work

Book by Marshall McLuhan and Wilfred Watson, published 1970 . Explores how clichés and archetypes function as media — clichés as unit extensions of man that, when retrieved and quoted by new clichés, become archetypes. In the dialogue it works as a quarry of definitions Bob reads from; start with dialogue 07 for the core cliché→archetype formula.

Across the dialogues

01

Enters via the mirror/recycling passage and Nevitt's "generator of consciousness" gloss → the drama of cognition

From the book (~p. 161) — the mirror is like the mind, capable of recycling all experience.

"he talks about the mirror is like the mind, capable of recycling all experience."
Bob Dobbshedged

Nevitt's ABC of Prophecy (1980) quotes McLuhan's "interplay of cliché-archetype as the generator of consciousness" — which Bob equates to the Drama of Cognition.

"He talks about the interplay of cliché to archetype as the generator of consciousness. He quotes McLuhan saying that. So the interplay of cliché to archetype in that case would be the drama of cognition."
Barrington Nevitt, read by Bob Dobbsreported
03

Its epyllion reading of More's Utopia mapped onto McLuhan's Gutenberg Galaxy / Understanding Media arc

Bob reads Thomas More's Utopia as an epyllion — Book I treats the medieval environment as art form/anti-environment, Book II explores the present — and maps it onto McLuhan's own arc: Gutenberg Galaxy = Book I, Understanding Media = Book II.

"Book I regards the medieval period as art form… Book II is exploring the present to hoik up the values of the past… two aspects of the epyllion of More's Utopia."
Bob Dobbsasserted
04

Dated to its appearance

Bob places the book's appearance around 1971 (it was published in 1970).

"Cliché to Archetype comes out in 71."
Bob Dobbsasserted
05

Read as McLuhan going beyond Jung, with the impetus traced to Joyce

In the book, McLuhan pushes past Jung's archetypes — an impetus Bob traces to Joyce's own attempt to go deeper than Jung.

"McLuhan is going beyond Jung as he tries to show in From Cliché to Archetype… he got the impetus to go past Jung from Joyce's attempt to go past Jung."
Bob Dobbsasserted
07

The core cliché→archetype definition — an archetype as a quoted extension — and Cameron's "translation of my translation"

The book's core definition — an archetype is a retrieved cliché; since a cliché is a unit extension of man, an archetype is a quoted extension (a medium, technology, anti-environment).

"The archetype is a retrieved awareness or consciousness… It is consequently a retrieved cliché… Since a cliché is a unit extension of man, an archetype is a quoted extension."
Marshall McLuhan, read by Bob Dobbsreported

After Bob reads out the archetype definition, Cameron answers that Bob's gloss is a translation of his own translation — the book's terms passing through two readers.

"what you just said is a translation… of my translation."
Cameron McEwenasserted
19

Mined for a single phrase — "national plenary awareness" (p.136) — that Bob turns into his springboard for the Canadian character and its "quadrophrenia"

From p.136 Bob lifts McLuhan's "national plenary awareness" — "a phrase that gives a sense of mastery" — and asks what Canada's would be, the question that launches his account of Canadian "quadrophrenia."

"he talks about the eight examples of national plenary awareness."
Bob Dobbsasserted
21

Weighed against Understanding Media — Bob calls it the more important book for grasping McLuhan's method of erasing every cliché into a retrieved archetype, Cameron judging it "not a very successful book"

Bob rates the book above Understanding Media for grasping McLuhan's method; Cameron counters it was "not a very successful book," though what it should have said "is very important."

"that's the importance of the book from Cliché to Archetype... way more important than understanding media, to understand what was going on in that book."
Bob Dobbscontested
23

Dissolved from a book's definition into the bare principle of reversal — McLuhan's own habit of flipping the formula read as fidelity to the power of reversal itself, not carelessness

Cameron lifts the book's flip into a law of perception — the cliché↔archetype reversibility is of a kind with ground, "essential," "built into what humans are," so McLuhan's shrug ("I may have got that backwards") reads as loyalty to the reversal itself over either term.

"the reversibility of cliché and archetype is like the reversibility of figure and ground."
Cameron McEwenasserted
25

Read for its Joyce passage — the p.163 "narcissist's looking glass" and the "mirror… becomes a wheel" that models the hero dissolving into the corporate self, alongside its p.136 inventory of cultural biases behind the global identity crisis

The book's p.163 mirror passage becomes the dialogue's figure for the dissolved self — Joyce moving "from the private Stephen Dedalus to the Finnegans Wake corporate image," the mirror "like the mind… becomes a wheel… able to retrieve all experience," which Bob sets against the still-heroic Ulysses.

"Like Alice, Joyce pushed all the way through the narcissist's looking glass."
Marshall McLuhan, read by Bob Dobbsreported
31

Read autobiographically — the 1970 book's own year is when McLuhan "became an archetype," obsolescent and Order-of-Canada'd, the cliché-to-archetype passage turned on its author

Bob reads the 1970 book as self-description — the year of its publication is the year McLuhan passed into obsolescence and honored irrelevance (the Order of Canada), so the movement it names is enacted on the author himself.

"that is exactly when McLuhan became an archetype."
Bob Dobbsasserted
44

Sourced to Gossage and set turning — the book named a distillation of Howard Gossage's last word → cliché → art form → archetype, which Bob maps onto the trivium and the quadrivium and sets spinning in "cyclic simultaneity"

Bob names the book a distillation of the Gossage passage in Hot and Cool — the source of his four-phase pattern (last word → cliché → art form → archetype) for tracking whether something is yet an archetype.

"I recognize it's a distillation of the Gossage quote."
Bob Dobbsasserted

Bob maps the book's four phases onto the Trivium and Quadrivium — the last word "rhetorical," the cliché "dialectical" (Hegelian resistance), the art form "grammatical" (metonymy, retrieval), and the archetype the Quadrivium itself "in cyclic simultaneity."

"So I have here the last word is rhetorical. Action of the new effects immediately persuasive. Then the cliché is the dialectical action of resistance to the effects, and that's Hegelian, relatively ignored. Then the art form of retrieval is grammatical action of the effects as metonymy, searching for origins or for new images of culture heroes, which could be people ransacking the planet for that. Then the archetype... is the musical, geometrical, astronomical, and arithmetical, all of them, all aspects of the quadrivium, action of the effects in cyclic simultaneity."
Bob Dobbsasserted
47

Its pages 12–13 worked as the session's keynote — the Sputnik/proscenium-arch passage read as a diagnosis of surveillance, espionage becomes the basis of wealth and the snooping that anesthetizes making tranquilizers the largest business

The pages 12–13 keynote — with Sputnik the globe framed "in a proscenium arch" and the village turned to theater, espionage becomes the world's main business and secrecy the basis of wealth, the book read now as a diagnosis of surveillance capitalism.

"As the main business of the world becomes espionage, secrecy becomes the basis of wealth, as with magic in a tribal society."
Marshall McLuhan, read by Bob Dobbsreported

The passage's twist — the universal snooping is itself the anesthetic, so "tranquilizers and co-anesthetic, private and corporate, become the largest business in the world just as the world is attempting to maximize every form of alert."

"It is just when people are all engaged in snooping on themselves and one another that they become anesthetized to the whole process."
Marshall McLuhan, read by Bob Dobbsreported
51

Cameron drives the flip to its root — because popular culture is cliché and popular culture can become archetype, cliché can become archetype, and once that holds, figure and ground are reversible, a reversibility that "calls into question identity… religion… everything… what a question is."

"That means that figure and ground are reversible."
Cameron McEwenasserted
54

The book's archetype/cliché split read as literate vs tribal — stable "contained things" against improvised, slanged probes — and corrected by Cameron as "only one view" (Frye's), since for McLuhan the archetype "like a ground is inherently reversible"

Dialogue 54 reads the book's split as literate vs tribal — archetypes are the "contained, stable things" literate people make, while clichés are the improvised, slanged, ever-moving probes of tribal people; Cameron corrects this as "only one view," the Frye view, since "for McLuhan, an archetype like a ground is inherently reversible."

"Archetypes are what literate people come up with."
Bob Dobbsasserted
64

Dating the passage does the interpretive work — once the book is placed in the same year as the Rolling Stone talk and the two letters, "private awareness" stops being generic and becomes the specific term McLuhan was developing that year.

"And 1970 is where the quotes are about pre-tribal awareness."
Cameron McEwenasserted
65

One sentence from page 200 carries the whole session — "a close liaison between private and corporate awareness" is read as McLuhan's own formulation of the pre-tribal problem, with Coleridge's two imaginations named in the lines just before it

The book supplies the session's hinge sentence, and its two nouns are mapped onto the pre-tribal and the tribal — the private pole being what McLuhan otherwise leaves unnamed.

"on 131, where we're going to begin, the quote you have from Cliché to Archetype, he says, a close liaison between private and corporate awareness."
Cameron McEwenasserted

The passage carries its own gloss — McLuhan hands the reader Coleridge as the key to the sentence, which makes the private pole a faculty rather than a mood.

"prior to the liaison between private and corporate awareness, he says that it's somewhat along the lines that relate Coleridge's primary and secondary imagination."
Cameron McEwenasserted

The book's title relation is restated at the level of the whole of experience — the archetype is the originary structure and every cliché is one of its expressions.

"it's the archetypal formula that only gets expressed in clichés."
Cameron McEwenasserted
66

The page-130 passage is worked sentence by sentence to its end, and the third sentence — 'a close liaison between private and corporate awareness' — turns out to state the whole private/corporate problem the series has been circling

The first of the page-130 sentences, and the one that sets the method — art is not expression but the retracing of the route perception already took.

"The expressionists had discovered that the creative process is a kind of repetition of the stages of apprehension."
Marshall McLuhan, read by Cameron McEwenreported

The second sentence, and the pivot — what consciousness does in forming itself is audible throughout the unconscious, which is what makes a science of the whole process conceivable.

"He says that in the same way there would seem to be an echo of the formative process of consciousness in the entire content of the unconscious."
Marshall McLuhan, read by Cameron McEwenreported

The third sentence states the series' governing pair outright, which is why Cameron has been steering toward it for several sessions.

"this in turn implies a close liaison between private and corporate awareness."
Marshall McLuhan, read by Cameron McEwenreported

The clause Bob supplies from the page makes the liaison a variable rather than a balance — how much the private and the corporate weigh on each other is itself a function of how much is understood about the exchange.

"though which exerts the most effect on the other may depend entirely on the degree of awareness achieved."
Marshall McLuhan, read by Bob Dobbsreported

The stake in the third sentence — if the ratio between private and corporate turns on awareness, then history is not something that happens to the pair but something their awareness settles.

"the genesis of history depends upon the kind of awareness that we have on that process."
Cameron McEwenasserted

The Gutenberg Galaxy is derived rather than described — it is what you get when the permanent option of ignoring the ground is taken up and made efficient.

"one of the possibilities in ground is that ground be forgotten."
Cameron McEwenasserted
67

The book stops supplying the session's text and starts supplying its vocabulary — 'knowing and growing' lifted from it as a name for the dialectic of discovery, and Nevitt's reading of it as the mechanism of consciousness itself brought in as the series' closing proposition

A phrase is lifted out of the book to name something the dialogue had just arrived at independently, which is the series' characteristic move: the text supplies terminology for a discovery already made.

"here's two words in a Cliché to Archetype, knowing and growing."
Bob Dobbsasserted

Relayed from Nevitt, this converts the book's title pair from a pattern of cultural change into a physiological mechanism — consciousness as the acceleration of that cycle.

"Barry Nevitt says in his book ABC of Prophecy, Marshall McLuhan foresees that consciousness, consciousness in quotes, will prove to be an effect of speeding up Cliché to Archetype processes in the brain."
Barrington Nevitt, read by Bob Dobbsreported

The refusal that keeps the two frameworks distinct — the book's pair and the series' own pair look parallel but are not the same mapping, and collapsing them would lose the priority of the pre-tribal.

"A cliché to archetype is not isomorphic with pre-tribal awareness and tribal awareness."
Cameron McEwencontested
71

The book's central device is taken over rather than cited — the cliché probe is carried across into Bob's own vocabulary and given a shrinking modifier, so the borrowing becomes an extension with a new name attached

The book's method restated as something McLuhan performed rather than described — the probe is identified with his own practice of picking up an obsolete form and working with it, which is what makes it available to be inherited.

"And so that's taking old media and retrieving them like he took the book or Finnegans Wake and used it as a cliche probe."
Bob Dobbsasserted

The moment of annexation — the book's term keeps its structure but acquires Bob's modifier, so what McLuhan used on single works is generalized to a whole environment in the act of shrinking.

"And that's what I call that holeopathic cliche probe."
Bob Dobbsasserted
72

Turned from a book about two terms into the source of the session's missing word — the hunt for something that would mean what "meme" means ends inside its pages

The search that produced the session's central find — Bob needed a word his own coinage could be translated into, and went looking in McLuhan rather than inventing one.

"how do I make holeopathic cliché probe have the same meaning as meme? Oh, module, yeah, McLuhan's got that and From Cliché to Archetype."
Bob Dobbsasserted

The equation stated flat: McLuhan had the word decades early, so the digital meme is not a new phenomenon needing a new vocabulary but a mini-module already described in 1970.

"module is McLuhan's term for meme."
Bob Dobbsasserted

The two page references — 152 and 155 — that carry the argument: social consciousness as scrapping, retrieving and probing, and the outer/inner trip division of the two kinds of cliché probe.

"So they are from Cliché to Archetype, 1970, page 152 and 155."
Bob Dobbsasserted
73

Mined for the mini-module rather than the cliché-archetype pair — the book becomes the source of a unit small enough to run from ad copy to the modes of consciousness

The book yields the unit Bob has been hunting — a module that recurs at every scale, which is what lets advertising's rippling repetition and the structure of consciousness be described in the same terms.

"the rippling repetition of profiles is an accessible example of the mini-module that is found in every electric structure, from space capsule to the modes of consciousness."
Marshall McLuhan, read by Bob Dobbsreported

Connections

1970 book, co-authored with Wilfred Watson.

written byWilfred Watson

McLuhan's co-author on the book.

Nevitt glosses the "interplay of cliché-archetype as the generator of consciousness," which Bob equates to the drama of cognition.

connects toFinnegans Wake

Bob reads the book's move past Jung as taking its impetus from Joyce's attempt to go deeper than Jung.

Cameron declares the cliché↔archetype flip "like the reversibility of figure and ground" — the paradigm case of a reversal "built into what humans are."

Nevitt's ABC of Prophecy quotes McLuhan on the interplay of cliché and archetype as "the generator of consciousness."

connects toHoward Gossage

Bob's bottom-up chart draws on a Gossage line — last word → cliché → art form → archetype through use.

connects toWilfred Watson

Co-wrote From Cliché to Archetype with McLuhan.