[2:21:08] Bob Dobbs: I think it's in his book,
[2:21:10] Bob Dobbs: yeah.
[2:21:10] Bob Dobbs: Arthur Kroker,
[2:21:11] Bob Dobbs: Exits to the Post-Human Future,
[2:21:13] Bob Dobbs: 2014,
[2:21:14] Bob Dobbs: page 177.
[2:21:16] Bob Dobbs: So let's see what I say.
[2:21:25] Bob Dobbs: I'm going back up.
[2:21:29] Bob Dobbs: So here's what Kroker says.
[2:21:31] Bob Dobbs: On its positive transformative side,
[2:21:34] Bob Dobbs: the tetrad reveals the four laws of social media to be our very own data flesh.
[2:21:39] Bob Dobbs: What's enhanced,
[2:21:40] Bob Dobbs: what's retrieved,
[2:21:41] Bob Dobbs: what's rendered obsolete,
[2:21:42] Bob Dobbs: what's intensified to the point of reversal with every major technological innovation.
[2:21:47] Bob Dobbs: So just defining the tetrad.
[2:21:50] Bob Dobbs: However,
[2:21:51] Bob Dobbs: so I'll do that again.
[2:21:52] Bob Dobbs: On its positive transformative side,
[2:21:55] Bob Dobbs: so this is the light tetrad.
[2:21:57] Bob Dobbs: The tetrad reveals the four laws of social media to be our very own data flash.
[2:22:01] Bob Dobbs: What's enhanced,
[2:22:01] Bob Dobbs: what's retrieved,
[2:22:02] Bob Dobbs: what's rendered obsolete,
[2:22:03] Bob Dobbs: what's intensified to the point of reversal with every major technological innovation.
[2:22:07] Bob Dobbs: However,
[2:22:08] Bob Dobbs: viewed in mirror image on the side of what is disowned,
[2:22:12] Bob Dobbs: prohibited,
[2:22:13] Bob Dobbs: and excluded by new technological media,
[2:22:16] Bob Dobbs: the tetrad has another story to tell.
[2:22:19] Bob Dobbs: Now this is like antiparticles in physics.
[2:22:26] Bob Dobbs: This is...
[2:22:28] Bob Dobbs: the Android meme flipping into the psychopathic or tech body which is not just dark but we can use Kroker to illustrate the dark side of the tech body so
[2:22:44] Bob Dobbs: the mirror image is what's disowned prohibited and excluded that's what the tech body does to everybody so what it says what he actually says now I add in holeopathic effect
[2:22:56] Bob Dobbs: But his words are,
[2:22:58] Bob Dobbs: not what is enhanced,
[2:22:59] Bob Dobbs: but what is disappeared by very technological,
[2:23:02] Bob Dobbs: maybe it should be every,
[2:23:04] Bob Dobbs: by every technological innovation.
[2:23:07] Bob Dobbs: Not what is retrieved,
[2:23:08] Bob Dobbs: but what is abandoned by the fast technological recycling of the natural and social worlds.
[2:23:13] Bob Dobbs: Not what is obsolesced,
[2:23:15] Bob Dobbs: but what has been effectively substituted for that which has disappeared.
[2:23:19] Bob Dobbs: Not what is reversed,
[2:23:20] Bob Dobbs: but just the opposite,
[2:23:21] Bob Dobbs: what is held in place.
[2:23:22] Bob Dobbs: immobilized,
[2:23:23] Bob Dobbs: almost cryogenically frozen with the appearance of every new technological media of communication.
[2:23:29] Bob Dobbs: Then I add citadel of consciousness,
[2:23:31] Bob Dobbs: which is the fifth level,
[2:23:33] Bob Dobbs: the Dobbs quadrant.
[2:23:34] Bob Dobbs: So
[2:23:36] Bob Dobbs: I know what that means.
[2:23:37] Bob Dobbs: I've thought about it for a long time.
[2:23:38] Bob Dobbs: It's all new to you,
[2:23:39] Bob Dobbs: but so think about it.
[2:23:41] Bob Dobbs: These are holeopathic,
[2:23:42] Bob Dobbs: invisible effects and the dark side and very good.
[2:23:48] Bob Dobbs: I mean,
[2:23:50] Bob Dobbs: this...
[2:23:51] Cameron McEwen: When you...
[2:23:51] Cameron McEwen: When you use the phrase holeopathic effect,
[2:23:55] Cameron McEwen: you're talking,
[2:23:56] Cameron McEwen: you're using it in the sense of example of holeopathic effect?
[2:24:02] Bob Dobbs: Yes.
[2:24:02] Bob Dobbs: Remember,
[2:24:04] Bob Dobbs: each quadrant is a holeopathic,
[2:24:06] Bob Dobbs: you know,
[2:24:07] Bob Dobbs: the first quadrant is radio slash satellite.
[2:24:10] Bob Dobbs: McLuhan is holeopathic TV because the hologram created by the global theater in the 60s keeps getting miniaturized and more powerful and
[2:24:19] Bob Dobbs: the law of etherealization.
[2:24:22] Bob Dobbs: So I put together hologram and homeopathy to create the word holeopathic.
[2:24:29] Bob Dobbs: So Kroker,
[2:24:31] Bob Dobbs: I have subatomic particles in there for each,
[2:24:34] Bob Dobbs: another variation from another discipline of defining this increasingly disappeared situation because that was my anthem,
[2:24:41] Bob Dobbs: everything's disappeared,
[2:24:42] Bob Dobbs: back in C.K.
[2:24:43] Bob Dobbs: Lennon in the 80s,
[2:24:44] Bob Dobbs: 40 years ago.
[2:24:45] Bob Dobbs: So we intensify extending the disappearance and Kroker picked up on that.
[2:24:52] Bob Dobbs: He says back there,
[2:24:54] Bob Dobbs: the disappeared situation.
[2:24:56] Bob Dobbs: And he's saying this,
[2:24:58] Bob Dobbs: I don't know if he,
[2:24:59] Bob Dobbs: when he was,
[2:25:01] Bob Dobbs: what was his name?
[2:25:02] Bob Dobbs: Bruce Powe had a conference on McLuhan in 97 at York.
[2:25:08] Bob Dobbs: And
[2:25:11] Bob Dobbs: Neil Postman and Kroker were scheduled to end off the conference with a debate.
[2:25:16] Bob Dobbs: They decided not to do it.
[2:25:17] Bob Dobbs: But I discussed this with Kroker.
[2:25:19] Bob Dobbs: at David Cook's house,
[2:25:21] Bob Dobbs: his best friend and colleague,
[2:25:23] Bob Dobbs: the night before.
[2:25:25] Bob Dobbs: I might have said that before,
[2:25:26] Bob Dobbs: but let's not go into it.
[2:25:27] Bob Dobbs: But the point is,
[2:25:31] Bob Dobbs: when Kroker was doing his talk before the debate,
[2:25:34] Bob Dobbs: I said,
[2:25:36] Bob Dobbs: take some themes from Baudrillard and make a tetrad out of them.
[2:25:42] Bob Dobbs: And he says,
[2:25:44] Bob Dobbs: no,
[2:25:44] Bob Dobbs: no,
[2:25:45] Bob Dobbs: no,
[2:25:46] Bob Dobbs: Bob,
[2:25:47] Bob Dobbs: He wouldn't let me go into it.
[2:25:48] Bob Dobbs: and make a question out of it because he didn't want to talk about it.
[2:25:50] Bob Dobbs: He said,
[2:25:50] Bob Dobbs: I'll be talking about that tomorrow.
[2:25:53] Bob Dobbs: So what happened tomorrow came and it didn't have his debate and he didn't say it.
[2:25:58] Bob Dobbs: So that never got said.
[2:25:59] Bob Dobbs: But I think he might have had the dark tetrad in his mind,
[2:26:03] Bob Dobbs: you know,
[2:26:05] Bob Dobbs: 20 years before he wrote it out.
[2:26:07] Bob Dobbs: I'm not sure.
[2:26:09] Bob Dobbs: Maybe he was thinking of it.
[2:26:11] Cameron McEwen: But,
[2:26:12] Bob Dobbs: you know,
[2:26:13] Bob Dobbs: he still had to go through Y2K and 911 and all this stuff.
[2:26:16] Bob Dobbs: So...
[2:26:18] Bob Dobbs: I don't know.
[2:26:18] Bob Dobbs: But anyway,
[2:26:19] Bob Dobbs: those are the thoughts about...
[2:26:20] Bob Dobbs: If I had a chance to talk to him,
[2:26:22] Bob Dobbs: I would ask him about that.
[2:26:24] Bob Dobbs: I'd remind him of my question and why he wouldn't talk about it.
[2:26:27] Bob Dobbs: Is it because that was his new idea to do the dark tetrad,
[2:26:32] Bob Dobbs: and he was among a lot of our McLuhanites,
[2:26:35] Bob Dobbs: so he wasn't going to reveal it.
[2:26:39] Cameron McEwen: Let me ask you a question.
[2:26:43] Cameron McEwen: For the first three arms of the dark tetrad,
[2:26:48] Cameron McEwen: you have holeopathic effects.
[2:26:50] Cameron McEwen: Now,
[2:26:51] Cameron McEwen: am I right that you could also say of all four of the arms of the light tetrad that that is holeopathic effect?
[2:27:04] Cameron McEwen: And you could also say of the fourth arm of the dark tetrad,
[2:27:10] Cameron McEwen: instead of citadel of consciousness,
[2:27:13] Cameron McEwen: you could again say holeopathic effect.
[2:27:16] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[2:27:17] Bob Dobbs: so here's what I did.
[2:27:18] Bob Dobbs: See you next time.
[2:27:19] Bob Dobbs: The first one is radio and LaRouche.
[2:27:24] Bob Dobbs: The second one is
[2:27:25] Bob Dobbs: TV and McLuhan.
[2:27:28] Bob Dobbs: Becoming TV body,
[2:27:29] Bob Dobbs: no longer landscape as ground.
[2:27:32] Bob Dobbs: And then
[2:27:33] Bob Dobbs: Thompson is the computer holeopathic effect.
[2:27:39] Bob Dobbs: Kroker is not,
[2:27:40] Bob Dobbs: I don't use the word holeopathic.
[2:27:43] Bob Dobbs: No,
[2:27:44] Bob Dobbs: no,
[2:27:44] Bob Dobbs: no,
[2:27:44] Bob Dobbs: I do.
[2:27:44] Bob Dobbs: I say holeopathic satellite squared.
[2:27:48] Bob Dobbs: I need to...
[2:27:49] Bob Dobbs: Check that.
[2:27:51] Bob Dobbs: Let me just check my own chart.
[2:27:54] Bob Dobbs: Make sure that I got that right.
[2:28:10] Bob Dobbs: Where
[2:28:11] Bob Dobbs: is it?
[2:28:11] Bob Dobbs: Just a second.
[2:28:28] Bob Dobbs: Here it is.
[2:28:30] Bob Dobbs: So the Kroker Quadrant is called,
[2:28:33] Bob Dobbs: yeah,
[2:28:34] Bob Dobbs: holeopathic is in the fourth level.
[2:28:37] Bob Dobbs: holeopathic satellite squared.
[2:28:40] Bob Dobbs: And then the Dobbs Quadrant,
[2:28:41] Bob Dobbs: the fifth is Anthropomorphic physical.
[2:28:43] Bob Dobbs: So technically the chart has four holeopathics.
[2:28:51] Bob Dobbs: I think
[2:28:52] Bob Dobbs: I dropped it for the Kroker quadrant because I was quoting Kroker,
[2:28:57] Bob Dobbs: so this was his symbol of consciousness.
[2:29:00] Bob Dobbs: I flipped it or didn't make the satellite squared.
[2:29:04] Bob Dobbs: I'm not sure what idiosyncrasy made me drop the holeopathic.
[2:29:09] Bob Dobbs: But you're right,
[2:29:10] Bob Dobbs: the fourth level is holeopathic.
[2:29:12] Bob Dobbs: It's satellite squared,
[2:29:13] Bob Dobbs: which is the co-anesthetic.
[2:29:20] Bob Dobbs: citadel of consciousness.
[2:29:23] Bob Dobbs: So then I say all four features are holeopathic.
[2:29:27] Bob Dobbs: They're all shrinking.
[2:29:29] Bob Dobbs: The retrieval is another kind of disappearance.
[2:29:31] Bob Dobbs: It's abandoned.
[2:29:33] Bob Dobbs: And then the obsolescence is also another kind of disappearance.
[2:29:36] Bob Dobbs: It's substituted.
[2:29:38] Bob Dobbs: Those are his terms.
[2:29:39] Bob Dobbs: They're all disappearances and then what's reversed flips into its opposite.
[2:29:43] Bob Dobbs: It doesn't get disappeared.
[2:29:44] Bob Dobbs: It gets maintained.
[2:29:46] Bob Dobbs: But it's done stubbornly.
[2:29:48] Bob Dobbs: held in place,
[2:29:48] Bob Dobbs: frozen,
[2:29:49] Bob Dobbs: immobilized,
[2:29:50] Bob Dobbs: and cryogenically frozen.
[2:29:51] Bob Dobbs: And that's the citadel of consciousness,
[2:29:53] Bob Dobbs: the thing the media doesn't affect.
[2:29:56] Bob Dobbs: So the citadel of consciousness is an afterthought from the holeopathic satellite effect.
[2:30:06] Bob Dobbs: I may not have thought of that when I made the chart,
[2:30:09] Bob Dobbs: you know,
[2:30:10] Bob Dobbs: 20 years before that.
[2:30:12] Bob Dobbs: And so I stuck in this aspect of what is not being affected by the media.
[2:30:17] Bob Dobbs: which is the AP,
[2:30:20] Bob Dobbs: the thing that is going to say,
[2:30:21] Bob Dobbs: I am not this,
[2:30:24] Bob Dobbs: I'm separate from it.
[2:30:25] Bob Dobbs: And then you make an idealized term for what you are.
[2:30:29] Bob Dobbs: So that's how I explain sizzle of consciousness.
[2:30:32] Bob Dobbs: So you have a mixture of,
[2:30:33] Bob Dobbs: now this is symbolically appropriate because I'm going from the Android meme,
[2:30:37] Bob Dobbs: which is the Tiny Note chart,
[2:30:39] Bob Dobbs: into the tech body.
[2:30:40] Bob Dobbs: So I've got to blur,
[2:30:42] Bob Dobbs: overlay,
[2:30:43] Bob Dobbs: interpenetrate the tech body with the Android meme.
[2:30:47] Bob Dobbs: So maybe that's what evoked the citadel of consciousness.
[2:30:51] Bob Dobbs: So then,
[2:30:52] Bob Dobbs: Kroker continues,
[2:30:55] Bob Dobbs: when the tetrad moves at the speed of darkness,
[2:30:57] Bob Dobbs: what is shut down is the eye of perception that is fundamental to ethical reflection on the future of technology.
[2:31:04] Bob Dobbs: That's a good sentence.
[2:31:06] Bob Dobbs: What substitutes for the closing of the eye of perception is the sightless vision of all the machinery of guided perception of information culture.
[2:31:15] Bob Dobbs: That's being guided by the tech body.
[2:31:17] Bob Dobbs: What has been abandoned is so much galactic digital debris by the twin drives of computation and genomics are those post-human bodies in endless,
[2:31:26] Bob Dobbs: aimless drift.
[2:31:28] Bob Dobbs: as they circulate through the fast loops of cybernetic information.
[2:31:32] Bob Dobbs: Now,
[2:31:32] Bob Dobbs: he has a book called Body Drift,
[2:31:33] Bob Dobbs: so we're talking about the movement of the four or five bodies.
[2:31:38] Bob Dobbs: And what is held in place,
[2:31:40] Bob Dobbs: immobilized,
[2:31:42] Bob Dobbs: is an increasingly specious present that is in equal measure deeply nostalgic for a lost modernism and for the stripping down of just about everything else to accommodate the laws of efficiency,
[2:31:53] Bob Dobbs: connectivity,
[2:31:54] Bob Dobbs: transparency,
[2:31:55] Bob Dobbs: and speed.
[2:31:56] Bob Dobbs: that is at the heart of what Hannah Arendt called the negative being of technological society,
[2:32:01] Bob Dobbs: a technological destiny that can be so deeply seductive because it contains the tangible,
[2:32:07] Bob Dobbs: palpable scent of a death drive in hypermotion.
[2:32:11] Bob Dobbs: Now that statement is genius,
[2:32:12] Bob Dobbs: and I'm genius for fucking noticing it.
[2:32:17] Bob Dobbs: Nobody else,
[2:32:18] Bob Dobbs: you've never seen this sentence before,
[2:32:19] Bob Dobbs: nobody quotes this fucking thing.
[2:32:21] Bob Dobbs: It's a very important para-McLuhan statement.
[2:32:27] Bob Dobbs: He is dealing with the area that McLuhan didn't get to,
[2:32:31] Bob Dobbs: didn't get to experience.
[2:32:33] Bob Dobbs: He might have thought it,
[2:32:35] Bob Dobbs: but not in this fine-tuned detail.
[2:32:40] Bob Dobbs: So it's appropriate we end up with these great quotes from McLuhan to approximate the tech body.
[2:32:47] Bob Dobbs: So I say that's what's been abandoned.
[2:32:49] Bob Dobbs: Those are the different bodies,
[2:32:51] Bob Dobbs: chip body and TV body as they merge.
[2:32:54] Bob Dobbs: They quote Kroker.
[2:32:55] Bob Dobbs: I have so much galactic digital debris by computation in genetics or genomics.
[2:33:00] Bob Dobbs: There are the five bodies in drift,
[2:33:02] Bob Dobbs: quoting his body in drift book.
[2:33:05] Bob Dobbs: The tech body is not all negative.
[2:33:07] Bob Dobbs: I'm glad I said that.
[2:33:08] Bob Dobbs: It includes the positive light tetrad at the top.
[2:33:12] Bob Dobbs: That's quadrophrenia.
[2:33:14] Bob Dobbs: The election,
[2:33:15] Bob Dobbs: if it occurs,
[2:33:16] Bob Dobbs: will not decide anything.
[2:33:18] Bob Dobbs: So this is written before 2020.
[2:33:21] Bob Dobbs: The election,
[2:33:22] Bob Dobbs: if it occurs,
[2:33:22] Bob Dobbs: will not decide anything.
[2:33:24] Bob Dobbs: That happened because
[2:33:26] Bob Dobbs: 50% of the American population said it was fucking rigged.
[2:33:30] Bob Dobbs: Okay?
[2:33:31] Bob Dobbs: The election,
[2:33:31] Bob Dobbs: if it occurs,
[2:33:32] Bob Dobbs: will not decide anything.
[2:33:33] Bob Dobbs: And iON predicted that a few days before the election.
[2:33:37] Bob Dobbs: He said that Trump,
[2:33:38] Bob Dobbs: I said,
[2:33:38] Bob Dobbs: will Trump win?
[2:33:39] Bob Dobbs: No.
[2:33:39] Bob Dobbs: Will Biden win?
[2:33:41] Bob Dobbs: No.
[2:33:42] Bob Dobbs: Well,
[2:33:42] Bob Dobbs: who will win?
[2:33:43] Bob Dobbs: And iON says,
[2:33:45] Bob Dobbs: it'll just be endless argument and screaming,
[2:33:47] Bob Dobbs: yelling,
[2:33:48] Bob Dobbs: no,
[2:33:48] Bob Dobbs: we won.
[2:33:48] Bob Dobbs: No,
[2:33:49] Bob Dobbs: you didn't win,
[2:33:49] Bob Dobbs: you know.
[2:33:50] Bob Dobbs: And that's what happened the last four years.
[2:33:53] Bob Dobbs: memes will remain tribally frozen both outcomes will be contested so then i say memes will remain tribally frozen which is what the tech body says everybody's going to be frozen in their position be a nice comfortable place
[2:34:11] Bob Dobbs: 178 conclusion let's save that for next time yeah i think we should do that yeah incredible what a fucking conclusion we're coming up to this is
[2:34:22] Bob Dobbs: Don't make sense,
[2:34:23] Bob Dobbs: man.
[2:34:23] Bob Dobbs: Thanks for helping me make sense of this.
[2:34:28] Bob Dobbs: No,
[2:34:29] Bob Dobbs: you could see it,
[2:34:30] Bob Dobbs: right?
[2:34:31] Cameron McEwen: That's right.
[2:34:33] Cameron McEwen: We've gone through a kind of focusing of the pamphlet.
[2:34:41] Cameron McEwen: So at first it was like trying to see something through a microscope and you couldn't make it out.
[2:34:48] Cameron McEwen: And the professor has to come along and say,
[2:34:50] Cameron McEwen: well,
[2:34:51] Cameron McEwen: look at this shape.
[2:34:52] Cameron McEwen: See if you can see that.
[2:34:53] Cameron McEwen: See if you can see this shape.
[2:34:56] Bob Dobbs: Step by step,
[2:34:57] Bob Dobbs: chronologically,
[2:34:57] Bob Dobbs: we see the shapes,
[2:34:58] Bob Dobbs: and then they become mosaic.
[2:34:59] Bob Dobbs: That's it.
[2:35:00] Cameron McEwen: That's right.
[2:35:02] Bob Dobbs: So here we are.
[2:35:03] Bob Dobbs: So you are now changed.
[2:35:06] Bob Dobbs: You will not be able to look at whatever you're looking at there in
[2:35:09] Bob Dobbs: San Diego,
[2:35:10] Bob Dobbs: near there,
[2:35:12] Bob Dobbs: tomorrow morning.
[2:35:13] Bob Dobbs: It's going to be new lenses.
[2:35:16] Cameron McEwen: A new world.
[2:35:17] Bob Dobbs: Yes,
[2:35:18] Bob Dobbs: you're entering a new world.
[2:35:21] Bob Dobbs: A new Rumpelstiltskin position or posture.
[2:35:25] Bob Dobbs: So carry on and we'll see what happens with the conclusion.
[2:35:31] Bob Dobbs: What is that,
[2:35:32] Bob Dobbs: about seven pages?
[2:35:34] Cameron McEwen: It's not very long.
[2:35:35] Cameron McEwen: It looks like the book goes to 186.
[2:35:41] Cameron McEwen: Nine,
[2:35:42] Cameron McEwen: it looks like.
[2:35:42] Bob Dobbs: I think it's 186,
[2:35:45] Bob Dobbs: but here's what's great.
[2:35:46] Bob Dobbs: We end.
[2:35:48] Bob Dobbs: with the Tech Body interview.
[2:35:49] Bob Dobbs: Now,
[2:35:49] Bob Dobbs: didn't we go through that?
[2:35:51] Cameron McEwen: Yes,
[2:35:52] Cameron McEwen: we did it once already.
[2:35:54] Bob Dobbs: Okay,
[2:35:54] Bob Dobbs: it'll be good to see.
[2:35:55] Cameron McEwen: At a certain point,
[2:35:55] Cameron McEwen: we decided to start by going to the end.
[2:35:59] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[2:36:00] Bob Dobbs: so we go back and listen to what we said,
[2:36:02] Bob Dobbs: but you watch.
[2:36:03] Bob Dobbs: It'll be a lot clearer.
[2:36:07] Bob Dobbs: It's very amazing.
[2:36:09] Bob Dobbs: This is a transcript of what the Tech Body spoke through iON.
[2:36:15] Bob Dobbs: So,
[2:36:16] Bob Dobbs: awesome.
[2:36:18] Bob Dobbs: Who's ever following has to be impressed.
[2:36:23] Bob Dobbs: We're getting somewhere.
[2:36:25] Bob Dobbs: This is what the media studies,
[2:36:27] Bob Dobbs: cultural studies should be teaching in their damn stupid universities.
[2:36:34] Bob Dobbs: Lisa should be reading material on the curriculum.
[2:36:39] Cameron McEwen: Absolutely.
[2:36:40] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[2:36:41] Bob Dobbs: Thank you.
[2:36:42] Bob Dobbs: All right.
[2:36:43] Bob Dobbs: Excellent.
[2:36:46] Bob Dobbs: Good,
[2:36:46] Cameron McEwen: Bob.
[2:36:47] Bob Dobbs: Have a good week.
[2:36:48] Bob Dobbs: What's next week?
[2:36:51] Bob Dobbs: The
[2:36:52] Bob Dobbs: 21st, Zappa's birthday.
[2:36:53] Bob Dobbs: Good day to complete it.
[2:36:56] Cameron McEwen: All right.
[2:36:57] Cameron McEwen: Sounds good.
[2:36:58] Cameron McEwen: And at 1221,
[2:37:00] Cameron McEwen: that's a reversal,
[2:37:01] Cameron McEwen: right?
[2:37:01] Bob Dobbs: Yeah.
[2:37:02] Cameron McEwen: 1-2-2-1.
[2:37:03] Bob Dobbs: Yep,
[2:37:03] Bob Dobbs: the 22 is lurking once again.
[2:37:05] Bob Dobbs: For me,
[2:37:06] Bob Dobbs: it's 440.
[2:37:07] Bob Dobbs: That's two
[2:37:08] Bob Dobbs: 22s.
[2:37:11] Bob Dobbs: 44 was my address in New York for six years.
[2:37:15] Cameron McEwen: Uh-huh.
[2:37:17] Cameron McEwen: And it's double 22.
[2:37:18] Bob Dobbs: Yeah,
[2:37:19] Bob Dobbs: it was 44 Fordham Street on City Island.
[2:37:22] Bob Dobbs: There's Fordham University.
[2:37:23] Bob Dobbs: See,
[2:37:23] Bob Dobbs: the McLuhan stuff's always lurking.
[2:37:26] Cameron McEwen: Yeah.
[2:37:29] Bob Dobbs: All right.
[2:37:29] Bob Dobbs: That blinding light will be our conclusion.
[2:37:32] Bob Dobbs: I'll talk to you later.
[2:37:35] Bob Dobbs: Okay,
[2:37:35] Bob Dobbs: bye.
[2:37:36] Cameron McEwen: Good,
[2:37:36] Cameron McEwen: good.
[2:37:37] Cameron McEwen: Bye-bye.
[2:37:37] Cameron McEwen: Thanks.
[2:37:38] Bob Dobbs: Yep.